Thursday, May 3, 2018

Fr. Martin: bridge-building in a time of (culture) war




It has been nearly a year since Rev. James Martin, SJ, probably best-known as Stephen Colbert's Catholic chaplain, released the book pictured here.  It's both ironic and sad that a message intended to, well, build bridges has become such a lightning rod for controversy.

The book's publisher, HarperCollins, explains that the book grew out of a talk Fr. Martin gave to New Ways Ministry, an organization that ministers to LGBTQ Catholics.  That address, which America magazine published in 2017, is well worth reading.  In the article, Fr. Martin uses as his starting point three terms found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church's presentation of the church's LGBTQ-related teachings.  Those terms are respect, compassion and sensitivity.  Fr. Martin calls on both the Catholic church's hierarchy and the LGBTQ community to engage with one another, using those three powerful ideas to guide their approach.

Here is one snippet, from a passage in which Fr. Martin is urging Catholic leaders to treat LGBTQ Catholics with compassion:
Church leaders also need to stand for their L.G.B.T. brothers and sisters when they are persecuted. In many parts of the world, L.G.B.T. persons are liable, again in the words of the catechism, to appalling incidents of “unjust discrimination”—to prejudice, to violence and even to murder. In some countries, you can be jailed for being gay or having same-sex relations and murdered for being a gay leader. In those countries the institutional church has a moral duty to stand up for their brothers and sisters, publicly. Remember, the catechism says “every sign of unjust discrimination” must be avoided. Helping someone, standing up for someone when they are being beaten, is part of compassion. It is part of being a disciple of Jesus Christ. If you doubt that read the parable of the good Samaritan (Lk 10:25-37). 
Closer to home, what would it mean for the church in the United States to say, when needed, “It is wrong to treat the L.G.B.T. community like this”? Catholic leaders regularly publish statements defending—as they should—refugees and migrants, the poor, the homeless, the unborn. This is one way to stand with people: by putting yourself out there, even taking heat for them.
The address is a call to respectful dialogue by both parties.  It's a request that strikes me as both reasonable and modest: let's try to improve the relationship, and the way to do that is by talking to one another and, even more importantly, listening to one another.

So Fr. Martin's pastoral initiative is about building bridges and fostering peace; but it seems that peacemakers are blessed only in the kingdom of heaven, not here in the realm of culture wars. In retrospect, what has happened to Martin ever since he has begun calling for respect and dialogue shouldn't surprise us, but it's still disappointing: Martin has been reviled, especially by right wing Catholics.  The most highly publicized aspect of that revilement are the Catholic institutions, including Catholic University of America's seminary, Cafod, the Order of the Holy Sepulchre, and the diocese of Metuchen, NJ, that have rescinded speaking invitations to Martin, apparently because of pressure from right wing Catholic activists.

That outfits like Church Militant and LifeSiteNews are attacking Martin probably is par for the course.  But the criticism is more widespread.  Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia, in a blog post that deplores the sort of incivility in the church that has been heaped on Martin, and which overall was pretty respectful toward Martin, offered this critique of what Martin has been writing and saying:
[B]efore we prematurely enter another name on our list of Catholic martyrs, we should remember that Fr. Martin’s book is not above legitimate, serious criticism that has nothing to do with ad hominem rancor. 
Some might suggest that disputes over Building a Bridge, given its call for closer dialogue with the LGBT community, are really about whether we’re willing to eliminate judgmentalism from Church life. But that’s simply wrong. Clear judgment, tempered by mercy but faithful to Scripture and constant Church teaching, is an obligation of Catholic discipleship—especially on moral issues, and especially in Catholic scholarship. The perceived ambiguities in some of Fr. Martin’s views on sexuality have created much of the apprehension and criticism surrounding his book. There’s nothing vindictive in respectfully but firmly challenging those inadequacies. Doing less would violate both justice and charity.
At the same blog, affiliated with First Things, writer Dan Hitchens offered his take on Martin's "perceived ambiguities", in a post entitled, "Fr. Martin Does Not Actually Say".  After reviewing a  small and cherry-picked sample of Martin's statements over the years, he observes:
[T]here are two ways of staying within the bounds of Church teaching. There is the Catholic approach, which is to affirm these teachings as perennially, immutably true. And there is a very different approach, which Samuel Johnson once described in the context of the Church of England’s Thirty-Nine Articles: Some Anglicans, he told Boswell, “have considered them to be only articles of peace, that is to say, you are not to preach against them.” 
The simplest explanation, I suggest, is that this is Fr. James Martin’s attitude. He will not preach directly against certain of the Church’s teachings. But will he affirm them as true?
The implication (accusation) seems clear enough: Martin is a heterodox Catholic who coyly declines to explicitly state that he doesn't agree with the church's controversial and difficult teachings on LGBTQ matters, but issues plenty of winks and nods to audiences who would be receptive to that sort of heterodoxy.  When we consider that he is a Jesuit, and that he seems comfortable in the company of show biz types like Colbert - well, those factors help color the portrait of James Martin, Liberal Dissident.

