Wednesday, March 3, 2021

Vaccine Ethics, Again

You may have seen Jim McCrea's email share of this article on the America site.  It discusses a statement by the archdiocese of New Orleans questioning the morality of accepting the Johnson and Johnson vaccine because of the use of a cell line derived from an abortion that occurred decades ago. Presumable their archbishop wrote the statement, though it was unsigned. 

From the article:  "On Feb. 26, the Archdiocese of New Orleans called the Johnson & Johnson vaccine “morally compromised as it uses the abortion-derived cell line in development and production of the vaccine as well as the testing” and urged Catholics to consider taking other vaccines if they are given a choice....Those statements seem to refer to debate over the use of what are referred to as HEK293 cells, which reportedly trace their origins to an aborted fetus from the 1970s. Scholars and ethicists have noted that HEK293 and similar cell lines are clones and are not the original fetal tissue....Anthony Egan, S.J., a Jesuit priest and lecturer in theology in South Africa, said church leaders publishing messages about hypothetical situations during a crisis is “unhelpful” as Catholics navigate life in a pandemic....Therese Lysaught, a professor of bioethics and health policy at the Stritch School of Medicine at Loyola University Chicago and a member of the Pontifical Academy for Life, said the church has been consistent in its approval of vaccines with ties to controversial cell lines for at least 15 years. “It’s always good to ask questions, but my position is, this question has been answered over and over and over again.” She said that the Vatican has been clear that receiving vaccines is morally just—and that was well before a global pandemic." 

We also discussed the issue of ethical vaccines on this site in November, on one of Jim Pauwels' threads.  Rather than rehash what has already been discussed, I would like to discuss the subject of cell lines and their origins a little more generally.  

You may have heard of the cell line known as HeLaThis cell line was actually the first successful so-called immortal cell line, and is still in extensive use today. Its origin was in 1951, from cancer patient, Henrietta Lacks. Among many other things, one of its uses was in the development of the Salk polio vaccine. It is safe to say that countless lives have been saved due to the research using the HeLa cell line.  

The situation of the HeLa line is somewhat parallel to the HEK293 line, which is the one from the aborted fetus in the 1970s.  Henrietta Lacks died from cervical cancer. Her life was short and full of tragedy. She was poor, and in many ways never had a chance. She was African American, and suffered from the aftermath of slavery, growing up in its shadow in the South, in the same location where her ancestors were enslaved.  Neither she nor her family gave consent for her tissue samples obtained in biopsy to be used in research. Of course that was the common practice at the time. Ms. Lacks was the subject of a book, "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks", by Rebecca Skloot.  

It is worth pointing out that there is nothing to suggest that obtaining cells for research was a motive in Ms. Lacks' treatment, which would be considered substandard today, but was all that was available then.  Similarly, there is nothing to suggest that the abortion from which the HEK293 line was obtained, was carried out on purpose for obtaining cells for research.  If that had been the case, it would give credence to the bishops' objections on to vaccines developed from it on ethical grounds. As it is, their objections seem to be an overly scrupulous slicing and dicing which has the potential for encouraging people not to be vaccinated.

In a way, we can look at the cell lines derived from tragedies as giving meaning to the short lives of the victims.

We have only to look at the dire situation in Brazil to understand that there is no time to be wasted in getting as many people as possible vaccinated in order to get ahead of the virus.  


46 comments:

  1. For reasons of individual health, and also the common good, my view is: unless there is a compelling medical reason not to, every adult in the United States should get vaccinated when they are able.

    At the same time, I also believe that adults have the right to be informed of the ethical dimensions of their medical care; and they should be given agency to make responsible ethical decisions about their own care.

    The magisterial advice (which the New Orleans Archdiocese seems to be echoing) seems pretty sound: there are several vaccines being deployed across the US; some have more ethical issues than others; if you are not given a choice of vaccine in your local area, then take whatever is on offer, because the need to get vaccinated takes precedence over these other ethical considerations; if you are given a choice, then choose a vaccine which is ethically acceptable.

    I don't think that's too complicated for an adult to think through.

    There may be something to the criticism that this is not being communicated very well by the bishops as a whole, and by individual bishops. That problem is exacerbated by one or two bishops who are "going rogue" and giving their own advice (I would argue: are departing from the wisdom of the Catholic ethical tradition); and those one or two bishops are the ones who make headlines in our dysfunctional media ecosystem.

    So: the bishops' advice is good. It needs to be communicated better. Perhaps all of us can help in that respect, within our own social networks.

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    1. It should also be noted that we in the US are fortunate to have three vaccines approved. At present there really isn't a choice, you get what is available in your area. Later there probably will be more choice. But the two vaccines which didn't use any human derived cells in development (one of them used cells in testing) require freezing at low temps for storage. Which limits them to "first world" conditions.

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  2. I first read of this controversy last December. The Vatican says it's OK to take the vaccine. But many bishops don't like the pope, so....

    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatican-city/news/2020-12/vatican-cdf-note-covid-vaccine-morality-abortion.html

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  3. Had a chit-chat with my family doc on Monday about people who are afraid of the vaccine. She has heard some doozies, but most concerning is that when she asks people where they are getting their info, she said they almost always say, "at church."

    We may have a dysfunctional media ecosystem, as Jim suggests, but it behooves us to look at how elements in our own Church contribute to the propagation of bullsh*t info.

    The regional Catholic high school is suing the state over the mask mandate:

    “The fact is, our high schools’ COVID-19 safety plans, with their robust health and safety protocols, are working well at protecting both our school communities and the community at large, while also ensuring that our young people can receive the in-person education and formation that is so irreplaceable to their spiritual, intellectual, emotional and social development,” Maloney said in a statement Monday.

    ...A diocese statement that announced the lawsuit on Monday claimed the current state orders are “scientifically, educationally and constitutionally unjustified.” Among those listed as a party in the litigation is Dr. Christopher J. Abood, whose son attends Lansing Catholic High School.

    “We choose to send our son to a Catholic school because we firmly believe that the human person is both soul and body and that the practice of our faith demands certain physical elements, such as the reception of the Holy Eucharist and Sacrament of Reconciliation, that cannot be accomplished through video chats and other technological means,” Abood said.

    https://www.lansingcitypulse.com/stories/lansing-catholic-high-school-pushes-back-against-covid-19-orders,15330

    The anti-vaxxers don't want to take "yes" for an answer, and I suspect there is more politics than prayer involved. Rightwing one-issue voters who already think COVID is a hoax and won't get vaccinated anyway want to be able to say that they're not getting it because of the dead babies sacrificed to make it.

    How pure and holy. Not.

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    1. Maybe they need to pay attention to what's going on in Brazil. The virus doesn't care how devout a Catholic one is.

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    2. I've also heard a number of people at church who, while not out-and-out anti-vaxxers, are taking the attitude, 'I'm going to wait before taking the vaccine'. I don't know that it's church per se, but church is where a lot of people congregate, and some percentage of them get their information from unreliable sources.

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    3. I hadn't heard about Lansing Central Catholic suing the state, but the issue in question seems to be whether or not the private school can deliver in-person instruction.

      Here in Chicago, the archdiocesan Catholic schools have been doing in-person instruction since the beginning of the academic year. The rule of thumb so far around here as been: private schools are in-person, while public schools are mostly or entirely remote-only. The private school experience so far is proof of what Maloney claims in the article: the mitigation and safety measures work. There have not been large outbreaks as a result of teachers and students congregating in schools.

      The question of in-person vs. remote-only instruction is separate from the anti-vaxxer problems. The Catholic school teachers and staff around here are pro-vax - they all want to be vaccinated. They're teaching in-person with eyes wide open - they understand the risks and work hard to manage them. Vaccines obviously are one of the very best mitigation strategies.

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    4. The dumbasses who object to mask-wearing and vaccines don't owe me explanations. In fact, I'd rather not waste my time listening to them.

      What I object to are RCC leaders and institutions with a lot of visibility in the community (schools) that provide pious cover stories for the conspiracy believers. These excuses are not based on science or Church teaching. They muddy the waters where they need to be crystal clear. They do not contribute to the health, safety, and common good of our communities.

      Even my Church Ladies are making masks, not spreading lies.

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    5. Jim, the issue is mask-wearing. The lawsuit language in another Lansing Catholic school says: "In accordance with the teachings of the Catholic faith, Resurrection School believes that every human has dignity and is made in God’s image and likeness. Unfortunately, a mask shields our humanity. And because God created us in His image, we are masking that image.”

      https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2020/10/28/michigan-ingham-mask-mandate-lawsuit-resurrection-school/6051937002/

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    6. Seriously? They think a mask interferes with the image of God? That's a new one on me.
      The Catholic schools here have been going in-person all school year. Students and teachers have also been wearing masks, distancing, and using tons of hand sanitizer. So far they have been okay.

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    7. "Unfortunately, a mask shields our humanity. And because God created us in His image, we are masking that image.”

      So do clothes in general!!! A lot of this is just plain superstition the worst kind of religious belief.

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    8. I can't speak to loony "face-of-God" maskless theories, but in this diocese, all Catholic school students, teachers and staff are required to wear masks at all times.

      The Lansing Catholic Central lawsuit you highlighted earlier clearly is not about masks but rather about whether the state is overstepping its authority by shutting down a private school. The experience so far, at least around here, is that private schools being open has not been a health hazard, because they've been responsible about the risks of in-person learning.

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    9. Lansing Catholic Central complained about any regulations other than those dictated by the diocese early on. When Gov. Whitmer shut down all high schools, LCHS started freaking out and filing lawsuits.

      Recently, someone posted a photo on the school's Web site showing white students giving what looks like a Nazi salute while someone wearing a KKK hood stood in the crowd. https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2021/02/25/lansing-catholic-kkk-nazi-photo/6817920002/

      This comes after an edict in which some students of color on the sports team were threatened with expulsion for kneeling during the national anthem, though that story had a happier ending with the bishop taking the unusual step to actually listen to people: https://www.lansingcitypulse.com/stories/lsquofive-layers-of-whitenessrsquo,1302

      The impression I get of LCHS is that it is white and right-wing first, Catholic second.

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  4. This is not just a few odd bishops.

    "The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops this week encouraged Catholics to choose Pfizer or Moderna's COVID-19 vaccines over Johnson & Johnson, if possible, because the latter's inoculation was developed from stem cells obtained during two abortions.

    Bishop Kevin Rhoades, chairman of the conference's Committee on Doctrine, and Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann, chairman of the conference's Committee on Pro-Life Activities, in a Tuesday statement called on Catholics to choose Pfizer or Moderna's vaccine over Johnson & Johnson's, if a choice is available.

    But they added that it is "morally acceptable" for worshippers to receive any COVID-19 vaccine if no choice is available, calling getting vaccinated "an act of charity that serves the common good."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bishops-discourage-catholics-from-receiving-johnson-johnson-vaccine-if-alternatives-available/ar-BB1eda04?ocid=msedgntp

    The bishops are not content with giving us voting advice, now they are giving us medical product advice. Clericalism gone rampant in my opinion.

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    1. Jack, that's not medical product advice, it's ethical advice. Providing that guidance is the bishops' job. People still are free to make their own decisions. As a practical matter, none of us, at least around here, have more than one option for a vaccine product; all of us should take whichever one is on offer. But within a few months, the supply situation could be quite different. If I am not vaccinated by then, and have a choice between the Johnson & Johnson vaccine at the local clinic and the Pfizer vaccine at the local Walgreens, I'll choose the Pfizer vaccine for moral reasons.

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    2. Well, Jim, you and the bishops may think of these things as ethical advice and part of your job descriptions, but I think most people are with me in seeing these interventions as obsessing about abortion and bringing that cause into very remote parts of life such as deciding about political candidates and vaccines.

      I think it is one thing to be pro-life, i.e. to be encouraging and supportive of pregnant women in bearing children, and quite another thing to be obsessive about abortion, to make it the pre-eminent issue in the words of the bishops.

      I also have similar misgivings about those who have made nuclear war or the environment the pre-eminent issue. It is perfectly OK for me if people want to devote their lives to a cause, just as long as they don't expect me to devote my life to that cause. There is something about causes which tend to take the place of God that disturbs me. Forming your life about eliminating an evil seems to me to enthrone that evil.

      I think of myself as a very tolerant person, but after four years of suffering under Trump, who was our president because of the bishops, Catholics and Evangelicals, I have just made up my mind to be very honest with all the people who are obsessing about abortion by bring it into politics and medical practice that I don't regard making abortion into a cause as being spiritually admirable.

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    3. Jack, yes, you always come across to me as tolerant and even-keeled. I am not going to say your judgment in this matter is wrong.

      As I look at it, we should think about this topic as being analogous to buying clothing which was produced by child labor or slave labor. We as consumers are, in some meaning of the word, remote from those production decisions. We have no practical control or influence over it. At the same time, when we buy the product, we're contributing in some small, marginal way to the ecosystem which allows that evil to flourish. Perhaps that's not a mortal sin. Does it matter at all? That's not always easy to discern. And in fact, the church's advice is more "generous" re: the Johnson and Johnon vaccine than many pro-life activists would have expected.

      That's why the church employs ethicists who are steeped in the tradition and trained in the methodology, to help us think through these complex issues. As I am sure you are aware, this advice re: the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is not original to the bishops; they are communicating the analysis and conclusions of professional moral theologians whom they've consulted.

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    4. "There is something about causes which tend to take the place of God that disturbs me. Forming your life about eliminating an evil seems to me to enthrone that evil."

      I found this really profound, Jack. Thank you.

      "...this advice re: the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is not original to the bishops; they are communicating the analysis and conclusions of professional moral theologians whom they've consulted."

      I did not realize this. Does this mean that the bishops are in any way abrogating their teaching responsibility? Not asking to be combative, but am truly curious. Traditionally, bishops helped the faithful find practical solutions to ethical conundrums. I think of Pope St. Gregory rolling his eyes at some of the fussy questions St. Augustine of Canterbury asked--questions that St. Augustine knew the answers to, but that he often just thought to pieces. He was always making big blunders because he was so worried about some smaller thing going wrong.

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    5. Right - the bishops "own" the advice. As you note, it's their job to offer it. But some of these situations are so complex that bishops (at least if they are wise) employ professional advisers to help them think through these things.

      By way of analogy: a judge "owns" her court decisions, but sometimes they will assign a special master if the trial matter is highly technical and/or requires specialized expertise for which a judge may not have the background and experience to understand all the issues.

      In the Chicago archdiocese, which is one of the larger ones, the archbishop has on his curia (team of advisers) a moral theologian to assist with questions like this one. Whether a smaller diocese would do so in every case, I am not sure. Typically but not always, that special adviser would be a priest who has received advanced training (e.g. a PhD in moral theology). This is one of the reasons that priests get sent to Rome for further study.

      National conferences and the Holy See also employ advisers - perhaps in part to ensure that smaller dioceses have high caliber advice.

      Underlying some of this is a question of trust: bishops will employ advisers whose advice they trust. I suppose it's not news that not all bishops find all theologians trustworthy. (And vice-versa!)

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    6. Thanks, Jim.

      It seems to me that the better advice would be akin to that given when voting for pro-choice Democrats: Vote for them if, after examining your conscience, you are choosing them in spite of rather than because of their stance on abortion.

      So: If you are taking the vaccine to protect the lives of others and the public health, and not because you want to support the use of cells harvested from long-ago abortions, get whichever vaccine is best for you. J&J is just one shot and seems to have fewer side effects, and I would have preferred to have that one, though they tell me we will be getting Pfizer next week.

      The fact that the vaccines are even a question that needs slicing and dicing by a specialized theologian suggests to me that culture warriors are raising a lot of already-settled questions and trying to make the vaccines into an issue where none exists.

      I understand you may feel differently about this, and if you want to use the information to reject the J&J shot, your choice. I just think there are far bigger sins that the pandemic has exposed than this, and spending a lot of time talking about it drains energy from other matters. (So I'll shut up now.)

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    7. "As I look at it, we should think about this topic as being analogous to buying clothing which was produced by child labor or slave labor. We as consumers are, in some meaning of the word, remote from those production decisions. We have no practical control or influence over it. At the same time, when we buy the product, we're contributing in some small, marginal way to the ecosystem which allows that evil to flourish."

      I would have the same reaction if bishops and clergy begin to tell us what clothes to buy or what stock to invest in because of the moral implications of doing so.

      When I have looked at such issues it always seems a complex analysis is needed which needs to be done by lay people not clerical people and which brings together a host of disciplines not just moral theology. I have no problem if various prolife and social justice organizations make such analysis and argue that we should follow. I think it is clericalism when clerics substitute their limited expertise in the complexities of life to tell us what we should do.

