There are certain phenomena I see over and over again living here in the Old Folks Home. I asked ChatGPT to help me understand some of them, and I thought the response might be of interest to others. Here's my question and ChatGPT's response.
My Question
ChatGPT's Response
Yes. What you are describing is quite plausible in people with mild or moderate cognitive impairment, and one of the most striking things about memory disorders is precisely their unevenness. A person can seem perfectly lucid in conversation, remember many facts, recognize everyone around them, and yet repeatedly fail at something as seemingly simple as remembering whether they ate dinner an hour ago.
The key is that "memory" isn't a single mental faculty. Different systems handle different kinds of remembering. Someone may retain old memories, vocabulary, social skills, familiar routines, and recognition of people remarkably well while having much more difficulty forming and retrieving memories of recent events. Eating dinner at 5:00 is an event that has to be encoded as something like, "I ate tonight's dinner about 45 minutes ago." If that memory doesn't get firmly encoded, then at 6:00 there may simply be no accessible memory of having eaten.
And there is another complication in your situation: routine can actually make the problem worse. Eating in the same dining room three times a day, every day, makes individual meals rather indistinct. The person may have a perfectly good general memory—"I eat dinner downstairs at my assigned table"—without retaining the episodic memory—"I already did that today."
That could explain the missing tablemates too. You might think, "Something is obviously wrong: nobody I normally eat with is here." But noticing that requires several mental steps: recognizing the situation, remembering who normally sits there, realizing their absence is significant, and then using that discrepancy to reconsider the belief that it is time for dinner. A person with cognitive impairment may still possess all the individual pieces of information but have trouble putting them together spontaneously.
The anger is particularly interesting. Imagine, from the person's subjective point of view, that you know it is dinnertime and you know you haven't eaten. Someone then tells you, "You already had dinner." If you have no memory whatsoever of eating it, that statement may sound absurd or even insulting. It could seem as though the staff are refusing to feed you and making up an excuse. Anger would make sense from within that person's experience.
On another day, the same person might respond, "Oh! I did? All right." That variation doesn't necessarily mean they remembered on one occasion and were pretending on another. Cognitive performance can fluctuate with fatigue, attention, stress, medication, time of day, sleep, and many other factors. A reminder may sometimes trigger a weak memory—"Oh yes, now I remember the chicken"—whereas at another time nothing comes back.
Your idea about a note-taking device
It's a very sensible idea, and external memory aids are indeed used for people with memory impairment: calendars, notebooks, whiteboards, clocks, checklists, signs, and electronic reminders.
But there is a catch. To use a note saying "Dinner eaten: 5:00 PM", the person has to remember several things: that the note exists, where it is, that they should consult it when uncertain, and that what it says is more reliable than their own strong feeling that they haven't eaten.
That last part can be surprisingly difficult.
A simpler environmental cue might work better—for example, a prominent card in the person's room that staff change after each meal:
DINNER — FINISHED ✓
Tuesday, August 11 — 5:00 PM
Even that will work much better for some people than others. In early cognitive impairment, people can often learn to rely on such aids. Later on, the ability to use the aid itself may deteriorate.
There's also an important distinction between recognition and recall. Someone might not be able to answer, "What did you have for dinner?" but, when shown a card saying "You had chicken and potatoes at 5:00," might say, "Oh yes!" That suggests that some trace of the memory exists but isn't easily retrieved without a cue.
What you are observing is actually one of the reasons dementia can be hard to recognize casually. We tend to judge someone's mental state by conversation. Language, manners, humor, personality, and knowledge accumulated over a lifetime can remain quite impressive even when certain kinds of recent memory and executive functioning have deteriorated considerably.
So your impression—"This person doesn't seem very impaired; how can they possibly forget something that happened an hour ago?"—isn't contradictory. That patchiness is characteristic of several kinds of cognitive impairment.
One other possibility is worth mentioning. In some people, the problem isn't purely memory. There can also be difficulty with time orientation. They may know perfectly well that dinner is at 5 or 6 but have trouble placing themselves correctly within the day's sequence. "It's dinner time" may be much more salient to them than "I have already completed today's dinner." Repetitive daily schedules can make yesterday's dinner, today's dinner, and the expectation of the next dinner surprisingly difficult to keep separated.
Your question—"What goes on in their heads?"—is especially interesting. We obviously can't know exactly, but researchers have learned quite a lot about the subjective experience of memory loss. If you'd like, I can try to describe what an episode like this might actually feel like from the inside, including why a person can be absolutely convinced they haven't eaten even though everyone around them knows they have.
That is a strikingly clear and coherent response. I only hope it is accurate!