In my view, the most straightforward response to that accusation is simply to read the text of the speech that Martin gave to New Ways Ministry.  Martin's metaphor throughout that talk (and, I assume, the book - at this writing, I haven't yet read it) is that the church is a bridge that bears two-way traffic; he calls on the church hierarchy to travel on the bridge toward the LGBTQ community - and he also calls on the LGBTQ community to make the same journey toward the church authorities.  In my opinion, everything he writes in that speech is impeccably Catholic.

Now Martin has authored an article that appears in the April 30 issue of America.  Martin writes it as sort of a FAQ that addresses some questions that tend to come up in his speaking engagements.  Whether he intended it as a reply to those who imply he is heterodox, he doesn't say; but as such a response, I view it as decisive.  Here is one representative passage:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church also states that gays and lesbians can and should approach “Christian perfection” through chastity, with such supports as “the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace.” In other words, gays and lesbians, the catechism states, can live holy lives. 
Needless to say, all these considerations rule out same-sex marriage. Indeed, official church teaching rules out any sort of sexual activity outside the marriage of a man and a woman—thus the church’s prohibitions on activities like premarital sex, adultery and masturbation.
If there is winking and nodding going on here, I haven't detected it.  As a straightforward and clear statement of Catholic teaching and belief, it would be difficult to find a better example.  To be sure, Martin also (again following the Catechism) takes care to emphasize (again) that the church must treat gays and lesbians with respect, compassion and sensitivity.  And he writes an excellent passage on how Francis's theme of pastoral accompaniment is one way that this can be lived out in the church.

I consider that this latest article from Martin conclusively refutes anyone who would accuse him of heterodoxy.  On the contrary: Martin has set a standard here for teaching Catholicism in a clear,  respectful and generous style that is well grounded in Catholic sources.  His critics would do well to emulate him.

I admire James Martin.  Writing and speaking publicly about the divisions between the Catholic hierarchy and the LGBTQ community is an act of courage.  It's courageous for a priest to point out to the Catholic hierarchy its shortcomings on this topic and call it to responsibility.  It's also courageous to urge LGBTQ leaders and activists to treat the church hierarchy with respect, compassion and sensitivity.  Martin has pursued a very difficult course here, in service to peacemaking, and it seems fair to say that he has suffered for it.  Archbishop Chaput may not be ready yet to add Martin's name to the canon of martyrs, but he's on my list of holy Catholics.


30 comments:

  1. It seems to me that it is basically the position of the Catholic Church that there should not be an "LGBT community." I do not understand the point of trying to build a bridge. The following is from the CDF document Some Considerations Concerning the Response to Legislative Proposals on the Non-Discrimination of Homosexual Persons:

    But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase” (no. 10).

    It is deplorable what has happened to Fr. James Martin, but unless there actually is some winking and nodding on his part regarding the idea that same-sex relationships and same-sex marriage constitute "behavior to which no one has any conceivable right," then it is difficult for me to see what Martin hopes to accomplish. Why would the LGBT community, which basically defines itself according to behavior the Catholic Church unequivocally condemns, expect out of building a bridge between the Church and itself?

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    1. "Why would the LGBT community, which basically defines itself according to behavior the Catholic Church unequivocally condemns, expect out of building a bridge between the Church and itself?"

      David - here might be James Martin's answer, lifted from the New Ways Ministry speech:

      "So first of all, listen. On all matters, not just L.G.B.T. issues. The episcopacy speaks with authority and draws from a great well of tradition. When bishops speak on matters like, but not confined to, love, forgiveness, mercy and caring for the poor and marginalized, the unborn, the homeless, prisoners, refugees and so on, they are drawing not only from the Gospels, but from the spiritual treasury of the church’s tradition. Oftentimes, especially on social justice issues, you may find that they will challenge you with a wisdom that you will not hear anywhere else in the world."

