"And I want to just thank everybody. And, in particular, God. I want to just say, we love you, God, and we love our great military. Protect them. God bless the Middle East. God bless Israel and God bless America. Thank you very much. Thank you."
Well he got his big beautiful parade. Now he has an unforced error, his own big beautiful war that he didn't inherit. So much for an end to forever wars. It doesn't appear that he consulted with anyone, and in fact ignored his own SecDef. Congress wasn't consulted. Constitutional authority? Pffft!
Pope Leo this morning: "Every member of the international community has a moral responsibility: to stop the tragedy of war before it becomes an irreparable abyss," Pope Leo said during his weekly prayer with pilgrims. " "No armed victory can compensate for the pain of mothers, the fear of children, the stolen future. Let diplomacy silence the weapons, let nations chart their future with peace efforts, not with violence and bloody conflicts," he added. Doesn't appear that anyone is listening, it seems already to be an irreparable abyss.
Good analysis of Iran's allies, such as they are, and how this might play out. Am guessing that Pakistan is rethinking its reported plan to nominate Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize.
This country has zero moral stature and does not have the standing to tell anyone what to do or to bomb anyone. It’s not that we used to be good and now we’re bad, gone astray. I hate to say it but this has always been a major part of our country’s makeup. It’s just coming to a final denouement.
We are a nation that attracts and nurtures exploiters, con men, and religious fanatics. We do have an admirable constitutional system if we have the will to follow it and hold leaders accountable.
We need to reassess what benefits we get from supporting Israel, especially when a thug like Netanyahu is at the helm.
I wish the "Taco" thing hadn't got started. "Trump always chickens out". It was like a dare. You can't chicken out of dropping a bomb and getting into a war when you've already done it. He had to prove himself to be the king of the hill.
Iran is far from being Hitler. Judging by their fruits, Israel is more similar to Nazi Germany, and, with their ruthless dedication to Israeli expansion while having nuclear weapons, pose a greater threat to the world than Iran. Iran showed restraint while Israel is out of control. As for Hitler, he might have been preemptively stopped by the WWI victors acting more graciously after the war. Even after Germany surrendered, Britain prevented food entering Germany causing starvation and death in the populace. The Germans remembered. As for Iran, we overthrew their secular democratic regime in the 50’s at the behest of British oil interests. It would be best if we started tending to the needs of our own people, and stop fomenting disorder throughout the world.
"It would be best if we started tending to the needs of our own people, and stop fomenting disorder throughout the world." I would agree with that, and while we're at it, put back USAID and try to actually help some people who aren't us. It was a minimal part of our budget One of the things Trump ran on was "no more forever wars". Of course it was a lie and a gigantic bait and switch like everything he says.
"Tend to our own needs," yes. One of those needs is curbing religious nuts currently banning books. It makes me laugh when the MAGAs jabber about freedom and then do this stuff:
Trump is a turd, and I have a visceral reaction against everything he does and says. However, a case might be made for destroying Iran's uranium refining plants:
If international oversight was not working.
If Iran was capable and willing to supply rogue groups with weapons.
If destroying refineries prevented Israelis from causing catastrophic collateral damage and death in civilian areas.
If taking out uranium refineries has a good chance of bringing Iran to the conclusion that it cannot continue to foment instability through Hamas, Hezbollah, and similar thru out the region.
But neither Trump or his idiots seem capable of making that case.
They are already backing off the claim that they destroyed any potential nuclear capability. The latest rumors are that Iran moved them well before the attacks.
I am interested in just war teachings because I am wondering if preventing something worse when not attacked directly qualifies as “ just”.
I have no idea how much of a threat to the world Iran might be. Definitely not in the Nazi era or Russian takeover of Eastern Europe realms in the 1930s and 1940s. As far as our actions go, my fears are based in my total lack of trust in the ability of trump and his sycophant minions to make rational decisions.
Yes, I understand the lack of trust. Republicans have lost all credibility as responsible decision makers by cleaving to a character like Trump. Trump never answers the questions that reasonable people might raise and expect to get answers to. He just makes noise.
Imo, there should have been some tough talk with Israel before we sent the bunker blasters: "We're not taking out the refineries unless you cease bombing Iran. You're running amok with weapons we provide, and your salt-the-earth tactics are making us look bad."
In my view, the just-war doctrine offers good general guidelines, but isn't always helpful in specific situations. War invites a lot of "did we actually prevent something worse" second-guessing for which there are never definitive answers.
I also don't think it's helpful to apply some kind of "are they as bad as Hitler?" standard. What constitutes "as bad as Hitler"?
Hitler wanted to rule Europe and all of its countries, including Russia. He hoped to then attack the US. His attempts to achieve this goal resulted in millions of military and civilian deaths, and he used the most reprehensible means possible to eliminate undesirables - Jews, homosexuals, children born with congenital disabilities .the Roma people, old and infirm people. I don’t see Iran having similar ambitions. I don’t even see Israel having ambitions of the same scope. They want to eliminate Hamas and Hezbollah and others they see as out to destroy them but they don’t seem to want to kill all Palestinians or take control of the entire Middle East . But who knows - Netanyahu is pretty evil and we’re supporting him.
Yes, I understand what Hitler did. But do we have to wait for a country to go that far before we take up arms against it?
I'm not advocating for going to war with Iran or even countenancing the military strikes. Just saying there may be a reasonable case to be made, and Trump is not making it. Chalk up another of his many many disservices to the public.
Agree. We should not wait until we reach the Hitler danger tipping point. Im grateful that I don’t have to make these decisions and I honestly don’t know enough, or have enough real data, to judge the current action. I do know that I don’t trust Trump nor any of his high level military and national security staff. I’m not sure that any of them are more knowledgeable than I am or better qualified to decide when it’s appropriate to drop bombs on other countries. Trump is driven by politics and polls. He’s unhappy with the latest polls. Bombing Iran is a great distraction to take the media focus off his many current failing policies and falling approval ratings. That scares me a lot.