ReplyDeleteIt's also quite empathetic toward people experiencing one of the types of impairment it describes. (I am wondering if you frequently interact with ChatGPT; it may have already worked out that you are a naturally empathetic person and so is "leaning into" that trait in tailoring its response to you.)
I guess, if I were a psychologist whose job involves explaining such things to the public, I'd feel job-threatened!
My memory is pretty good for most things. But it is terrible for short term things, especially if I get distracted on my way to doing them. Sometimes I get worried that I am going to get dementia, and look up online cognitive tests to see how I'm doing. And I do well except for the kind of question where they list three unrelated words, and then several questions later you have to remember them. My strategy is to think of the mind as a file cabinet. The top drawer is shallow and full, things fall out. So I put the words in a different drawer by making a sentence out of them, even if it is kind of weird. It seems to work for recalling them.
ReplyDeleteI often put a sticky note on the bathroom mirror the day before an appointment, or something I promised to do, just so I don't forget..
During the last few months of my dad's life he would "sundown", get his days and night mixed up. And he had a clock that said am or pm. But that didn't seem to help. He lived to be 93 and did pretty well for most of it.
I was reading an article this morning that said it helps cognitive function to practice doing things with your non dominant hand. Everything I read says something about the importance of quality sleep, which is easier said than done.
We lived in an assisted living/ memory care facility in California for three months.Advanced memory care residents lived in a special locked wing with their own dining room. People with milder memory issues lived in the assisted living area. Meals were 7-9 am, 11-1 pm and 5-7 pm. As long as you were there by the end time like 7 pm for dinner you would be served. Because of my hearing loss we went late to meals when the dining room was quieter. I couldn’t understand many people we ate with unless the dining room was mostly empty. We did eat regularly with a woman who was very lively and in good physical condition. But we quickly learned that she would forget our names and where we were from every time we ate with her, often from the beginning of the meal to the end. She asked our names and where we were from at least twice every meal I suppose by having open seating during a two hour window the problems some of the residents in the NY facility have wouldn’t matter. They might not even be noticed by most of the other residents.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, if the doctor asks if you brought anyone with you to your appointment, it may be a flag that they don't think you're tracking. My parents' doctors both had the nurse come and get me from the waiting room to sit in on their appts. Raber has some trouble remembering what the doctor said.
ReplyDeleteAll of us here are over 70 except Jim. Some days you feel as sharp as you were at 25, making connections, remembering names, retaining details of what you read. Other days you feel forgetful and sluggish. A lot of different things can drag down sharpness--stress, poor sleep, meds, lack of exercise, tiresome company, too much TV or screen time, alcohol, etc.
ReplyDeleteBut some of it seems to just come and go.
I don't think there's much you can do to control mental or physical aging. How fast your mind and body age boils down to good genes, even temperament, avoidance of hard labor and exposure to hazardous materials, and ready access to good health care since childhood.
But we live in America, the land of toxic positivity, so everybody's flogging you to improve constantly whether it's really possible or not.
Jean, I think you are likely right that there isn't that much we can do to control physical or mental aging. There are things like substance abuse that can influence it in a bad way, but in the end time does its thing, even if we pursue good habits.
DeleteMy criteria for whether I do mental or physical exercises is whether I enjoy them or not. I enjoy walking outside. I don't enjoy working out in a gym. I tried the free version of Luminosity for awhile and decided I didn't like it. I do like doing word puzzles like Wordle, but I don't see the point of Soduku. I like doing art, but hate doing yard work. Probably none of it does anything to preserve my mental acuity.
I enjoy knitting. It may not be doing anything for my brain, but I like the "engineering" that goes into things and seeing the final thing emerge. Unfirtunately, AI is now being used to generate patterns that are full of errors (someone in my knitting group knits these things exactly as written to show how bad they are). The upshot is an interest in historic knitting from WWII and earlier. And what woman couldn't use a few extra snoods for bad hair days???
DeleteI read an article yesterday about reducing the Alzheimer’s odds. Knitting was recommended along with puzzles, dancing, learning a musical instrument, and studying a foreign language, in addition to the usual diet, exercise and social contacts ( of which we have almost none these days)
DeleteThe articles always tell you to have a social network, but that's easier said than done, especially if, like you, you are caring for someone homebound. I have pushed Raber to do more things on his own in recent years. He seems to need more social outlets than me and has developed a little circle of friends he hangs out with a few days per week. More than a couple of get-togethers per month wears me out.
DeleteAs we have aged, many friends and family have disappeared from our daily lives. Many have died, and some move away. I imagine this is more true for us than for others, who are more rooted in your original home states. The DC area has always had a lot of turnover, partly because people who work here are often in temporary jobs - they are K Street lobbyists, or military—there are lots of military in DC, lots of embassy staff, lots of people who work for think tanks, and political organizations, and politicians; people who work for the administration, on the Hill (and move in or out with the election cycle). Lots corporations with outposts here (also in order to lobby) move their staff around every three years or so. But many stay after their assignments are up, often moving from the government sector to private because Washington DC is really a great city to live in or near, offering an amazing quality of life. (the man in the WH actually knows nothing about this city he’s constantly disparaging and yet trying to brand as his own). Many move back to where they came from when aging, to be near family. Some move to the sunbelt to escape cold and snow. Social connections shrink to a precious few. I now have more long- time friends in California after almost 60 years away than I do here. My husband grew up here, but at 85, has also lost almost all his friends of his lifetime here. His younger sister is in Annapolis, but that’s it for family. Making new friends at our age is a challenge, and is impossible for me with my hearing loss. Social connections are not going to save us.
DeleteKatherine—“Everything I read says something about the importance of quality sleep, which is easier said than done.”
ReplyDeleteThat’s for sure. I think stress and loss of sleep play a big, big role in memory. Until Sept 23, 2023, I didn’t have problems remembering what I needed to remember. No lists, no sticky notes. Then I experienced non- stop stress and anxiety for a solId year. I had to keep track of about 4 appointments/week for my husband’s medical and rehab in San Jose, driving him all over a city that I didn’t know. Then ten appointments for me added for cataract surgery over a couple of months. . My son set up a Google Calendar for me. I resisted it at first, but now I depend on it. The stress and anxiety improved after.we got home. I remember that I actually laughed at something about three months after getting home and realized it was the first time I had laughed in 15 months or so. But still very stressed and anxious with a long, slow improvement in that for me. . A good night’s sleep now is much like after having a baby. There is no good nights sleep now like then, but I’m 79 not in my 30s so I’m exhausted all the time. . . I wake up every three hours automatically and check my phone to be sure my husband on the first floor hasn’t called me for some kind of help when I’m asleep upstairs. I leave it under the pillow because the vibration works better to alert me to a call. Can’t hear my phone without hearing aids and I can’t sleep with them on. My husband still has lots of appointments and since my second round of cancer, I have also had a lot of medical appointments. I whip out my ipad now standing at the desks of the various medical places we visit regularly and enter the new appointment standing there.. I can instantly see all of them to slot in new ones, and when I forget at home, they’re there. The calendar also sends me reminder emails 24 hours in advance and the morning of appointments. I can’t keep track otherwise. My husband starts another 8 weeks of rehab at the end of the month, twice/ week. . Each is two hours plus 1 1/2 hours RT drive time. So scheduling all the other appointments around the rehab is a challenge. The Google Calendar on my iPad is my memory now.
At age 84 I have been aware of some “cognitive problems” ever since my balance problem appeared at age 68.
ReplyDeleteThe balance problem itself could be considered a cognitive problem since sensations of balance & imbalance result from the brain integrating inner ear sensations with visual information and feedback from the muscular system. I found that by using a walking stick, which provides extra information about my position through my arms, my brain could safely ignore the sensations of imbalance coming from my feet.
However, I could no longer walk over 3mph on the treadmill, nor use it at a large incline. Since my sixties I had been able to exercise on the treadmill for over half an hour, getting my heart rate up to 120bpm for at least half that time. Every time my cardiologist did a stress test I had done better.
I had an extensive evaluation at the Cleveland Clinic that determined that while I had mild cognitive impairment, I did not have anything like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s. The most they could identify was a very subtle problem with cognitive-motor coordination that was probably there since childhood. I always had trouble playing sports.
We found that by increasing my ability to use the treadmill, that the mild cognitive impairment went away, possibility because of my greater ability to multitask. Betty has noticed that my cognitive ability deteriorates when I don’t do my steps regularly. Early on it took several weeks to deteriorate, now it takes only days.
As for age, I like Jean's notion that we keep a lot of our abilities, it is only that we can no longer use them at peak performance for as many hours as we used to do. In my fifties and even sixties, I was able to put in the equivalent of a sixteen-hour workday. Now I doubt whether I could put in an eight-hour workday even spread over 16 hours of being awake.
Betty who has many more health problems can only put in about a four- hour workday that requires standing and moving about. She can do about a six-hour workday of art setting at a desk and maybe an eight-hour day of educational videos about artwork.
Likewise, while I have difficulty doing eight hours or yardwork, walking, etc. a day, I can probably do ten or twelve hours if I include computer work.
Both of us have discovered that we have to be careful not to overdo things. We thought that we would be able to return to church in Covid free months but going to church for one hour is just exhausting in comparison to spending several hours watching Masses on the internet. My hearing has begun to deteriorate so that it makes no sense to go to church for a homily and prayers that I have difficulty hearing when that is no problem with the excellent sound systems on the internet.
I think combining audio-visual stimulation on the internet with regular but reduced physical activity offers the most promise. The key to both however is quality. If you end up with a lot of uninteresting physical and mental activity it is not going to work.
I agree that a lot of the problems of aging are very subtle, and not easy to deal with.
"In my fifties and even sixties, I was able to put in the equivalent of a sixteen-hour workday. Now I doubt whether I could put in an eight-hour workday even spread over 16 hours of being awake."
DeleteWe had a conversation in my cancer group about this exact thing: How many consecutive hours per day could you do the job you did before you got cancer?
It's a better measure of fatigue/stamina than those "rate your fatigue from 1-10 using these smiley faces" charts.
I can put in 8 hours of physical work but I’m usually tired through the next day so I guess 4 hours per day is the real limit.
DeleteI do still work a full day every workday. That said, I get sleepy sometime after lunch, and if I have a particularly unstimulating task at work (e.g. conference call about something not germane to my work; required corporate training; et al) I may find myself nodding off.
DeletePart of the problem is that I don't get as much sleep as I should during the night. I've read that, as the body ages, one needs fewer hours of sleep every night, but that theory hasn't been working out so well for me so far!
One of my hopes for retirement (to begin somewhere between this coming Monday and two years from next month) is that I'll be able to sleep more.
DeleteHave a retirement plan is my unsolicited advice. I had the full-time job, breadwinner role in our family, and, healthy or not, my primary identity was always tied to work. Having to retire due to illness just about killed me. I slept way better when I was working.
DeleteI retired in 2018, but got called back to fill in several times. I worked 6-7 hours a day during those times. But the last time I filled in was the fall of 2024. I found that standing for long periods at a lab benchtop was doing a job on my back, so I finally told them I was done for good. I don't miss it, but I have gotten too lazy.
DeleteI don't think you need less sleep as you age, but your body decides you're going to get less.
"I can put in 8 hours of physical work but I’m usually tired through the next day so I guess 4 hours per day is the real limit"
DeleteBetty's real limit is 4 hours per day, but she can turn on the adrenaline and do 8 hours, but then she has to make up for it buy resting for a day or even two.
When I retired at age sixty, I ended up sleeping about 7.5 hours a night, usually two 3-hour sleep cycles follow by a ninety-minute sleep cycle.
When I retired at age sixty, I decided to go to the gym regularly at least every other day. The primary thing was the treadmill. I began slowly easing myself higher both in speed and in elevation. I got up to almost 4 mph, just short of running, and increased the elevation. After a number of years, I was doing 30 to sixty minutes with about half of that at 120 bpm. It was good practice for my annual treadmill test by my cardiologist. Every year I improved. It was probably one of the best decisions of my life. I was in very good shape before I got my balance problem.
Jim, I think if you concentrate on the exercise, your sleep will fall into line. You will sleep better and the tendency to fall asleep when sedentary will leave. If it doesn't, I would check out the possibility of sleep apnea. If that is confirmed, I would get an adjustable bed rather than a beathing device. It worked well for me.
In the last year or two I seem to have the need for more sleep even when I am exercising regularly, I think that was true of my dad and aunts when they got into their mid and late eighties. I now lay down, sometimes just to relax without falling to sleep, but often I go into a 90-minute sleep cycle. My plan is to continue getting in my steps daily which help very much to getting a good night's sleep with rests and naps as necessary.
Like Jack I have balance probs. Can't ride a real bike, but I drag my "bike to nowhere" outdoors and get steps in that way. I can't take an indoor treadmill. There's a reason Victorian prisons used them as punishment.
DeleteJack do you listen to music or something? Raber's gym has little TVs on the treadmills, and he watches game shows, which, imo, would be added punishment, but he likes it.
Jim, take it or leave it, but my advice is to work longer if you can, even if you can’t sleep in as often as you would like. I’m sure your big multinational corporate employer has a decent retirement plan for you, and your wife has one too. But since life is never predictable, I would save as much as possible during the next couple of years before quitting. Some savings could be used for deferred dreams like going to Paris or season tickets to the symphony or whatever , But adding to your private savings in addition to combined SS and 401k would still be a good idea. Even if you never fall off a ladder, health becomes more precarious with age. Cancer, strokes, dementia etc are all possibilities even though you might think you will escape. I have excellent health for a 79 year old except for getting cancer twice in five years. ( no blocked arteries,, kidney disease, high blood pressure or cholesterol, or diabetes etc.) I never expected to get cancer even once., and even with excellent health you should prepare for something dramatic that will change SS in a few years. I don’t know what, but if the MAGA/GOP reps in Congress and the WH, continue to control the country, retirement benefits like Medicare and SS will surely be cut to continue to fund the interest on the record federal deficit, tax cuts for the 1%, and to fund the out of control military budget (already more than the next ten largest military budgets in the world combined). Pay off your mortgage if you have one, and don’t buy a Medicare Advantage plan. Look into a supplementary plan instead. If you are hitting 65 this year don’t wait to sign up for Medicare Part B because if you miss the deadline and sign up later there is a penalty. Part B pays for doctors etc.Part A is automatic and covers only hospital inpatient costs. Then think about how you want to spend your time. I started working for SS wages at 13. I had never not worked until my hearing loss forced me to retire at 67, except for four years following the births of our first two sons. I was bored to tears so started my freelance career. As much as I loved my sons, they had no interest in discussing what happened at the G7 meetings. My husband worked full time until 72 and part- time as a consultant for 3 more years. By deferring collecting SS until 70 1/2 we could max our payments. I think they might have changed it to add another year or two to the possible deferral period. It took both of us a while to adjust to retirement. I had planned to take courses at local colleges and continue to go downtown for an interesting speaker. DC has a wealth of both colleges and good speakers. But my plan bit the dust because of my hearing loss. My husband was always fixing and building and gardening. Of course he can’t do any of that now. Contingency planning would be good. We never imagined deafness or paralysis would be part of our “ golden years”. Isn’t there a saying ? Plan for the worst and hope for the best.
DeleteDuring the last two or three years before retirement I started doing proposal writing for some of the big defense contractors around here because proposal writing ( responding to RFPs) paid really well and I was trying to add to our private savings. Proposal work is very intense and requires very long days to meet deadlines. Generally I worked 10-12 hours/day and occasionally 15. By the end of the contract, usually a few weeks, but one lasted three months, I was pretty tired. But I actually enjoyed the work until I couldn’t do it anymore because of my hearing loss- I couldn’t do phone interviews and research, and couldn’t understand what people said during team meetings. So think about your interests and make a plan, both for increased financial security and for making the most of your new free time.
Jean, I have a computer with a large screen in front of my treadmill downstairs. I do a lot of photography, mostly of it outdoors, flowers, lakeshore, sunsets, etc. I have that set up so I can review it on my computer. I read a study that said that virtual scenery has the same health benefits as real scenery with walking. The computer also has an excellent sound system.
DeleteOf course, ever since the pandemic I have celebrated the Hours when I use the treadmill. So, I get my spiritual and physical exercise at the same time. In fact, my website is designed so that I have about the number of minutes of music that covers an hour of exercise in the morning and another hour in the evening of exercise in the evening. That gives me the eight thousand steps that is my goal for the day. Usually, I get about thirty to forty minutes in the morning and another thirty to forty minutes in the evening.
Besides my website for music for the Hours, I also have a collection of YouTube websites that cover sunrises and sunsets at various places here and along the coast.
A treadmill can be a challenge for people that have a balance problem. Every time I go for physical therapy, I see to it that maintaining and improving my treadmill walking is part of the therapy.
As I age, I have found a variety of bicycles at the YMCA very valuable in keeping my legs in shape without the jarring and balance problems that occurs with walking and treadmills. I was an avid bicycle rider in my thirties and forties on the relatively flat terrain around the lake where we had our summer cabin, like 30-50 miles a morning. I worked at a mental health center at the time. When we had a picnic, I wore shorts. One of my woman coworkers told me afterward that my "great legs" was the talk of the picnic. Of course, bicycling also made the treadmill easier when I took it up on my sixties.
Thank you, everyone, for the retirement-related advice. I really appreciate it.
DeleteFwiw, my health is pretty good so far. I bicycle, do strength training and various cardio workouts - YouTube has a lot of free content.
My pastor would be thrilled if I was to retire and start being around the parish more during the weekdays. The other deacon at our parish does this already - he is the guy who oversees the hospital visits, home visits, bereavement ministry and a number of other things. These are critical and quite time-consuming ministries. He is approaching 80, has had one or two health events, and would need to start scaling back, perhaps fairly soon. All these things he does, I have sort of dabbled in here and there over the years but have never been able to embrace them as regular ministries because so much of the activities happen during the workday. It would make sense for me to be his succession plan. The fact is, much Patrick activity is run by active retirees in the 65-80 age range, so I would join their ranks.
At the same time - I am keeping an open mind about what God may wish me to do. I have gifts of my own that aren't necessarily the same as the other deacon's. One of those is music.