      FWIW, that document from which you're quoting is from 1992, if I'm not mistaken. Church teaching develops. I don't think you hear that same tone emanating from Rome during Francis's tenure.

      All Martin is advocating, it seems to me, is discussion, engagement, relationship building. What is objectionable about that?

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    2. Jim, you say: "FWIW, that document from which you're quoting is from 1992, if I'm not mistaken. Church teaching develops."

      How has Church teaching on homosexuality, same-sex marriage, and the rights of gay people "developed" since 1992? The Catechism (from which Martin quotes) says the following:

      ********************
      2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

      2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

      2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
      ********************

      It should be noted that the Church does not consider it "unjust" discrimination to deny gay people housing. The official position, so far as I am aware, has not changed, which is to say if gay people simply hide their orientation (presumably by ceasing to identify as gay), then discrimination is unlikely to be a problem.

      Why should the LGBT community expect to profit from engaging in "bridge building" when the Church maintains all of the above? Its there some hope of a change in Church teaching on homosexuality? What does the Church hope to learn from dialogue with the LGBT community?

      What if the LGBT community characterized the position of the Church on homosexuality as "grave depravity"? Would the Church say, "Ok, fine. But let's build bridges." Unless there is some hope of change in Church teaching, any kind of "outreach" to gay people is like outreach to prostitutes, or pedophiles, or serial rapists. The position of the Church is that gay people are "disordered," their behavior is gravely depraved, and they cannot be objectively good and decent persons until they cease to define themselves by "behavior to which no one has any conceivable right."


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    3. Another paragraph from the CDF:

      ********************
      12. Homosexual persons, as human persons, have the same rights as all persons including the right of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity (cf. no. 10). Among other rights, all persons have the right to work, to housing, etc. Nevertheless, these rights are not absolute. They can be legitimately limited for objectively disordered external conduct. This is sometimes not only licit but obligatory. This would obtain moreover not only in the case of culpable behavior but even in the case of actions of the physically or mentally ill. Thus it is accepted that the state may restrict the exercise of rights, for example, in the case of contagious or mentally ill persons, in order to protect the common good.
      **********************

      Objectively disordered external conduct, in the eyes of the Church, most certainly be entering into a same-sex marriage.

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  2. "It should be noted that the Church does not consider it "unjust" discrimination to deny gay people housing."

    ... or at least whoever issued that instruction 26 years ago didn't.

    I'm in the church. I'd consider housing discrimination unjust. I'm nearly certain my cardinal does, too, although I can't quickly point to anything official he's written about it. But if there was a case of such discrimination around there, I'd be willing to picket or write letters or do whatever else seems like an appropriate response - and I think he would, too (really).

    My point is, teaching develops. And then, sometime in the indeterminate future, someone in Rome gets around to writing something about the new teaching - or not. But the change is real even if it's not issued under CDF letterhead.

    And change is not always top-down. Here is one example that Martin cites in his New Ways Ministry speech:

    "How can you be sensitive to a person’s situation if you don’t know them? So one invitation is for the hierarchy to come to know [LGBT persons] as friends.

    "Cardinal Christof Schönborn, the archbishop of Vienna, reminded us of this at the meeting of the Synod of Bishops on the family, when he spoke of a gay couple he knew who had transformed his understanding of L.G.B.T. people. He even praised same-sex unions. The cardinal said, “[O]ne shares one's life, one shares the joys and sufferings, one helps one another. We must recognize that this person has made an important step for his own good and for the good of others, even though, of course, this is not a situation that the church can consider regular.” He also overruled a priest in his archdiocese who had prohibited a man in a same-sex union from serving on a parish council. That is, Cardinal Schönborn stood with him. Much of this came from his experience of, knowledge of and friendship with L.G.B.T. people. Cardinal Schönborn said simply, “We must accompany.”"

    I'd argue that Schonborn is absolutely wearing his teaching hat with those remarks.

    And note that Martin isn't calling for sweeping changes in church legislation. All he's asking for is what happened with Schonborn and this gay couple: get to know one another. Hang out. Buy each other a round of biers at the local Rathskeller. Share some joys and fears with one another. In other words, just have a friggin' friendship. Doesn't seem too much to ask. I don't agree with my friends about everything, and nobody expects church authorities and LGBT persons to agree about everything.

    That's a different paradigm that what you seem to be bringing up. You written, a couple of times now variations on this question: "Why should the LGBT community expect to profit from engaging in "bridge building" when the Church maintains all of the above? " I'd ask, why does anyone have to profit at all? I don't have friendships for profit. That wouldn't actually be a friendship. Martin isn't proposing the sort of transactional relationship you seem to have in mind. He's proposing respect, compassion and sensitivity - from both parties.

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  3. Jim said, "The address is a call to respectful dialogue by both parties. It's a request that strikes me as both reasonable and modest: let's try to improve the relationship, and the way to do that is by talking to one another and, even more importantly, listening to one another."
    Sounds reasonable to me. A bridge has to start somewhere. I don't see any point in arguing about who has to lay the first plank.
    It is happening very slowly, but I believe the Church's understanding of LGTB issues is evolving. As Jim observed, that document from 1992 would probably not be written in the same way today.
    I am intrigued by the notion of "articles of peace" mentioned from the quote by Dan Hitchens in First Things. Apparently he is not in favor of it. But I think it is a useful concept. Not arguing against something, but also not necessarily wholeheartedly endorsing it.
    For those who think no progress or change can be made, think how recently there was a teaching that "...error has no rights", and how now the teaching would more be stated, "...error has no rights, but people do." It's a distinction that matters.

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  4. Respectful dialog? Maybe on the part of SOME individuals but the Church at large? Not so long as the positions outlined by David above remain official. As for me and mine, we have gotten long beyond looking for respect from what I continue to think is a sect among sects.

    Interestingly enough, when we approached our Episcopal priest friend to witness our marriage, he reminded us that he was initially ordained in the Roman church. He smiled and said that, if one takes Catholic theology seriously, he was a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek. So, we WERE married by a Catholic priest after all. Not that that fact had any meaning to us, outside of an occasion for a good giggle.

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  5. Pardon me for being blunt, but as far as I am concerned, implying that CDF documents are old and outdated is laughable. One of the most offensive CDF documents to the LGBT community, Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons (the so-called Halloween Letter), was written by then Prefect of the CDF, Cardinal Ratzinger, and ordered published by Pope John Paul II. As you may recall, one of them was elected pope and the other has been canonized. Here's an interesting document outlining the weight of various CDF documents. One of the documents on which the later ones draw is Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics, which as a declaration carries significant weight.

    And as is quite obvious, if any documents from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith are old and outdated, new ones can be issued.

    There are two points I would like to make regarding the Church and the LGBT community. First, the Church is eminently capable, when it wants to, of speaking quite definitively about its own positions. The LGBT community has no such ability. Nevertheless, I have done a very quick survey of some of the mainstream LGBT organizations and publications (HRC, National LGBTQ Task Force, and The Advocate) and coverage of Father Martin appears to be quite favorable. It is from Catholic publications and organizations that the attacks on Father Martin are being launched. So if the LGBT community wants to enter into dialogue with the Catholic Church, who will represent the Church? Who speaks for the Church on this issue? A great many people within the Church do not think it is Father Martin.

    Finally, if there is no hope whatsoever (and it seems to me that is the case) that the Church will alter its insistence that homosexual behavior is "grave depravity," never to be accepted, and something to which there is no conceivable right, then what is there in the Church for LGBT people?

    It seems to be widely (but not "officially") accepted in the Church that it is a matter of conscience as to whether a married Catholic may use contraception. If there could be some kind of agreement about the primacy of conscience for LGBT people, that would be a good thing. But the Church's stand that homosexuality is "objectively disordered" seems to leave no room for individual conscience.

    One further note. What message comes from the Church in cases where teachers and other employees are fired for entering into same-sex marriages, where adoption agencies shut down rather than consider same-sex couples as prospective parents, or spousal benefits are denied to same-sex spouses?

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    1. By the way, there are many LGBT people who continue to self-identify as Catholic and who remain in the Church either silently or in organizations like Dignity. Many of them are even priests, bishops, and cardinals!

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  6. Jim Pauwels says, "All he's asking for is what happened with Schonborn and this gay couple: get to know one another. Hang out. Buy each other a round of biers at the local Rathskeller."

    Freudian slip?

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    1. Another by the way—sorry!

      It is fine to hang out and buy each other beers, but should a Catholic mother and/or father attend their son or daughter's same-sex wedding? I can't find any advice from a Catholic source that says it's okay.

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    2. If you go to a Rathskeller, you will order bier. Beer is for bars and taverns.

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    3. About whether a parent should attend a son or daughter's same-sex wedding; if I had that situation I wouldn't be asking anyone's permission. I would just do what l felt was right, which would be to support my child.

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  7. Anecdotal evidence only, but lots of cradle Catholics at Mom's memorial service, and all of them pretty much ignore the Church's position on homosexuality. Some have homosexual kids. They are accepting of them ... and they accept why they left the Church for other denominations. Yes, they have gone to gay weddings. This just does not seem to be a big deal for any of them. I think the cradle Catholic in the pew made their peace with contraception and other pelvic issues long long ago.

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  8. David said:

    Unless there is some hope of change in Church teaching, any kind of "outreach" to gay people is like outreach to prostitutes, or pedophiles, or serial rapists. The position of the Church is that gay people are "disordered," their behavior is gravely depraved, and they cannot be objectively good and decent persons until they cease to define themselves by "behavior to which no one has any conceivable right."

    My response:

    Prostitution, pedophilia, and serial rape are illegal and widely regarded in society as deeply immoral. Homosexually is not illegal (except in some countries) and is no longer regarded as deeply immoral by most people in this country (but not all).

    Masturbation, and premarital sex (as well as homosexual activity) are considered always sinful in official church teaching. Most Catholics in the USA no longer consider these behaviors as automatically sinful but rather consider the circumstances. Therefore most Catholics do not shun people who masturbate, engage in premarital sexual activity, or in homosexual activity.

    The general official church teaching on sexually is not received by the most Catholics because of the celibate priesthood, and more recently the sexual abuse scandals which make it lack credibility. Many Catholics now see the Church as the people not the clergy.

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  9. One of the first stories I ever covered was a speech by Norman Cousins, legendary editor of The Saturday Review and, later, promoter of laughter as medicine. His theme was, "It's easier to be run over in the middle of the road than on one of the sides." Fr. Jim is learning the truth of that.

    The magisterium of the Church, meanwhile, is talking about LBGT folks the way it used to talk about usurers. Just sayin'.

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  10. I agree that it is nigh impossible to build a bridge between the LGBTQ community and the magisterium. As for the People of God and LGBTQ, there're bridges all around. Like Manhattan.

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  11. I now feel obligated to read Building a Bridge, but without having done so yet, and only based on what Jim Pauwels has said, I am guessing that Father Martin's message is not, "Don't worry. Catholics don't really believe what the Church teaches about sexuality."

    It seems to me that if the Catholic Church has been significantly wrong for two millennia about human sexuality (indissolubility of marriage, prohibition on contraception, condemnation of premarital sex, classification of homosexual acts as "grave depravity"), then the claims the Catholic Church makes about its teaching authority are difficult if not impossible to defend. The Church is not what it claims to be or what I was taught it was. I am familiar with A Church That Can and Cannot Change, but any significant retreat by the Church on its teachings on sexuality would make any chapter in Noonan's book pale in significance. (In fact, it seems to me, it would make the whole book pale in significance.)

    According to Pew Research Polls, 67% of American Catholics now support same-sex marriage. That is heartening. But the "magisterium" (including Pope Francis) still condemns it. And I don't think Father Martin in any way challenges the magisterium (whatever he may believe personally). Very little in the way of bridge building between the American Catholic laity and the LGBT is necessary. But I don't see any other way of describing Catholics who are accepting of same-sex relationships or same-sex marriage as being in dissent.

    It seems to me that the first order of business for the Church would be some bridge building between dissenting Catholics and the magisterium!

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    1. Jack Rakosky mentions some things above; prostitution, pedophilia, and rape, which the Church has always considered wrong and which are still considered wrong. I would add to the list some behaviors, sins if you will, which both gay and straight Christians would agree are wrong. This would include promiscuity, infidelity or betrayal in any relationship; any exploitive relationship, especially one in which one of the partners doesn't have the power to say "no". The magisterium and the LGTB community could agree that anything which objectifies another person, or even oneself, is sinful. My point is that there isn't an unbridgeable chasm as far as what we understand as moral behavior.