      While I think the clergy should encourage such issue oriented organizations to perform their analysis and advocacy, I think it is up to us as individuals to decide whether or not to take that analysis and advocacy. We all have to prioritize our time and frequently as in the case of vaccines, or purchases it does not seem to be a wise to spend much time analyzing these decisions.

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    8. I don't object to the bishops calling out the ethical implications of these vaccines. That seems to comport with their role as shepherd.

      As I mentioned in my post last November: until the bishops started raising the questions* I was completely unaware of them. The mainstream press coverage either was equally unaware, or decided not to inform us about the issues. (Or, what may be most likely: they did write/broadcast stories about it, but I didn't see them.)

      Now that I am informed, I can make an informed decision. I agree with you that pro-life organizations or other types of apostolates also could raise awareness about these issues. But by making the advice their own, the bishops are offering this advice by way of exercising their teaching authority, In a sense, the church is giving this advice.

      * As a matter of fact, the media, including the Catholic media, had pretty much ignored the bishops (as they do on about 99% of what bishops say) when they started raising this issue last summer. It wasn't until a couple of bishops decided to offer their own homegrown advice to their dioceses, and the national conference stepped in to clarify and correct, that the Catholic media picked up on the story. So the media didn't cover the moral teaching; it covered the conflict between bishops. But in the course of explaining the conflict, they managed to inform the rest of us what the moral issues are. So in a sort of ironic way we owe a debt of gratitude to these 1-2 bishops who wandered off the ranch: if they hadn't gotten this wrong, the rest of us would never have learned about the moral issues.

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  5. Jean: "In accordance with the teachings of the Catholic faith, Resurrection School believes that every human has dignity and is made in God’s image and likeness. Unfortunately, a mask shields our humanity. And because God created us in His image, we are masking that image


    You can't make up this kind of stupid. So, how many more intelligent Catholics in that area are shaking their heads and deciding that the time has come to head for the doors. Clericalism run rampant (don't take the J&J vaccine and don't vote for Democrats) and now sheer stupidity too.

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    1. It's not all the bishops or clergy. Just some of them. The usual ones. Maybe we should have "synods" like the Lutherans do. If you are a really strict starchy Lutheran around here, you are Missouri Synod. Or if even they are too liberal, Wisconsin Synod. The ones that are a little more relaxed are ELCA. But I guess we already do a lot of self-sorting, and it's not altogether a healthy thing.

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    2. ... and this is why Raber and I have fights about the money he's shoveling into the diocesan slush fund. A good percentage of his pledge is earmarked for Catholic schools. Instead of opening more seats for the disadvantaged on classrooms, they're filing nuisance suits against the state. It makes my blood boil.

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    4. Jean, regarding 'diocesan slush funds"

      Decades ago I eliminated both diocesan and united way "slush funds" from my giving, preferring to give my money directly to an organization or two with whom I had a direct relationship.

      About a decade ago I decided to eliminate contributing to the "parish slush fund" and target my funding on the parish Food Bank and the Saint Vincent De Paul society which are run by volunteers, some of whom I know personally. (Actually I give produce from my garden in the summer in addition to money)

      The problem with slush funds is that they empower higher ups such as my pastor rather than the people who actually render service.

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    5. Jack, I came to the same conclusion, and I do the same.

      A lot of people in the parish really pushed back on this special initiative a few years back, which was on top of the yearly diocesan appeal, and refused to participate.

      I suggested to Raber that if he wanted to support Catholic schools, he could give directly to the one The Boy attended, but he is quite dogged about having given a pledge to the bishop and not renegging on it.

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  6. OK, I admit to being so cynical about American Catherine bishops that distrusting their motives is pretty much automatic for me. Frankly, it seems (to me)!that these bishops are just playing politics, as usual.

    So, I can't help but think it a bit fishy that they've never raised this issue in regards to the MMR vaccine that most American children receive, nor against the hepatitis vaccine or one of the rabies vaccines - all also derived from the same cells used in the J&J vaccine.

    Did they even mention the Vatican statement in December on the subject? Or for they so dislike Francis that they are taking another, hmmm, jab at him by highlighting this issue and ignoring Rome.

    Suspect church politics and trumpistas politics both are factors that prompted this "guidance" .

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    1. Anne, yeah, the HEK293 cell line has been around for nearly four decades and has been used in countless medical research and vaccine development. It has been pointed out many times that a cell line isn't original tissue. In order for the original cells to be used in developing a cell line, the chromosomes have to be altered so that the line is "immortal", that is, able to self-replicate an endless number of times. By now the number of generations has to be in the millions or even billions. Does that far removed from the source even count as being a clone, especially with the altered chromosomes? I don't know.
      Definitely if the abortion had been carried out for the purpose of obtaining cells for research, that would be crossing an ethical line, similar to murdering someone to obtain organs for transplant. But there is no indication that was the case. I honestly doubt if the bishops were aware how many treatments and vaccines have been developed from this or any other cell line. It seems like there is something to be said for some good being derived from a tragedy.

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    2. I agree, Anne, that this has all the smell of the bishops entering into the political fray over the pandemic, trying to put Biden into the light of a president that approves of using fetal tissue in vaccines. Very few people, including the bishops, have much understanding of what is involved. I suspect their Republican handlers pointed out this opportunity for them

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    3. As best as I can tell, the USCCB and the Holy See are in agreement on the permissibility of using the J&J vaccine, so I don't see this as an instance of the USCCB and the Holy See being at odds with one another (that entire church-politics story line is too simplistic in any case).

      As mentioned, there are a handful of bishops (just one or two of whom I'm aware) who are pushing the idea that the J&J vaccine is something to be avoided. I guess that is their prerogative, but they seem to be rowing against the larger stream of Catholic moral analysis in doing so.

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  7. Some preliminary reports suggest that people might actually prefer the J & J vaccine since it is a one shot deal. And the government is looking at the one shot as a way to vaccinate as many people as possible as early as possible.

    The J & J vaccine is less effective in preventing symptoms of the disease than the other two, but no less effective in preventing hospitalization, ICU use and death. So if you are a healthy younger person it seems reasonable to go for the one shot deal.

    Since Biden has encourage the partnership between J & J and Merck to produce large quantities for us in the near future, I would not be surprised that we hear more from the bishops on this issue as they ramp up their criticism of Biden

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    1. I don't know that the bishops are trying to play politics with either Biden or the pope over the use of fetal tissue in the vaccine. For one thing a cell line isn't the same thing as fetal tissue, and fetal tissue isn't used in any vaccine. The same issue was raised in the case of the chicken pox vaccine a number of years back, and it was concluded that parents could have their children vaccinated for chicken pox in good conscience. But some parents refused the vaccine on moral grounds. I feel that the bishops are following an overly scrupulous line of moral reasoning when they raise the question, then say it's okay to use the vaccine if there is no alternative available. The consequences are that some people are going to feel that the more moral choice is to hold out for one of the two vaccines in which no cell line was used. Which is possible here, but not in places in the world that can't provide the low temperatures required for storing the Moderna and Pfizer.

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    2. "The consequences are that some people are going to feel that the more moral choice is to hold out for one of the two vaccines in which no cell line was used. "

      Right. And the risk is exacerbated when the guidance is poorly communicated.

      But I come down on the side of informing people and letting them decide. An undercurrent I've seen in some commentary about this (perhaps not so much here as elsewhere) seems to be, "Hey bishops - just shut up! You're confusing people. Don't tell them this complicated information about one vaccine vs. another vaccine, and testing vs. designing and manufacturing. Don't even talk about this stuff. Just let the vaccinations proceed." In my view, withholding the information is even worse than communicating the information poorly.

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    3. Rocco, who generally has the most informed judgement on these matters tweeted

      Given the extraordinary confusion wrought by US bishops on the moral calculus of differing COVID shots, for the record, the Holy See’s authoritative Note on the matter (21 December) did not indulge in the hair-splitting US entities have since attempted

      http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20201221_nota-vaccini-anticovid_en.html

      My reading of the Vatican document which was approved by Francis, is that while it gave the basic moral principles, it did not identify specific vaccines for greater scrutiny, and was generally reassuring that people could use any of the vaccines although they might choose to avoid some as more tainted than others. It also emphasized that people should not just avoid getting the vaccine as if it were just a personal matter rather than a matter of the common good.