Regarding my career, I am still doing pretty high-quality work and, overall, my energy level is still pretty high. It is not clear whether my employer would wish to keep me around, but if they have work for me, I would keep going another couple of years, maybe until 70. But if it ends soon, we'll be okay financially. I have thought pretty hard about job-hunting if I find myself unemployed, but I don't think I could start over at a new company at this stage of my life unless they check off many boxes for me; and the present age doesn't seem to be one in which employees have the lavor-market power.
I wrote, "The fact is, much Patrick activity is run by active retirees in the 65-80 age range, so I would join their ranks."
Delete"Patrick" should be "Parish". I guess I must have done that comment on my phone. Its spell-check autocorrect is pernicious!
How will you know what God wants you to do after retirement? What kind of sign do you expect? If it’s just a “ feeling “, how do you know if it’s from God or just there because it’s what you want to do?
DeleteGood question.
DeleteI think most of us at this age know some hard truths about ourselves--what we're good at and what we suck at. A conscience nurtured along Christian principles helps people channel their strengths into activities that reflect love for God and our neighbors.
Jim used to talk about being called to the diaconate to minister to the poor. Now he's talking about music as a ministry. Our sense for how we best contribute to the Christian endeavor changes as self-knowledge grows.
I take "what God wants me to do" as figurative language for "how I perceive I can contribute to the Great Commission."
My thoughts only, and apologies for using Jim as my example.
Jean - “ I take "what God wants me to do" as figurative language for how I perceive I can contribute to the Great Commission."
DeleteGood explanation.
"How will you know what God wants you to do after retirement? What kind of sign do you expect? If it’s just a “ feeling “, how do you know if it’s from God or just there because it’s what you want to do?"
DeleteWell, the short and simple, but not entirely truthful, answer to all of these is, "I don't know".
At various moments in my life, I've had an intuition - I hesitate to call it a "feeling", because that's kind of a fuzzy term that may refer to any number of different phenomena, from physical pain to the experience of emotion - that to take Path A rather than Path B or Path Z, is what I should do. Emphasis on *should*. I'm free to ignore the intuition (at my own peril).
I truly do believe that these episodes are examples of God reaching out to me. How do I know? Through faith, I guess.
How do I know that the source of these intuitions ia not some malicious spiritual being, or perhaps my own desire, or perhaps even my indigestion, giving me this intuition? I dunno; how do we discern the truth or falsehood, or the virtue or evil, of anything? Intelligence guided by experience, I suppose. And faith that my guardian angel helps me with this sort of thing when I need help.
I may still get it wrong. But it's not for lack of God trying.
Jean, I don't mind your using me as an example.
DeleteI agree with you that my perception is a key part of this process. And how I "process" (evaluate) what I've perceived. I would insist, too, that God is signaling me somehow - this process isn't entirely subjective.
I had very few spiritual experiences in life, and people in my family who claimed to have had them were either nuts or drunk. If I have a guardian angel, she is on smoke breaks 90 percent of the time. I do feel a "pull" toward certain choices that run counter to my purely selfish inclinations. But that's about as far as it goes. I suppose a religious person would tell me that I don't work hard enough at prayer or church-going to be plugged into clear messages from the Infinite. Fair enough.
Delete"I suppose a religious person would tell me that I don't work hard enough at prayer or church-going to be plugged into clear messages from the Infinite."
DeleteAs a rule, I don't tell people such things, lest they (quite rightfully!) offer me the motes-and-planks rejoinder.
All props to people of faith. It's not a gift everyone receives in the same measure--or at all.
Delete“ It's not a gift everyone receives in the same measure--or at all.”
DeleteYes. And it can’t simply be imposed on people. Baptism, confirmation etc are lovely symbolic ceremonies for people who already have faith ( or say they do) and want their children to have it also. But lovely symbolic ceremonies don’t usually work, at least not in the sense that they guarantee that a child will one day be an adult with a faith like their parents.
My 45 years looking for faith in organized religion has yielded a few nuggets of inspiration, and I would not say it was a waste of time.
DeleteI'm glad I introduced The Boy to Catholicism. I'm glad Raber finds something in it.
I believe there is a God of creation, that he sent Jesus to teach us how to live harmoniously, and that the saints showed us how to apply those teachings in many circumstances.
I believe that, despite the disappointment and bitterness I feel here as my years grow short, God expects me to suck it up and try harder to love my neighbor. That's the essence of the story of the Good Thief for me. Jesus Christ stopped dying long enough to give comfort to a dying man.
I believe that the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth is part of an intelligent plan that we cannot fully grasp in this lifetime.
Jean—“I believe there is a God of creation, that he sent Jesus to teach us how to live harmoniously, and that the saints showed us how to apply those teachings in many circumstances…”
DeleteAgree - Jesus did not come to be tortured and die a horrible death in order to redeem human sin because the creator was a sadist and needed a blood sacrifice in order to forgive human sin. He came to teach us how to live, and how to love our neighbor, especially those we don’t much like.