It must be remembered that Iran has allowed nuclear inspectors on site and entered into a nuclear agreement with the US that Trump dissolved.. The Israelis don't even admit to having nuclear weapons. However, they did imprison a whistle blower for twenty years for exposing what they don't have. Israel's arsenal may be 100-200 warheads and they are capable of causing worldwide destruction. Backed into a corner, I would be much more afraid of Israel than Iran. After all, they've already exterminated hundreds of thousands of civilians, and have shown the bottomless racist cruelty at the core of zionism. They are demonstrably capable of anything. Iran has shown restraint. Israel can't lash out enough at its neighbors. and there are thousands of nuclear weapons in the world. We either get total nuclear disarmament or what's another country with them. North Korea is also scarier than Iran. Possible nuclear weapon development is just another excuse for wreaking havoc.
This Brookings paper from 2013 may be of interest. It's comparatively short and readable. Written during President Obama's 2nd term when he was using diplomacy to try to stop or at least delay Iran's becoming a nuclear power, it looks at the Iran/Iraq War of the 1980s as a seminal event that set Middle East perceptions of the US as a trustworthy or untrustworthy partner. It seems positively prophetic in certain passages. Worth a read.
The Brookings piece has colored my views of what a likely outcome is of the US's intervention against Iran. Considering that President Trump is at the helm, I think it's likely enough that both Iran and the Israel will end up concluding that the US is an untrustworthy partner.
“In November 2013, Donald Trump tweeted, "Remember that I predicted a long time ago that President Obama will attack Iran because of his inability to negotiate properly—not skilled!".
I don't know to what extent the State Department, since the DOGE purge, still has regional experts who can brief the administration on the historical perspectives. And even if it does, Trump is breathtakingly incurious about that type of info and won't sit still for briefings. He lives from one "what I want right now" moment to the next.
It was interesting to watch JD Vance during's Trump's three-minute address. While Hegseth and Rubio were nodding away at key points, Vance looked pretty grim. His political career could conceivably last decades beyond Trump's death. He may not be quite so impervious to ramifications.
One clings to whatever shreds of hope one can muster ...
I've been contemplating starting a separate thread on this topic, but in brief:
* If the American attack has delayed, or even destroyed, Iran's ability to create nuclear weapons, then that is surely a desirable outcome.
* As we understand the outcome of the attack today, the sheer competence of the American military operation can only further increase its prestige in the international community. I don't think any of us here are hawks, but it has to be thought desirable for America's adversaries to fear our military.
* Regardless of whether or not we think the attack was prudent, we should be concerned that Trump apparently went about the attack illegally. As I understand it, the War Powers Act gives the president some authority to engage against an adversary without requiring a formal Congressional declaration of war. But that Act requires that the president obtain Congress's authorization prior to taking action. Trump did not do so, despite having ample time to do so, and despite the Pentagon pretty clearly having spent considerable time planning this operation.
* Is it possible to apply the traditional just war criteria to this US action against Iran's nuclear weapon capability? I think that depends on if you believe the US and Iran already have been in some sort of a long-simmering, low-level proxy war already. Both sides have engaged in various acts of provocation, including (on Iran's side) attacks against our troops, attacks on commercial activity, cyber-attacks, and of course, if one's memory is long enough, the taking of American hostages; and on the US's part, assassinations and the imposition of economic sanctions, as well as whatever we did for and against Iran during the Iran/Iraq war (cf my previous comment). And of course, Iran has, through its proxies Hamas and Hezbollah, been waging war on our ally Israel for decades. Personally, I don't think Iran's theocratic leadership is trustworthy, and President Trump's determination that Iran shouldn't be allowed to achieve nuclear weaponry is strategically correct and morally right.
Eh. I'm not at all convinced that the attack destroyed Iran's capability to create nuclear weapons. If the Pentagon spent a lot of time planning this operation, so did Iran spend a lot of time figuring out how to protect its nuclear capabilities from this kind of attack. Given that the administration gutted it's intelligence agencies and appointed incompetents as leaders of them, and alienated our allies who might have given us information why would anyone conclude that we had accurate information?
Off topic: Stay safe in the heat. This should be the last overnight with lows around 80, at least until the next heat dome builds in later July. It's been over 95 for three days. And as if we don't have enough depressing news, here's some gummint info on heat related death. Not sure how info about climate change is slipping thru. Must be purging the gay stuff first. Read it while you still can.
I just went out to get the mail. It’s a steambath. “Only”94 now, feels like 105 according to the weather app. I believe it. Tomorrow it’s supposed to hit 100 with a feels like temp of 108. You’re not alone there in the Midwest . We’re getting it too.
We had three days of 90 plus degrees and a high wind. It was like a blowtorch. Thankfully today is down in the 70s and cloudy. A relief, I could actually go for a walk. Supposed to be like this for several days.
They had scheduled a Corpus Christi procession yesterday. Because of the heat they changed it to one loop around the block and conclusion in St. Bonaventure's church, the largest of the three in our group..The church was packed, mostly with people who had attended the Spanish language Mass right before the procession.
The our mayor, who is also our mail carrier, opens the village hall as a cooling station on heat advisory days. I should take some iced tea down there tomorrow if it's another scorcher.
Your mayor sounds like a decent person. Not sure what they will do here for those without AC. Yesterday they closed the Washington Monument because of the heat. With all the tourists in town I’m guessing that the museums on the Mall will be jam packed, but not the outdoor attractions like the Monument, Lincoln and Jefferson Memorials etc. it’s supposed to hit 100 today.Glad it’s cooled off in Nebraska, Katherine!
The weather even made the home page of the WaPo today
By Dana Munro, Afia Barrie, Jenna Portnoy and Ian Livingston How hot was it in D.C. on Monday? So hot, the National Park Service closed the Washington Monument out of concern for the safety of visitors and staff. So hot, Metro slowed train cars on the outdoor portions of its tracks because heat causes them to expand, posing another safety risk, while Baltimore canceled its free water taxi service beneath the blazing sun. How hot was it in D.C. on Monday? Try “excessive,” meteorologists said, with the actual temperature approaching a 37-year-old record of 98 degrees, while the humidity added a heat index that made it feel like it was 110 degree?
Sounds awful out in DC! I should check in with my cousin in McLean. I blew the last of our retirement savings on central air after Raber's heart attack, though we'd lived without it for 35 years. The AC also helps filter the bad air we've been getting from Canadian wildfires, tho I am still wheezy. Guessing a week of Prednisone is in my future. Love that stuff; better than coffee for a pick-me-up. Cats are yowling to go out on the screen porch to lie in the sun this morning. I will haul them back inside by noon.
I expect the picture of what is going on with Israel-Iran to shift around a lot in the coming days. It looks to me like Israel has planned to strike Iran for years, that Israeli intelligence said this might not be a bad time to take out the uranium plants given current weaknesses in the regime, and that Netanyahu took that intelligence as a "go." He told Trump what he was going to do in April and tried to talk Trump into joining. Trump said he preferred a diplomatic move, but once Netanyahu started bombing, Trump decided to follow suit.
Now Trump says he's brokered a cease fire (dust off the Nobel Peace Prize!), but it seems kinda shaky, and he's got NORAD doing exercises in Washington just in case.
Right. The ceasefire is a big surprise, at least to me. I imagine it will hold until one side or the other thinks there is an advantage to ending it.
I'm prepared to give Trump a little bit of credit as a peacemaker. I think he sees flexing of American military muscle as a way to prod recalcitrant countries to the negotiating table. But let's see how events unfold. His ability to screw things up is matchless.
George Will had it about right this morning (aside from his tiresome allusions to "Streetcar Named Desire" and General Yamamoto):
"Possible reasons Donald Trump decided to join Israel’s attack include this: He saw the success of Israeli virtuosity and he hungered to jump in at the head of the parade. He is less a military maven than a drum major, and his public life of flippancies about serious matters has not earned him the benefit of any doubts."
It was also nice to see Will refrain from blaming Trump and all his works on Democrats for a change.
Iran was talking about blocking the Strait of Hormuz. Maybe that’s why we have a ceasefire. Probably a more effective strategy for Iran than directly targeting Israeli and American bases. Bomb their wallets.
I read that, too. Seemed more like a posturing move by Iranian govt, but who knows.
And hard to know what Iran's religious nut militias might do. These groups and individuals tend to have minds and agendas of their own and are not under tight control by Iran any more than the US controls the Proud Boys or whackadoos like Vance Boelter. They could do all kinds of damage while the Iranians officially claim they're honoring the cease fire.
Weather update here - the electricity is out on our street and nearby. But I can see that there are lights on the houses on the other side of the woods, peaking through the trees. It’s silent - nothing humming, no noise . So peaceful.
The bonus - fireflies! I hadn’t seen any until tonight. It’s so dark outside, hot, humid. Perfect for fireflies.They've been scarce in recent years and last summer we were in California. I’ve never seen fireflies there . Seeing them brings a bit of joy.
Have seen no fireflies this year, but will look tonight. Torrential rain cooled things off. Windows open, ahhh!
But worried about yr power outage. Does your husband rely on any electrical devices or equipment? Dad had an O2 condenser, but a tank in case of power outages. The tank was fussy, and my mom was leery of it, so losing power was always upsetting.
It was a busy day.the power came back on after two hours, around 1 am. Fortunately.it hit 100 today (only 99 yesterday)with a “feels like” temp of 106. Jean my husband doesn’t need life- sustaining equipment dependent on electricity fortunately. His hospital bed needs it to go up and down and to raise the back. Also he has an alternating low air loss mattress to help reduce getting pressure wounds. We went a year without one, after the first stage 4 wound was healed (with 6 months of weekly visits to the Wound Clinic). But a couple of months ago a new one appeared and progressed quickly to stage 4 even though we treated it as directed at home. But it wasn’t enough. I can’t even stand to look at it when we go to the wound center. So having electricity to keep the mattress pump working is important Maintaining the alternating pressure in the mattress is more important than the bed going up or down. But it’s not an immediate life threatening situation as your father’s was.
It surprised me last night that even though the AC wasn’t working, the combination of silence, almost total darkness and fireflies gave me a rare sense of peace and I fell asleep quickly. I hope you all see some fireflies this summer!
Ye gads. If you knew me in real life, you'd know how much snark and resentment and anxiety went along with some of this stuff. Life throws things at you and you learn to deal with the outrageous and the unfair. The trick is to balance it with as much beauty, hilarity, and comfort as you can.
We've been watching a bunch of old BBC productions of Dickens free on Roku and Tubi. I wonder what Dickens might have thought if he could have seen them. Nobody does Awful People like the Brits. Quite a delight.
"Nobody does awful people like the Brits." LOL, I'd have to agree with that. We've been watching some old episodes of Inspector Lewis. Watched one last night that I thought was echoing Brideshead Revisited. Which had some awful people of it's own.
There is a new police procedural series (or at least new to PBS) called Patience which we've been watching. Through the first two episodes, it's been quite good.
We also got sucked into a British procedural drama on Netflix called Department Q - a cold case series. I hope there will be more than one season. The performances are very good, the law enforcement characters are largely likeable, and the mystery is a good one.
I keep wondering what Dickens would have thought of his BBC adaptations--or those of his confreres Eliot, Trollope, Hardy, and etc. The faces they find for these characters--Timothy Spall, Pam Ferris, the late Elizabeth Spriggs, Tom Wilkinson. I swear David Bradley turns up in all of them.
I watched Dept Q because of the location. Scotland. I wasn’t grabbed by it and almost didn’t continue. But I watched the second episode and it eventually caught my interest enough to finish the series. The plot was bizarre. And the characters were not very likable to me except for the Syrian sidekick who was probably a professional torturer in Syria.
We just finished streaming the latest season of Grantchester (season 10). It was enjoyable, as always, with its gorgeous location and likable cast of characters. But it seems to be running out of story lines, which unfortunately happens a lot with series that continue on for years.
My late sister came to DC after college to work for the Congressman from west Los Angeles. After a couple of years she was his top advisor. She started the “go east, young woman” trend in our family. I came four years later to go to grad school. She and her husband introduced my husband to me so I’m still here. Four years later the eldest sister arrived with her family. The Congressional advisor sister helped eldest sister’s husband get a job with the GSA. She left the congressman after getting her law degree, but was always a political junkie. She loved a show on Netflix called Designated Survivor - a DC political series. In her memory, we are now watching that series.
We loved all of the Inspector Lewis mysteries. I was hoping for another series with Lewis’s overeducated sidekick as the Inspector.
Also came on this guy from Minnesota, my hero of the day. Recovering fundiegelical conservative pastor who is taking on Trump without screaming and yelling, just appealing to human decency. And using lessons he learned about Shakespearean tragedy in high school to help explain the dynamics of the Trump administration: https://youtu.be/QNJACbDeLpY?si=i5FEf8Dkf_WgKjHI
I liked his nice calm delivery about the crazy clown show going on in DC. I also like the unspecific but you-know-who-you-are admonishments from Pope Leo. Another clear and humane voice I love to hear these days is Francesca Albanese, international lawyer and UN rapporteur assigned to the Gaza genocide. If only their powerful words had immediate effect.
Jim, I watched the first episode of Patience. It looks interesting. I wonder if it will be as compelling as I found “The Tunnel” to be, featuring an English detective working with an autistic French detective. It’s still streaming on PBS.
Designated Survivor is already running out of ideas, but we will finish it. Some of the plots are spooky though, as they include dysfunctional situations and controversies that are very timely. But the episodes appeared even before trumps first term.
Good video about the insights from Shakespearean tragedy. I'll have to check out Patience, it sounds interesting. We watched Grantchester until we got too annoyed with the Sidney character making bad decisions. I guess he's not on there anymore and they have a different vicar. So maybe we should give it another chance.
Anne, yes, we liked The Tunnel a lot. The series ending kind of broke my heart, though.
Re: political shows: We also really like The Diplomat, which runs on Netflix. Two seasons so far, with a third coming later this year and plans for a fourth. Have you seen it?
Goodness, Katherine, you are way behind. Yes, Sidney got annoying. He left to go to America because he fell in love with the daughter of a visiting American Civil Rights leader and was replaced with a new young, motorcycle riding, vicar with a different set of issues. Now that young vicar, calmed down and married with children, has moved on to pastor an inner city parish in the north, somewhere like Manchester. The twist with vicar #3 is that he has Indian heritage - shocking the white, Anglican locals, so that opens the door to stories of racism in England etc.. You missed a lot of drama with Leonard being exposed as gay, sent to prison for it, and laicized. Leonard is so sweet and nice that you just want him to be allowed to be happy with his partner, Daniel. Lots of ups and downs with the relationships of all the characters. Low key stuff, not grisly or graphic, and so we watch it. But they are running out of plots.
More on political dramas: we also liked the first season of COBRA, although by Season 3 I sort of didn't like it enough to keep watching it.
Back to procedurals with detectives with neuro diverse personalities: I see Professor T has a new season running on Sunday nights around here. We watched the Belgian version with closed captioning a few years ago and were hooked. The British version is quite good, too.
Still watch Grantchester, although my wife likes it better than I. I gave up on All Creatures Great and Small a season or two ago. Also gave up on Call the Midwife a long time ago. It's like ER or Grey's Anatomy, where they just bring in a new crop of nurses and/or doctors every few years and then rehash the same plot lines every few years. The "Chicago" shows (Chicago Med, Chicago Fire, Chicago PD) do the same with their respective professions.
Jim, I’ve seen The Diplomat come up., Maybe try that one too. The characters in Designated Survivor are slowly being killed off or changing jobs after a political scandal or whatever so the actors were apparently losing interest and not renewing their contracts for a new season. Or something.. They have introduced a couple of new regular characters but the show is running out of steam.
I was also heartbroken by the ending of The Tunnel. The French actress was amazing. Broadchurch and Unforgotten were pretty compelling too. Nicola Walker and Olivia Colman are excellent actors also.
I have found that many of the British police procedural/ murder mystery series are too dark for me - too grim, too gritty, and graphically grisly. So I stop watching after a few episodes.,I am an escapist, so the more lighthearted series ( Father Brown, Midsomer Murders, Inspector Lewis, Grantchester type series) appeal to me more. I also liked the quirky Irish murder series called Bad Sisters. It was on Apple TV., We piggyback on various accounts of our sons. Netflix finally kicked us off so now we do have our own subscription. Our eldest has Apple TV and we can access his account l. I also liked the Ted Lasso series (first two seasons) on Apple. My husband didn’t, because he was really disappointed - he really thought it was about soccer, which was just the pretext for the real meaning of the show. So I watched most of that on my own. We have always donated to our local PBS station for streaming , and now may need to up that donation since the government grants are being zeroed out.
Maybe I should watch some Dickens, but I never liked the books as a kid - depressing. Maybe a TV show of Dickens novels would work for me in my old age.
Raber made me watch Prime Suspect long after I was tired of the charmless Jane Tennyson (played by Helen Mirren, not a fan). He loves Slow Horses, which has good characters, though the plots seem needlessly convoluted.
I loved House of Cards, UK and US, until they fired Kevin Spacey in the last US season.
We finished "Our Mutual Friend" and are on "Martin Chuzzlewit." Quite a collection of dimwits in that. "Bleak House" with Jillian Anderson is very good.
I get more out of Dickens on audio or dramatization than reading off the page. Possibly that's because Dickens used to act out his characters and scenes in front of a mirror before he wrote them down.
I thought I loved Dickens when I was assigned to read Great Expectations and Bleak House in college. So I tried some others, but I have to admit I haven't made it through more than I finished. I've given up on Oliver Twist, Dombey and Sons (twice), David Copperfield and the Old Curiosity Shop. I did get through Nicholas Nickleby (a couple of times) and the Pickwick Papers, and enjoyed them. I think, for the serialized novels, he didn't always know how they would turn out when he started writing the first installments for publication.
Gotta say: Jane Austen is a better writer in some ways. The few novels of her I've read seem to sort of hang together better than Dickens'. They both were psychological in their own ways - Austen in giving her protagonists a rich interior life; Dickens in more of a sort of dark, nightmarish way.
When Prime Suspect was in its first run, I thought it was great television. I've checked one or two seasons out of the library in more recent years and didn't think they had aged well. But maybe part of it is that I knew the solutions to the mysteries.
PBS had one season of a Jane Tennyson prequel, when she was as young beat cop - the sort of thing they eventually did with Endeavour / Morse. I would have liked more of the Tennyson prequel, but it never came around again.
I think Dickens can get repetitive. You often see the same stock characters in several novels. Imo, David Copperfield is his best, but that's not a scholarly opinion.
I read two Austen novels per year on a rotating basis for 30 years. A friend and I were talking about Mansfield Park just today. Novelist Lauren Groff has an article about it in the NYT. It's the least popular of her novels, so maybe not surprisingly the one the scholars and critics like to poke at.
Well he got his big beautiful parade. Now he has an unforced error, his own big beautiful war that he didn't inherit. So much for an end to forever wars. It doesn't appear that he consulted with anyone, and in fact ignored his own SecDef. Congress wasn't consulted. Constitutional authority? Pffft!
ReplyDeletePope Leo this morning:
Delete"Every member of the international community has a moral responsibility: to stop the tragedy of war before it becomes an irreparable abyss," Pope Leo said during his weekly prayer with pilgrims. "
"No armed victory can compensate for the pain of mothers, the fear of children, the stolen future. Let diplomacy silence the weapons, let nations chart their future with peace efforts, not with violence and bloody conflicts," he added.
Doesn't appear that anyone is listening, it seems already to be an irreparable abyss.
Good analysis of Iran's allies, such as they are, and how this might play out. Am guessing that Pakistan is rethinking its reported plan to nominate Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize.
ReplyDeletehttps://theconversation.com/who-are-irans-allies-and-would-any-help-if-the-us-joins-israel-in-its-war-259265
This country has zero moral stature and does not have the standing to tell anyone what to do or to bomb anyone. It’s not that we used to be good and now we’re bad, gone astray. I hate to say it but this has always been a major part of our country’s makeup. It’s just coming to a final denouement.
ReplyDeleteWe are a nation that attracts and nurtures exploiters, con men, and religious fanatics. We do have an admirable constitutional system if we have the will to follow it and hold leaders accountable.
DeleteWe need to reassess what benefits we get from supporting Israel, especially when a thug like Netanyahu is at the helm.
I wish the "Taco" thing hadn't got started. "Trump always chickens out". It was like a dare. You can't chicken out of dropping a bomb and getting into a war when you've already done it. He had to prove himself to be the king of the hill.
ReplyDeleteIran is far from being Hitler. Judging by their fruits, Israel is more similar to Nazi Germany, and, with their ruthless dedication to Israeli expansion while having nuclear weapons, pose a greater threat to the world than Iran. Iran showed restraint while Israel is out of control. As for Hitler, he might have been preemptively stopped by the WWI victors acting more graciously after the war. Even after Germany surrendered, Britain prevented food entering Germany causing starvation and death in the populace. The Germans remembered. As for Iran, we overthrew their secular democratic regime in the 50’s at the behest of British oil interests. It would be best if we started tending to the needs of our own people, and stop fomenting disorder throughout the world.
Delete"It would be best if we started tending to the needs of our own people, and stop fomenting disorder throughout the world."
DeleteI would agree with that, and while we're at it, put back USAID and try to actually help some people who aren't us. It was a minimal part of our budget
One of the things Trump ran on was "no more forever wars". Of course it was a lie and a gigantic bait and switch like everything he says.
"Tend to our own needs," yes. One of those needs is curbing religious nuts currently banning books. It makes me laugh when the MAGAs jabber about freedom and then do this stuff:
Deletehttps://pen.org/magic-tree-house-author-calvin-and-hobbes-among-hundreds-of-tennessee-book-bans/
Trump is a turd, and I have a visceral reaction against everything he does and says. However, a case might be made for destroying Iran's uranium refining plants:
ReplyDeleteIf international oversight was not working.
If Iran was capable and willing to supply rogue groups with weapons.
If destroying refineries prevented Israelis from causing catastrophic collateral damage and death in civilian areas.
If taking out uranium refineries has a good chance of bringing Iran to the conclusion that it cannot continue to foment instability through Hamas, Hezbollah, and similar thru out the region.
But neither Trump or his idiots seem capable of making that case.
They are already backing off the claim that they destroyed any potential nuclear capability. The latest rumors are that Iran moved them well before the attacks.
DeleteI am interested in just war teachings because I am wondering if preventing something worse when not attacked directly qualifies as “ just”.
I have no idea how much of a threat to the world Iran might be. Definitely not in the Nazi era or Russian takeover of Eastern Europe realms in the 1930s and 1940s. As far as our actions go, my fears are based in my total lack of trust in the ability of trump and his sycophant minions to make rational decisions.
Yes, I understand the lack of trust. Republicans have lost all credibility as responsible decision makers by cleaving to a character like Trump. Trump never answers the questions that reasonable people might raise and expect to get answers to. He just makes noise.
DeleteImo, there should have been some tough talk with Israel before we sent the bunker blasters: "We're not taking out the refineries unless you cease bombing Iran. You're running amok with weapons we provide, and your salt-the-earth tactics are making us look bad."
In my view, the just-war doctrine offers good general guidelines, but isn't always helpful in specific situations. War invites a lot of "did we actually prevent something worse" second-guessing for which there are never definitive answers.
I also don't think it's helpful to apply some kind of "are they as bad as Hitler?" standard. What constitutes "as bad as Hitler"?
Hitler wanted to rule Europe and all of its countries, including Russia. He hoped to then attack the US. His attempts to achieve this goal resulted in millions of military and civilian deaths, and he used the most reprehensible means possible to eliminate undesirables - Jews, homosexuals, children born with congenital disabilities .the Roma people, old and infirm people. I don’t see Iran having similar ambitions. I don’t even see Israel having ambitions of the same scope. They want to eliminate Hamas and Hezbollah and others they see as out to destroy them but they don’t seem to want to kill all Palestinians or take control of the entire Middle East . But who knows - Netanyahu is pretty evil and we’re supporting him.
DeleteYes, I understand what Hitler did. But do we have to wait for a country to go that far before we take up arms against it?
DeleteI'm not advocating for going to war with Iran or even countenancing the military strikes. Just saying there may be a reasonable case to be made, and Trump is not making it. Chalk up another of his many many disservices to the public.
Agree. We should not wait until we reach the Hitler danger tipping point. Im grateful that I don’t have to make these decisions and I honestly don’t know enough, or have enough real data, to judge the current action. I do know that I don’t trust Trump nor any of his high level military and national security staff. I’m not sure that any of them are more knowledgeable than I am or better qualified to decide when it’s appropriate to drop bombs on other countries. Trump is driven by politics and polls. He’s unhappy with the latest polls. Bombing Iran is a great distraction to take the media focus off his many current failing policies and falling approval ratings. That scares me a lot.
DeleteIt must be remembered that Iran has allowed nuclear inspectors on site and entered into a nuclear agreement with the US that Trump dissolved.. The Israelis don't even admit to having nuclear weapons. However, they did imprison a whistle blower for twenty years for exposing what they don't have. Israel's arsenal may be 100-200 warheads and they are capable of causing worldwide destruction. Backed into a corner, I would be much more afraid of Israel than Iran. After all, they've already exterminated hundreds of thousands of civilians, and have shown the bottomless racist cruelty at the core of zionism. They are demonstrably capable of anything. Iran has shown restraint. Israel can't lash out enough at its neighbors. and there are thousands of nuclear weapons in the world. We either get total nuclear disarmament or what's another country with them. North Korea is also scarier than Iran. Possible nuclear weapon development is just another excuse for wreaking havoc.
DeleteThis Brookings paper from 2013 may be of interest. It's comparatively short and readable. Written during President Obama's 2nd term when he was using diplomacy to try to stop or at least delay Iran's becoming a nuclear power, it looks at the Iran/Iraq War of the 1980s as a seminal event that set Middle East perceptions of the US as a trustworthy or untrustworthy partner. It seems positively prophetic in certain passages. Worth a read.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.brookings.edu/articles/lessons-from-americas-first-war-with-iran/#:~:text=President%20Barack%20Obama%20has%20committed,how%20to%20deal%20with%20Tehran.
The Brookings piece has colored my views of what a likely outcome is of the US's intervention against Iran. Considering that President Trump is at the helm, I think it's likely enough that both Iran and the Israel will end up concluding that the US is an untrustworthy partner.
“In November 2013, Donald Trump tweeted, "Remember that I predicted a long time ago that President Obama will attack Iran because of his inability to negotiate properly—not skilled!".
DeleteThanks, Jim.
DeleteI don't know to what extent the State Department, since the DOGE purge, still has regional experts who can brief the administration on the historical perspectives. And even if it does, Trump is breathtakingly incurious about that type of info and won't sit still for briefings. He lives from one "what I want right now" moment to the next.
It was interesting to watch JD Vance during's Trump's three-minute address. While Hegseth and Rubio were nodding away at key points, Vance looked pretty grim. His political career could conceivably last decades beyond Trump's death. He may not be quite so impervious to ramifications.
One clings to whatever shreds of hope one can muster ...
I've been contemplating starting a separate thread on this topic, but in brief:
ReplyDelete* If the American attack has delayed, or even destroyed, Iran's ability to create nuclear weapons, then that is surely a desirable outcome.
* As we understand the outcome of the attack today, the sheer competence of the American military operation can only further increase its prestige in the international community. I don't think any of us here are hawks, but it has to be thought desirable for America's adversaries to fear our military.
* Regardless of whether or not we think the attack was prudent, we should be concerned that Trump apparently went about the attack illegally. As I understand it, the War Powers Act gives the president some authority to engage against an adversary without requiring a formal Congressional declaration of war. But that Act requires that the president obtain Congress's authorization prior to taking action. Trump did not do so, despite having ample time to do so, and despite the Pentagon pretty clearly having spent considerable time planning this operation.
* Is it possible to apply the traditional just war criteria to this US action against Iran's nuclear weapon capability? I think that depends on if you believe the US and Iran already have been in some sort of a long-simmering, low-level proxy war already. Both sides have engaged in various acts of provocation, including (on Iran's side) attacks against our troops, attacks on commercial activity, cyber-attacks, and of course, if one's memory is long enough, the taking of American hostages; and on the US's part, assassinations and the imposition of economic sanctions, as well as whatever we did for and against Iran during the Iran/Iraq war (cf my previous comment). And of course, Iran has, through its proxies Hamas and Hezbollah, been waging war on our ally Israel for decades. Personally, I don't think Iran's theocratic leadership is trustworthy, and President Trump's determination that Iran shouldn't be allowed to achieve nuclear weaponry is strategically correct and morally right.
Eh. I'm not at all convinced that the attack destroyed Iran's capability to create nuclear weapons. If the Pentagon spent a lot of time planning this operation, so did Iran spend a lot of time figuring out how to protect its nuclear capabilities from this kind of attack. Given that the administration gutted it's intelligence agencies and appointed incompetents as leaders of them, and alienated our allies who might have given us information why would anyone conclude that we had accurate information?
DeleteYup
DeleteFirst Qatar, with the largest American base in the Mideast. Now Iran has also attacked the US presence in Iraq. Where will this end?
ReplyDeleteActually the sources reporting an attack on American sites in Iraq don’t seem reliable. There is nothing about this in reliable sources so far.
DeleteOff topic: Stay safe in the heat. This should be the last overnight with lows around 80, at least until the next heat dome builds in later July. It's been over 95 for three days. And as if we don't have enough depressing news, here's some gummint info on heat related death. Not sure how info about climate change is slipping thru. Must be purging the gay stuff first. Read it while you still can.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-heat-related-deaths
I just went out to get the mail. It’s a steambath. “Only”94 now, feels like 105 according to the weather app. I believe it. Tomorrow it’s supposed to hit 100 with a feels like temp of 108. You’re not alone there in the Midwest . We’re getting it too.
DeleteWe had three days of 90 plus degrees and a high wind. It was like a blowtorch. Thankfully today is down in the 70s and cloudy. A relief, I could actually go for a walk. Supposed to be like this for several days.
DeleteThey had scheduled a Corpus Christi procession yesterday. Because of the heat they changed it to one loop around the block and conclusion in St. Bonaventure's church, the largest of the three in our group..The church was packed, mostly with people who had attended the Spanish language Mass right before the procession.
DeleteThe our mayor, who is also our mail carrier, opens the village hall as a cooling station on heat advisory days. I should take some iced tea down there tomorrow if it's another scorcher.
DeleteYour mayor sounds like a decent person. Not sure what they will do here for those without AC. Yesterday they closed the Washington Monument because of the heat. With all the tourists in town I’m guessing that the museums on the Mall will be jam packed, but not the outdoor attractions like the Monument, Lincoln and Jefferson Memorials etc. it’s supposed to hit 100 today.Glad it’s cooled off in Nebraska, Katherine!
DeleteThe weather even made the home page of the WaPo today
By Dana Munro, Afia Barrie, Jenna Portnoy and Ian Livingston How hot was it in D.C. on Monday? So hot, the National Park Service closed the Washington Monument out of concern for the safety of visitors and staff. So hot, Metro slowed train cars on the outdoor portions of its tracks because heat causes them to expand, posing another safety risk, while Baltimore canceled its free water taxi service beneath the blazing sun. How hot was it in D.C. on Monday? Try “excessive,” meteorologists said, with the actual temperature approaching a 37-year-old record of 98 degrees, while the humidity added a heat index that made it feel like it was 110 degree?
Sounds awful out in DC! I should check in with my cousin in McLean. I blew the last of our retirement savings on central air after Raber's heart attack, though we'd lived without it for 35 years. The AC also helps filter the bad air we've been getting from Canadian wildfires, tho I am still wheezy. Guessing a week of Prednisone is in my future. Love that stuff; better than coffee for a pick-me-up. Cats are yowling to go out on the screen porch to lie in the sun this morning. I will haul them back inside by noon.
DeleteMcLean is a 15 minute drive from us. Just as bad there!
DeleteI expect the picture of what is going on with Israel-Iran to shift around a lot in the coming days. It looks to me like Israel has planned to strike Iran for years, that Israeli intelligence said this might not be a bad time to take out the uranium plants given current weaknesses in the regime, and that Netanyahu took that intelligence as a "go." He told Trump what he was going to do in April and tried to talk Trump into joining. Trump said he preferred a diplomatic move, but once Netanyahu started bombing, Trump decided to follow suit.
ReplyDeleteNow Trump says he's brokered a cease fire (dust off the Nobel Peace Prize!), but it seems kinda shaky, and he's got NORAD doing exercises in Washington just in case.
Right. The ceasefire is a big surprise, at least to me. I imagine it will hold until one side or the other thinks there is an advantage to ending it.
DeleteI'm prepared to give Trump a little bit of credit as a peacemaker. I think he sees flexing of American military muscle as a way to prod recalcitrant countries to the negotiating table. But let's see how events unfold. His ability to screw things up is matchless.
George Will had it about right this morning (aside from his tiresome allusions to "Streetcar Named Desire" and General Yamamoto):
Delete"Possible reasons Donald Trump decided to join Israel’s attack include this: He saw the success of Israeli virtuosity and he hungered to jump in at the head of the parade. He is less a military maven than a drum major, and his public life of flippancies about serious matters has not earned him the benefit of any doubts."
It was also nice to see Will refrain from blaming Trump and all his works on Democrats for a change.
“ But let's see how events unfold. His ability to screw things up is matchless”. Can’t argue with that.
DeleteIran was talking about blocking the Strait of Hormuz. Maybe that’s why we have a ceasefire. Probably a more effective strategy for Iran than directly targeting Israeli and American bases. Bomb their wallets.
DeleteI read that, too. Seemed more like a posturing move by Iranian govt, but who knows.
DeleteAnd hard to know what Iran's religious nut militias might do. These groups and individuals tend to have minds and agendas of their own and are not under tight control by Iran any more than the US controls the Proud Boys or whackadoos like Vance Boelter. They could do all kinds of damage while the Iranians officially claim they're honoring the cease fire.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/23/iran-closure-of-strait-of-hormuz-would-be-monumental-act-of-self-harm-says-lammy
I gotta stop following this obsessively.
Weather update here - the electricity is out on our street and nearby. But I can see that there are lights on the houses on the other side of the woods, peaking through the trees. It’s silent - nothing humming, no noise . So peaceful.
DeleteThe bonus - fireflies! I hadn’t seen any until tonight. It’s so dark outside, hot, humid. Perfect for fireflies.They've been scarce in recent years and last summer we were in California. I’ve never seen fireflies there . Seeing them brings a bit of joy.
Have seen no fireflies this year, but will look tonight. Torrential rain cooled things off. Windows open, ahhh!
DeleteBut worried about yr power outage. Does your husband rely on any electrical devices or equipment? Dad had an O2 condenser, but a tank in case of power outages. The tank was fussy, and my mom was leery of it, so losing power was always upsetting.
Anne, I hope you have electricity back by now!
DeleteI hope we have fireflies back this year, we didn't have any last year.
It was a busy day.the power came back on after two hours, around 1 am. Fortunately.it hit 100 today (only 99 yesterday)with a “feels like” temp of 106. Jean my husband doesn’t need life- sustaining equipment dependent on electricity fortunately. His hospital bed needs it to go up and down and to raise the back. Also he has an alternating low air loss mattress to help reduce getting pressure wounds. We went a year without one, after the first stage 4 wound was healed (with 6 months of weekly visits to the Wound Clinic). But a couple of months ago a new one appeared and progressed quickly to stage 4 even though we treated it as directed at home. But it wasn’t enough. I can’t even stand to look at it when we go to the wound center. So having electricity to keep the mattress pump working is important Maintaining the alternating pressure in the mattress is more important than the bed going up or down. But it’s not an immediate life threatening situation as your father’s was.
DeleteIt surprised me last night that even though the AC wasn’t working, the combination of silence, almost total darkness and fireflies gave me a rare sense of peace and I fell asleep quickly.
I hope you all see some fireflies this summer!
Ye gads. If you knew me in real life, you'd know how much snark and resentment and anxiety went along with some of this stuff. Life throws things at you and you learn to deal with the outrageous and the unfair. The trick is to balance it with as much beauty, hilarity, and comfort as you can.
DeleteWe've been watching a bunch of old BBC productions of Dickens free on Roku and Tubi. I wonder what Dickens might have thought if he could have seen them. Nobody does Awful People like the Brits. Quite a delight.
"Nobody does awful people like the Brits." LOL, I'd have to agree with that. We've been watching some old episodes of Inspector Lewis. Watched one last night that I thought was echoing Brideshead Revisited. Which had some awful people of it's own.
DeleteThere is a new police procedural series (or at least new to PBS) called Patience which we've been watching. Through the first two episodes, it's been quite good.
DeleteWe also got sucked into a British procedural drama on Netflix called Department Q - a cold case series. I hope there will be more than one season. The performances are very good, the law enforcement characters are largely likeable, and the mystery is a good one.
I keep wondering what Dickens would have thought of his BBC adaptations--or those of his confreres Eliot, Trollope, Hardy, and etc. The faces they find for these characters--Timothy Spall, Pam Ferris, the late Elizabeth Spriggs, Tom Wilkinson. I swear David Bradley turns up in all of them.
DeleteI watched Dept Q because of the location. Scotland. I wasn’t grabbed by it and almost didn’t continue. But I watched the second episode and it eventually caught my interest enough to finish the series. The plot was bizarre. And the characters were not very likable to me except for the Syrian sidekick who was probably a professional torturer in Syria.
DeleteWe just finished streaming the latest season of Grantchester (season 10). It was enjoyable, as always, with its gorgeous location and likable cast of characters. But it seems to be running out of story lines, which unfortunately happens a lot with series that continue on for years.
My late sister came to DC after college to work for the Congressman from west Los Angeles. After a couple of years she was his top advisor. She started the “go east, young woman” trend in our family. I came four years later to go to grad school. She and her husband introduced my husband to me so I’m still here. Four years later the eldest sister arrived with her family. The Congressional advisor sister helped eldest sister’s husband get a job with the GSA. She left the congressman after getting her law degree, but was always a political junkie. She loved a show on Netflix called Designated Survivor - a DC political series. In her memory, we are now watching that series.
We loved all of the Inspector Lewis mysteries. I was hoping for another series with Lewis’s overeducated sidekick as the Inspector.
Also came on this guy from Minnesota, my hero of the day. Recovering fundiegelical conservative pastor who is taking on Trump without screaming and yelling, just appealing to human decency. And using lessons he learned about Shakespearean tragedy in high school to help explain the dynamics of the Trump administration: https://youtu.be/QNJACbDeLpY?si=i5FEf8Dkf_WgKjHI
DeleteI liked his nice calm delivery about the crazy clown show going on in DC. I also like the unspecific but you-know-who-you-are admonishments from Pope Leo. Another clear and humane voice I love to hear these days is Francesca Albanese, international lawyer and UN rapporteur assigned to the Gaza genocide. If only their powerful words had immediate effect.
DeleteInteresting YouTube commentary. For more on Hegseth and extremist evangelicals see this story at the Religious News Service site
Deletehttps://religionnews.com/2025/06/23/what-is-crec-the-christian-nationalist-group-has-a-vision-for-america-and-defense-secretary-pete-hegseths-support/
Jim, I watched the first episode of Patience. It looks interesting. I wonder if it will be as compelling as I found “The Tunnel” to be, featuring an English detective working with an autistic French detective. It’s still streaming on PBS.
Designated Survivor is already running out of ideas, but we will finish it. Some of the plots are spooky though, as they include dysfunctional situations and controversies that are very timely. But the episodes appeared even before trumps first term.
Good video about the insights from Shakespearean tragedy.
DeleteI'll have to check out Patience, it sounds interesting.
We watched Grantchester until we got too annoyed with the Sidney character making bad decisions. I guess he's not on there anymore and they have a different vicar. So maybe we should give it another chance.
Anne, yes, we liked The Tunnel a lot. The series ending kind of broke my heart, though.
DeleteRe: political shows: We also really like The Diplomat, which runs on Netflix. Two seasons so far, with a third coming later this year and plans for a fourth. Have you seen it?
Goodness, Katherine, you are way behind. Yes, Sidney got annoying. He left to go to America because he fell in love with the daughter of a visiting American Civil Rights leader and was replaced with a new young, motorcycle riding, vicar with a different set of issues. Now that young vicar, calmed down and married with children, has moved on to pastor an inner city parish in the north, somewhere like Manchester. The twist with vicar #3 is that he has Indian heritage - shocking the white, Anglican locals, so that opens the door to stories of racism in England etc.. You missed a lot of drama with Leonard being exposed as gay, sent to prison for it, and laicized. Leonard is so sweet and nice that you just want him to be allowed to be happy with his partner, Daniel. