All of us are of an age to remember the rioting of yore, who suffered the most, and the "restoration" of law and order.. Today's WashPost has this story about Minneapolis
Yes, Who he!! Are there any wise public persons around who remember? Am taking some encouragement from Biden's not jumping on the police-defund band wagon. Is that because advisors have not decided yet? Or does he remember?
Of course, something must be done, will be done. But someone, many someones, have to propose and get passed, 1. real reforms and 2. doable reforms; 3. that truly protect black communities and that out fox, outsmart the anyone's looking to either 1. maintain the status quo or 2. see chaos in their cultural, business, or political interest.
Here in Ohio Governor DeWine has proposed eliminating police investigating themselves or being investigated by authorities who have conflicting interests such as prosecutors who depend upon police work. There are plenty of competent investigative units around the state they can do investigations on a one time basis without conflicting interests.
Another is making the police into a profession just like doctors and lawyers with required standards that other fellow professionals help to reinforce. Right now police who are fired or otherwise let go often end up as police in other jurisdiction. If they were a profession that would lose their license to be a police officer. Right now you have to convict a policeman of a felony to make sure he does not continue to be an officer somewhere.
He argues all these are common sense, have been around for a long time and just need to be put into law.
I do think that funds need to go from the police to other professionals who have the require expertise to be able to deal with mental illness, addiction, etc. While additional training in all these things is desirable, the nature of things is such that calling the police escalates conflict.
Analysis of where the time of police is used indicates that only a very small amount of time is spent upon cases that involve major threats to people or property.
So we do need to shift funds from police to other types of workers, and get police out of doing a lot things for which they are not needed. Police unions obviously will not like this since they would have reduced membership
Has Governor DeWine, who's looks to be the country's sane Republican governor, tried his ideas out on the State Legislature? Won't there have to be a change in laws and regulations as well as official designation of any investigative body that would look into police actions? He needs a coalition of interested parties backing him.
What I fear is that those against reform, or suspicious, or lukewarm are the established parties ...police, politicians, white communities (and home-owning black communities), who may not be thrilled by all police behavior and favor some reforms, but when push comes to shove, will support the devil they know....
Those who say they want reform are all over the map with a long list of complaints. The media gives them voice, but not much scrutiny or many questions about how, what, who.
AND in a land with millions of gun owners, disarming the police (which is on the reformers agenda) may not attract a lot of votes in city councils and state legislatures.
I'll admit I'm not comfortable with the "don't call the cops" advice. I'd say, don't call them about a POC if you wouldn't call them about a white person. But if you need help that's what they're there for. And about disarming the police, you know good and well the criminals are armed. Which isn't to say the police need military ordnance. In the UK the cops aren't *as* armed as they are here, and it seems to work for them. But neither are the criminals. I like Jack's idea about professional standards, enforced by other professionals.
The Guardian's story yesterday about a knife attack in a Scottish hotel referred to an armed policemAn, suggesting that there is a limit to who on the police force gets a gun...and that most don't---in keeping with the the BBC's and ITV's detective stories!
Doesn't deal with chock holds, but it's something.
DeWine has some good ideas about professionalizing the cops. Disarming them has to be a non-starter thanks to our expensively suited NRA spokesbabbler and his empty-headed posse.
I am afraid good policing will turn out to be more expensive than bad policing, and so will end up being a "place to cut" when tax cuts for the wealthy become necessary, as they will.
Governor was once Attorney General himself. Like with the virus, DeWine was not shy about getting out ahead of this issue. He made it clear that the reforms are not new suggestions, and not particularly his suggestions. The time has come to get them done.
Peggy - this Politico article from a couple of days might be of interest. Subhead: "Activists want to defund the police. Biden won't even legalize pot". A snippet:
"During the primaries, Biden bet everything on winning overwhelming support from African American voters, who eventually reversed the near collapse of his campaign in the first three states.
"Biden’s advisers were often less attentive—and sometimes downright dismissive—of certain obsessions of the social media left. Biden did not discuss white privilege the way Kirsten Gillibrand did. He didn’t endorse reparations or the legalization of marijuana when some of his chief rivals did. He stubbornly insisted that the two most important primary constituencies were political moderates and older working-class African Americans, two groups without much influence online. The Biden campaign’s unspoken primary slogan could have been, “Twitter isn’t real life.”