“I believe that the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth is part of an intelligent plan that we cannot fully grasp in this lifetime.”
Again I agree. It’s beyond the grasp of our limited human minds.
It seems inevitable that people like Jesus get tortured and killed. I don't think that's an angry God's demand for a sacrifice. That whole Schick is just a way for people to drag God into collusion with their violence.
Delete*shtick. Gotta love people putting their trust in AI when it's inventors can't even get auto correct to perform properly.
Delete*its. Another auto correct tic.
DeleteMore about AI in a future post. I've watched some very bad quality youtube stuff that was painfully, obviously AI. And also read some lengthy essays that vomited forth all their knowledge on a the subject they were discussing with no editing. I should say I didn't watch or read those things all the way to the end. I just refrained from throwing something heavy and moved on.
DeleteNow that we have "alternative facts," and experts and gatekeepers are all minions of the Deep State, everybody can cobble up a Web site and hit ChatGPT for "content."
DeleteHonestly, I think I'll be done on here if one more person slaps up info from AI and expects people to waste their time reading it. Which I suppose is just going to encourage people to do it more. Hee.
Jean —“ It seems inevitable that people like Jesus get tortured and killed. I don't think that's an angry God's demand for a sacrifice. “
DeleteThat’s my point. The RCC and most Christians teach atonement theology, embedded in the prayers. They teach that Jesus came (the Incarnation) “to die for our sins”, recreated during “the sacrifice” of the mass, when Catholics consume (literally, via a postulated transfiguration into bread and wine) “the body and blood” of Jesus in the Eucharist. They teach that Jesus “died for our sins”.
Jesus died because he stood up to power, not because he had to “atone” for our sins. He taught us how to live, and taught through his death that standing up for truth against power has consequences- his death was the consequence of this, not to be “the perfect sacrifice”, a blood sacrifice to take the place of animal sacrifices to God for atonement. Jesus’s death was supposed to be atonement for our sins because God wouldn’t forgive humanity unless there was (divine) atonement.
If that theology is right ( it’s church teaching) then God would be a cruel supreme being denying forgiveness and mercy without the blood sacrifice of Jesus.
There is nothing in the creeds that supports substitutionary atonement as far as I can see. Basically, they seem to underscore the notion that God did not let Christ die in vain. God creates good from evil. But my views are not gonna move the needle for anybody. That's Jim's job.
DeleteJean as far as I know you are right that substitutionary atonement isn't written into the creeds. Basically it is an attempt to explain why Jesus had to die. Seems to me he had to die because he was born, no one gets out of here alive. He is called "the King of martyrs". Martyrs give their lives in witness to the truth, which Jesus did.
Delete"... no one gets out of here alive ..."
DeleteUnless you count the BVM, assumed bodily into heaven last week. But maybe the story on that is that she died first, then woke up and went to Heaven.
What had always heard was that Mary died, and her body was taken into heaven.
DeleteI should clarify my comment above, I do believe that Jesus, by his own free will, gave his life for the salvation of all. But not that the Father demanded it of him in some sort of vengeful blood sacrifice.
I am not knocking whatever makes sense to you or others here about Mary, the crucifixion, or anything else. I would not argue that anything the Church teaches is wrong just because it leaves me skeptical, confused, etc.
DeleteTime to round up cats, take my pills, and head for bed!
Sang with the funeral choir this morning. We sang Serdeczna Matko again. I'm getting better with the words. LOL, maybe singing in a foreign language helps one's mental processes.
ReplyDeleteHopefully, learning one can help, too. Right now, my Polish language classmates are:
DeleteA guy in MD who works for the government as a supervisor and had a Polish great-grandfather. A lady economics professor in Serbia whose grandfather was from Poland. A Filipino guy living in Poland. A spanish teacher in Oregon who is a Spanish citizen.
Students have come and gone. Don’t know why they left except for the young English woman who got into a text kerfuffle with the teacher seemingly ex nihilo.
Right now, it’s one of the things that is pleasurable in my life.
Stanley, what language school are you in? Obviously online.
DeleteIt’s “Polish with Dorota”. She has good videos on YouTube. Her school has around ten teachers. My teacher was in Poznań but has moved since. When the teacher is unavailable, others substitute.
DeleteOk. Won’t work. I thought it might be a site that offers multiple language choices. My youngest son’s mother- in- law is named Dorota, which I assume is the Polish form of Dorothy. ( Is there a Saint Dorothy?). I think my husband and I need to start studying Spanish now that our son and family live in Spain. I’m reasonably ok in French and my husband knows some French, so if youngest son and family move to France in two years as planned, we might be able to travel in both France and Spain to visit. (Or it might be too hard to make a trip like that, but language study is good for the brain anyway they say.)