      The bottom line from the Vatican teaching in my opinion was that while people might choose to abstain from the vaccine, or choose some rather than others for moral reasons, they really had to take their obligation to the common good seriously.

      The Vatican document, unlike the American bishops, did not cause any waves because it was very pastoral and avoided any public policy statements and potential headlines like "Bishops say Catholics should not get certain vaccines."

      Finally the Vatican document treated individual consciences with respect, both those who might be concerned and those who might not care, it avoided the clericalism of American bishops that offends me, i.e. making themselves and their moral authority the center of attention, and implying that Catholics had to spend a lot of time on this issue, when in fact we don't.

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    4. I hold the media at least in part for headlines that read like "Bishops say Catholics should not get certain vaccines", because that is a misrepresentation of what they actually did say. Not that some of them didn't create their own problems with what they said.
      I agree with what Jim said about informing people and letting them decide, and also with what Jack said about the Vatican document being more pastoral.

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    5. Thank you, Jack.

      I do hope that those who are in a position to influence the people in their parish (like deacons) will take seriously their own obligation to FULLY inform the people of the Vatican's own stance on this issue, rather than allow them to believe that the bishops' version is "the" word.

      Secondly, are they willing to create a whole lot more anti-vaxxers who will refuse to have their children given the MMR in order to go to school?

      Does the common good play into moral thinking at all? Shouldn't Katherine's points above also be included in discussions of this matter?

      Will over-scrupulous Catholics refuse to get a rabies shot if they are bitten by a rabid raccoon?

      If the bishops were driven by pure motives, why didn't they simply issue the Vatican's statement instead of stoking division again by subtly suggesting that the moral course is to refuse the J&J vaccine -perhaps hoping to energize the anti-Biden wing of the church. I mean, if the pandemic itself was a hoax intended to hurt trump's reelection chances (and these people believed this for far too long), perhaps the J&J vaccine is a hoax too intended to give Biden false credit for the vaccine that is rightfully trump's doing? If trump were president and announced this vaccine news, would the bishops have uttered the slightest peep of objection?

      This country is such a mess now. And the "religious leaders" don't help by continuing to stir the anti-Biden pot.

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    6. "I do hope that those who are in a position to influence the people in their parish (like deacons) will take seriously their own obligation to FULLY inform the people of the Vatican's own stance on this issue, rather than allow them to believe that the bishops' version is "the" word."

      Anne, I invite you to scroll all the way up to the top of the comments and read the first paragraph of the first comment posted under this topic. That is my Cliff-notes view on this topic. You can take it to the bank. If anyone in my parish asks me for advice, that is the advice I will give them.

      The American bishops and the Vatican don't speak to identical audiences. As I mentioned before, I don't consider that they are out of sync with one another. Jack helpfully provided this link to the Holy See's authoritative statement. It takes them six paragraphs of church-ese to express their thoughts, and those thoughts are a good deal more complex than, "Never mind about ethical considerations, just take any vaccine, it's all for the common good." It would be nice if things in this world were that simple, but they rarely are.

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    7. Here is that link to the CDF note: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20201221_nota-vaccini-anticovid_en.html

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  8. Jean: "In accordance with the teachings of the Catholic faith, Resurrection School believes that every human ...is made in God’s image and likeness. ... a mask shields our humanity. And because God created us in His image, we are masking that image.”

    There is getting to be a pattern in the proliferation of claims that someone's "religious freedom" is being violated. So now wearing a mask to protect others is a violation of Catholic teachings?

    It seems that the idea of religious freedom is reaching an absurd point, and that the whole concept of religious freedom is being distorted and abused. Some (who should know better) defend people who own a private business, intended to serve the public and make a profit, claiming that these businesses can choose to refuse service to people whose very existence offends their delicate religious sensibilities. Thus no wedding cake for a gay couple. This is no different than no wedding cake for a biracial couple, based on the belief that God didn't intend the races to mix. How about no wedding cakes for Jewish people - those perfidious Jews who put Jesus to death? What really upsets me is when those who are mostly "rational' defend these positions. Would they defend it if the cake-maker refused to bake a cake for a Catholic couple? There are still an amazing number of "christians" out there who don't believe that Catholics are 'christian" and who think the Pope is the anti-Christ. Would they be justified in refusing service to Catholics because they believe that Catholics support evil?

    Bringing religion up in the context of mask-wearing - a health measure - is another example of how dangerous it's getting to be to have so many people hiding behind "religious freedom" to impose their will on others.

    Those who open a public business or operate institutions that serve many (like schools) need to examine their consciences. Especially those in business to serve the public - if they are truly conscience-stricken by being expected to follow the laws of the nation that prohibit discrimination against people whose lives are legally sanctioned (gay marriage, bi-racial marriage) they should find another way to support themselves.

    Catholic institutions have worked to be exempted from anti-discrimination laws in their own hiring and firing. But masks are a public health measure and if applicable to some in the society, they should be applicable to all. If this Catholic school wanted to argue on the basis of the studies done on school safety, fine. But to claim that masks violate human dignity and hide God's image is absurd to the point of being laughable - but if they prevail, it is one more sign of the dangers of the over-reach of the abusive "religious freedom" crowd.

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  9. Anne,

    Making everything a religious freedom issue is a favorite tactic of the religious right. I suspect this raising of the issue of the J&J vaccine is preliminary to making it a religious freedom issue, namely that by the Biden administration facilitating the production of more J&J vaccine they are imposing upon the religious freedom of Catholics by forcing them to take that vaccine. (never mind that the Pope has already said that it is OK for Catholics to take that vaccine).

    Jim,

    My reading of the note is that Francis thinks it is fine for me not to be concerned about what vaccine I take (that I don't have to go out of the way to avoid certain vaccines) and that it is fine for you to witness to pro-life by taking time and effort to avoid some vaccines.

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    1. Jack, respectfully, I disagree. Paragraph 2 of the CDF document states that it can be morally licit to take a vaccine which used cell lines derived from aborted fetuses. But that permissibility is not without caveats: the same paragraph wraps several qualifiers around that permissibility:

      * It's licit "when ethically irreproachable Covid-19 vaccines are not available"

      * It's licit "where [ethically irreproachable vaccines'] distribution is more difficult due to special storage and transport conditions"

      * It's licit "when various types of vaccines are distributed in the same country but health authorities do not allow citizens to choose the vaccine with which to be inoculated."

      This is precisely what the US bishops have been saying.

      FWIW - I am going to take any effective vaccine which offered to me, assuming that, by the time I get the opportunity, I won't be given a choice of brands.

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    2. Jim,

      I think a lot of people are going to take the J&J vaccine when they have a choice simply because one shot is easier. I don't think they are wrong.

      I think a lot of Catholics are going to a agonize over what vaccine to take; some will delay taking the vaccine, and some may end up not taking any vaccine at all. The end result will be more cases, hospital admissions, and deaths.

      My advice to everyone is to get any vaccine as soon as possible. Jesus loves you and would want you to do that. He would think all these moral calculations are the modern version of the Pharisees.

      I think they are all a part of clericalism, the desire of the clergy to be at the center of people lives. I have spent one glorious year without them.

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  10. For anyone still following this thread, I have been looking at coverage of this issue in the mainstream news media. The Detroit Free Press had a pretty good story that localized the issue around the seven Michigan bishops who called the J&J vaccine "more problematic." https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/03/08/catholic-church-michigan-criticizes-johnson-johnson-vaccine/4600460001/

    I think this flap will merely serve to cause problems. A lot of people will just hear "bishops say vaccines bad" and not get any. Or they will put off getting vaccinated if they are offered J&J.

    I have been thinking about Jim's comment that having info is a good thing. But didn't we already have a Vatican ruling about this re vaccines years ago? About half the other mothers in The Boy's Catholic school 20 years ago sought waivers for all vaccines because they were made from aborted fetal cells. Their info came mostly from RTL Michigan. When I asked other mothers about it, they said that the no-vaxxers were holier-than-thou Catho-holics.

    In addition to discouraging vaccination, the "info" seems to keep these divisions alive.

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    1. Jean, I think you make a good point that, these days, the problem sometimes isn't insufficient information, but rather too much information - and much of it competing, contradictory and confusing.

      When it comes to medical ethics, I tend to trust what comes from official church sources more than what would come from a media organization or ideological advocacy org.

      In the case at hand, the church is recommending that, in the current situation, we can all take the Johnson & Johnson vaccine with a clear conscience. It is some of these competing voices which are giving contradictory (and, in my view, bad) advice.

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