"This cautiousness and skepticism has spilled into the general election. One way to think of the Biden campaign’s navigation of racial issues is that he and his advisers care a lot more about addressing policy demands than they do about addressing cultural issues.
"“There is a conversation that’s going on on Twitter that they don’t care about,” one Democratic strategist observed. “They won the primary by ignoring all of that. The Biden campaign does not care about the critical race theory-intersectional left that has taken over places like The New York Times. You can be against chokeholds and not believe in white fragility. You can be for reforming police departments and don’t necessarily have to believe that the United States is irredeemably racist.”"
The URL asks, "Will the Democratic Base Still Embrace Him?" I think there are two parts to that answer. The most straightforward one is, The Democratic base *did* embrace him; that is why he has sewn up the nomination. I don't think those were crossover voters or those who usually don't vote who picked Biden; his party has chosen him. The other part of the answer is: as long as Donald Trump has a chance of getting reelected, all liberal (and many independent, and some conservative) voters will be motivated to vote against Trump - and Biden is the only choice in town.
On a personal note, I'll add: I'm more than ready for a president who wishes to ignore Twitter!
Biden's campaign has made a couple of very savvy moves in the last few months. The one at the top of the list is his quick dismissal of proposals to literally defund the police. It came across as sensible, authentic and decisive - i.e., presidential. It reassures people like me who aren't part of the great contest to prove who can be the Most Woke, and who see a legitimate place for good policing in our society.
His veep choice will be revealing. Honestly, I thought he would have anointed Stacey Abrams by now. A news item on our local news station tonight is that Illinois Senator Tammy Duckworth is supposedly "rising". She's an Army veteran who lost both her legs in combat. I expect Biden would genuinely admire her.
He'll need to expose himself to the public at some point. I guess the "virtual convention" will be his coming-out party.
"The Biden campaign does not care about the critical race theory-intersectional left ..."
I don't think any successful presidential candidate has ever cared about such things. Certainly one who hopes to take Pennsylvania and Wisconsin wouldn't.
As for exposing himself (illegal in most states), I am not sure that taking COVID-19 seriously, unlike his opponent, isn't the best thing (next to his opponent) Biden has going for him. McKinley ran a successful campaign from his front porch; they brought voters to him by the trainload. Biden could run a successful campaign from his basement without trains, using Zoom and the like, while his opponent has a huge coronation scene that puts his whole base on ventilators. (I exaggerate, but only slightly._
It's interesting that Tammy Duckworth is a "maybe". I had been thinking that Kamala Harris was most likely. But there is the little matter of the cherry bomb she lobbed at Biden during the debates. It was a worthless one too, since everybody knows they're not going to bring back federally mandated busing. Would it be a problem that Ms. Duckworth was born in Thailand, even though her father was an American citizen working for the UN at the time? (though those types of things seem to be problems only if you're a Democrat, just ask Ted Cruz)
Jim...good points. Maybe being part of a generation lost past its prime, Biden remembers things long forgotten and missed out in the intersectionality epiphany. Or, the phrase "moral clarity" which keeps popping up, and has its place and purpose, but Biden being Catholic may understand how easily moral clarity eases into moral absolute.
John McCain was born in Panama. Ted Cruz was born in Canada. I have two grandsons who are American citizens who were born in Australia. If at least one parent is a US citizen, it doesn't matter where you were born. So Even if Obama had been born in Kenya instead of Hawaii, it wouldn't have mattered. As long as one parent is a US citizen, the child is too from the moment of birth. They do not have to undergo the naturalization process.
I don't have much confidence in any new reforms. I think the police are the way they are because of societal dynamics and economic inequality. Americans believe in punishment and force to solve every problem. And the police deliver. For myself, I avoid them and the justice system as much as possible. If someone breaks into my house, I WILL call the police, not to save me but to bring the chalk. I actually consider them to be rather useless and not of good quality.
Spiro, Where are you?
ReplyDeleteYes, Who he!! Are there any wise public persons around who remember? Am taking some encouragement from Biden's not jumping on the police-defund band wagon. Is that because advisors have not decided yet? Or does he remember?