DeleteIf inclined, I’m sure you can find a French equivalent. I’m not a fan of the every language websites. I think all or many use English as the “lingua franca”. The non-US students in my class speak excellent English. Better take advantage before they switch to Chinese.
DeleteOf possible interest: PBS will spotlight poet Mary Oliver on American Masters Aug 25.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the heads up. Mary Oliver is my favorite poet.
DeleteI remember she has come up in discussions here a few times. I like her, too.
DeleteBusiness as usual at America Magazine. Genocide in Gaza, settler on Palestinian violence in the West Bank, bombing in southern Lebanon, a war (yes, actual war this time, not genocide) on Iran as illegal and stupid as they come, and not a peep from them. How many elephants can you pack into a living room and still ignore them? That magazine will talk about cruet design before they mention the catastrophes about us. The Hormuz shutdown has not hit us yet. Will they even acknowledge it then? Can't wait until my subscription lapses.
ReplyDeleteDo you still subscribe to Commonweal? Raber finds a lot to like in their political coverage. He also gets the CNEWA publication, which covers Christian minorities in places like Gaza. They do good work.
DeleteYes, Jean, I do. Commonweal, at this point, has it all over America. America seems to want to be fair and nice and both sides-y. All my comments to America are vetted. Apparently, it’s bad form to get passionate about genocide and things of that sort.
DeleteCommonweal has an advantage in that it is lay and independent. The editorial staff makes its own decisions about what to cover. America is an organ of the Jesuits, and they have to mollify various overseers.
DeleteStanley, all my comments are vetted also. This came about initially because I once mentioned that America is subject to censorship in Rome and they were threatened with mandatory reviews in Rome before every month’s publication after being forced by Benedict to fire Thomas Reese as editor. The first time I brought that up the comment was belatedly taken down, but not every comment was held. After I did it again then they started vetting every comment..
DeleteI did notice that recently they haven’t mentioned Gaza much except reporting Leo’s statements.
I resubscribed to Commonweal because they aren’t subject to clerical control, but did continue my America subscription because of Kevin Clarke, who does excellent reporting on global poverty issues, including reporting on the hundreds of thousands of deaths that have occurred since Musk killed USAID. His articles seem to be mostly ignored by American readers just as Gaza stories are I think. The only deaths most white Catholics are concerned with it seems are 8 week old embryos, it those who are ,Irving, breathing already born human beings. America seems to be getting dumbed down, going the way of Our Sunday Visitor or something — using a lot of material from them also.
…not those who are living….
DeleteMy iPad touchscreen still doesn’t work right
Yes, Anne. America lost its charism with the loss of Father Reese as far as I'm concerned. It's not that I'm not interested in all the AI and church stuff articles, but Gaza and the Hormuz disaster and whatever disaster this administration initiates next has my obsessed attention. I sometimes wonder if America Magazine will maintain its Serenity Now posture if the US or Israel drops a nuclear bomb on Iran. Though I still proceed with my daily life, I don't know if I could if the Bomb were used by us or our partner-in-crime Israel. Like reading "Nuclear Bomb Dropped on Underground Missile Facility" and then going to a dance in Allentown. Anything is possible in this strange age. Well, thanks, Anne, for telling me you're in the same boat regarding America Comments. I can't say misery doesn't like company. Interesting to see how they reacted to another commenter. They don't bother admonishing me for my comments, anymore. They merely ignore them.
DeleteUnrelated, pretty happy for my oldest son. The sci-fi series he's been working on for over a decade got a good review in Kirkus.Reviews
ReplyDeleteHopefully this link works:
Deletehttps://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/james-mcgowan/repenter-players-of-the-game/
That’s absolutely wonderful! It takes so much discipline and patience in addition to imagination and talent to do this. Many congratulations to your son! 👏🥳
DeleteWow. I wish him the best. For someone like me whose writing mostly consists of bumper stickers, working on a series for a decade is more than I can fathom.
DeleteKatherine - that is amazing! Not that I know much about these things, but judging by the plot summary and the cover art, it has film rights and video-game rights in the offing.
DeleteI hope, after he becomes a gazillionaire, he builds you a guest house in his California beachfront property.
Jim, lol!
DeleteMy son's writing has always been a side thing that he did for fun. He has a pretty demanding day job, which I imagine he will keep. But I'm sure he would be tickled if his story turned into a game or a film!
Don't lol too much! Andy Weir started his career as a self-published sci fi author with The Martian.
Delete