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  12. Stanley Kopacz, you say: "I agree that it is nigh impossible to build a bridge between the LGBTQ community and the magisterium. As for the People of God and LGBTQ, there're bridges all around. Like Manhattan."

    In the Introduction to the Revised and Expanded Edition, which I have just begun, Father Martin says:

    Second, I realized that I needed to be clearer about one specific topic: where the onus for the bridge building lies. The first edition of this book expressed that obliquely but not directly, because I thought it was obvious.

    So let me say it more clearly: the institutional church bears the main responsibility for the ministry of dialogue and reconciliation, because it is the institutional church that has made LGBT Catholics feel marginalized, not the other way around. It is true that public actions of a few LGBT groups have targeted the institutional church, and provoked strong reactions, but in terms of making people feel marginalized, it is the clergy and other church officials who bear responsibility.


    To me, "institutional Church" and "magisterium," for the purpose of this current discussion, come close to being synonyms.

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    1. "So let me say it more clearly: the institutional church bears the main responsibility for the ministry of dialogue and reconciliation, because it is the institutional church that has made LGBT Catholics feel marginalized, not the other way around."

      Yep. On occasion it's necessary to state the obvious.

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  13. I feel that the majority of clergy are trying to be pastoral in their interactions with LGBT people. However there are some others to whom I would like to give some simple advice. They don't have to change or misrepresent church teaching. But for the love of God, try not to be an a**hole. Don't do things like this. Or this. In these instances I see an excess of concern about "scandal" and "public sin". The first example is an instance of face-palm stupidity and mean-spiritedness in what a priest posted on social media. Especially in the second example the public sin would be cruelty to the surviving partner of a deceased person.

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    1. Sorry, bad link for the first example. Try this.

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    2. "But for the love of God, try not to be an a**hole."

      Yes, that is usually good advice for living - didn't I read something like that in "Everything I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten"? :-)

      I think we can push it a step further: Martin is able to proceed on this topic from a reputation as a trustworthy and honest conversation partner. That allows him to speak truth to power credibly. So we might advise folks, "Be authentic, be empathetic, be a listener. Most important of all, be a friend."

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  14. The purpose of sexuality is continuation of the species. There is a system and it works. Statistically. It is quite possible that a system that produced only straight individuals might not be as successful overall as what we actually have. As an engineer, I understand and accept tradeoffs. I think there is greater offense in bypassing sexuality with artificial insemination. Gay people having sex does nothing to frustrate the continuation of humanity.

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    1. Same goes for in vitro procedures; I hear now the latest advance is a three way cross. The purpose is to get rid of a defect in mitochondrial DNA, but too much tinkering usually has unintended consequences. Better to adopt or foster. I know, easy for me to say.

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    2. ONE of the purposes of sexuality is continuation of the species - it is not the only purpose of sexuality. For human beings, reproduction is not necessarily even the most important purpose of sexuality, even though it may be for much of the animal kingdom.

      As far as in vitro and artificial insemination go, there are millions of families who consider these relatively recent advances in reproductive medicine to be a gift that helped them bear children whom they love as gifts from God.

      I know several young couples who have been fortunate enough to have children with the help of medical advances - couples I know very well in my own extended family and in the families of close friends. The universal emotion when hearing the news of the impending births was joy - not condemnation or judgment. Apparently, institutional religion (outside of the RCC of course) is starting to come around to understanding in vitro and artificial insemination more positively - as gifts from God, rather than as something sinful.

      here


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    3. Please click on "here" to link to the story.

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  15. I don't think of in vitro fertilization as something sinful as I am concerned about cumulative effects on the human genome. Reproduction may not be the only reason for sex but it is certainly the primary purpose. If sex is no longer necessary for reproduction, it will go away like flying for dodos. Straight sex and gay sex will go away. Better to find out why there are fertility problems. Sperm counts have been dropping and no one knows why. However, we do have a bad population problem and less efficient reproduction might not be a bad thing overall though it's a sadness for individuals.

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    1. Endocrine disruptors in the environment, and pesticide metabolites are a couple of things which may be implicated in lowered sperm counts.

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