ReplyDeleteOf course, something must be done, will be done. But someone, many someones, have to propose and get passed,
1. real reforms and 2. doable reforms; 3. that truly protect black communities and that out fox, outsmart the anyone's looking to either 1. maintain the status quo or 2. see chaos in their cultural, business, or political interest.
Has Oprah Winfrey spoken?
Some of the reforms are very obvious.
ReplyDeleteHere in Ohio Governor DeWine has proposed eliminating police investigating themselves or being investigated by authorities who have conflicting interests such as prosecutors who depend upon police work. There are plenty of competent investigative units around the state they can do investigations on a one time basis without conflicting interests.
Another is making the police into a profession just like doctors and lawyers with required standards that other fellow professionals help to reinforce. Right now police who are fired or otherwise let go often end up as police in other jurisdiction. If they were a profession that would lose their license to be a police officer. Right now you have to convict a policeman of a felony to make sure he does not continue to be an officer somewhere.
He argues all these are common sense, have been around for a long time and just need to be put into law.
I do think that funds need to go from the police to other professionals who have the require expertise to be able to deal with mental illness, addiction, etc. While additional training in all these things is desirable, the nature of things is such that calling the police escalates conflict.
Analysis of where the time of police is used indicates that only a very small amount of time is spent upon cases that involve major threats to people or property.
So we do need to shift funds from police to other types of workers, and get police out of doing a lot things for which they are not needed. Police unions obviously will not like this since they would have reduced membership
Has Governor DeWine, who's looks to be the country's sane Republican governor, tried his ideas out on the State Legislature? Won't there have to be a change in laws and regulations as well as official designation of any investigative body that would look into police actions? He needs a coalition of interested parties backing him.
DeleteWhat I fear is that those against reform, or suspicious, or lukewarm are the established parties ...police, politicians, white communities (and home-owning black communities), who may not be thrilled by all police behavior and favor some reforms, but when push comes to shove, will support the devil they know....
Those who say they want reform are all over the map with a long list of complaints. The media gives them voice, but not much scrutiny or many questions about how, what, who.
AND in a land with millions of gun owners, disarming the police (which is on the reformers agenda) may not attract a lot of votes in city councils and state legislatures.
I'll admit I'm not comfortable with the "don't call the cops" advice. I'd say, don't call them about a POC if you wouldn't call them about a white person. But if you need help that's what they're there for.
DeleteAnd about disarming the police, you know good and well the criminals are armed. Which isn't to say the police need military ordnance.
In the UK the cops aren't *as* armed as they are here, and it seems to work for them. But neither are the criminals.
I like Jack's idea about professional standards, enforced by other professionals.
The Guardian's story yesterday about a knife attack in a Scottish hotel referred to an armed policemAn, suggesting that there is a limit to who on the police force gets a gun...and that most don't---in keeping with the the BBC's and ITV's detective stories!
DeleteDoesn't deal with chock holds, but it's something.
DeWine has some good ideas about professionalizing the cops. Disarming them has to be a non-starter thanks to our expensively suited NRA spokesbabbler and his empty-headed posse.
DeleteI am afraid good policing will turn out to be more expensive than bad policing, and so will end up being a "place to cut" when tax cuts for the wealthy become necessary, as they will.
DeWine Press Conference with Attorney General announcing new efforts at meaningful Law Enforcement Reform
ReplyDeleteGovernor was once Attorney General himself. Like with the virus, DeWine was not shy about getting out ahead of this issue. He made it clear that the reforms are not new suggestions, and not particularly his suggestions. The time has come to get them done.
Peggy - this Politico article from a couple of days might be of interest. Subhead: "Activists want to defund the police. Biden won't even legalize pot". A snippet:
ReplyDelete"During the primaries, Biden bet everything on winning overwhelming support from African American voters, who eventually reversed the near collapse of his campaign in the first three states.
"Biden’s advisers were often less attentive—and sometimes downright dismissive—of certain obsessions of the social media left. Biden did not discuss white privilege the way Kirsten Gillibrand did. He didn’t endorse reparations or the legalization of marijuana when some of his chief rivals did. He stubbornly insisted that the two most important primary constituencies were political moderates and older working-class African Americans, two groups without much influence online. The Biden campaign’s unspoken primary slogan could have been, “Twitter isn’t real life.”
"This cautiousness and skepticism has spilled into the general election. One way to think of the Biden campaign’s navigation of racial issues is that he and his advisers care a lot more about addressing policy demands than they do about addressing cultural issues.
"“There is a conversation that’s going on on Twitter that they don’t care about,” one Democratic strategist observed. “They won the primary by ignoring all of that. The Biden campaign does not care about the critical race theory-intersectional left that has taken over places like The New York Times. You can be against chokeholds and not believe in white fragility. You can be for reforming police departments and don’t necessarily have to believe that the United States is irredeemably racist.”"
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/26/joe-biden-refuses-get-woke-will-the-democratic-base-still-embrace-him-340753
The URL asks, "Will the Democratic Base Still Embrace Him?" I think there are two parts to that answer. The most straightforward one is, The Democratic base *did* embrace him; that is why he has sewn up the nomination. I don't think those were crossover voters or those who usually don't vote who picked Biden; his party has chosen him. The other part of the answer is: as long as Donald Trump has a chance of getting reelected, all liberal (and many independent, and some conservative) voters will be motivated to vote against Trump - and Biden is the only choice in town.
On a personal note, I'll add: I'm more than ready for a president who wishes to ignore Twitter!
Biden's campaign has made a couple of very savvy moves in the last few months. The one at the top of the list is his quick dismissal of proposals to literally defund the police. It came across as sensible, authentic and decisive - i.e., presidential. It reassures people like me who aren't part of the great contest to prove who can be the Most Woke, and who see a legitimate place for good policing in our society.
His veep choice will be revealing. Honestly, I thought he would have anointed Stacey Abrams by now. A news item on our local news station tonight is that Illinois Senator Tammy Duckworth is supposedly "rising". She's an Army veteran who lost both her legs in combat. I expect Biden would genuinely admire her.
He'll need to expose himself to the public at some point. I guess the "virtual convention" will be his coming-out party.
"The Biden campaign does not care about the critical race theory-intersectional left ..."
DeleteI don't think any successful presidential candidate has ever cared about such things. Certainly one who hopes to take Pennsylvania and Wisconsin wouldn't.
As for exposing himself (illegal in most states), I am not sure that taking COVID-19 seriously, unlike his opponent, isn't the best thing (next to his opponent) Biden has going for him. McKinley ran a successful campaign from his front porch; they brought voters to him by the trainload. Biden could run a successful campaign from his basement without trains, using Zoom and the like, while his opponent has a huge coronation scene that puts his whole base on ventilators. (I exaggerate, but only slightly._
It's interesting that Tammy Duckworth is a "maybe". I had been thinking that Kamala Harris was most likely. But there is the little matter of the cherry bomb she lobbed at Biden during the debates. It was a worthless one too, since everybody knows they're not going to bring back federally mandated busing.
DeleteWould it be a problem that Ms. Duckworth was born in Thailand, even though her father was an American citizen working for the UN at the time? (though those types of things seem to be problems only if you're a Democrat, just ask Ted Cruz)
Jim...good points. Maybe being part of a generation lost past its prime, Biden remembers things long forgotten and missed out in the intersectionality epiphany. Or, the phrase "moral clarity" which keeps popping up, and has its place and purpose, but Biden being Catholic may understand how easily moral clarity eases into moral absolute.
DeleteCorrection: "long past"
DeleteJohn McCain was born in Panama. Ted Cruz was born in Canada. I have two grandsons who are American citizens who were born in Australia. If at least one parent is a US citizen, it doesn't matter where you were born. So Even if Obama had been born in Kenya instead of Hawaii, it wouldn't have mattered. As long as one parent is a US citizen, the child is too from the moment of birth. They do not have to undergo the naturalization process.
DeleteAnne, yeah. The whole "birther" controversy was a hoax from beginning to end. But Trump certainly got a lot of mileage out of it.
DeleteI don't have much confidence in any new reforms. I think the police are the way they are because of societal dynamics and economic inequality. Americans believe in punishment and force to solve every problem. And the police deliver.
ReplyDeleteFor myself, I avoid them and the justice system as much as possible. If someone breaks into my house, I WILL call the police, not to save me but to bring the chalk. I actually consider them to be rather useless and not of good quality.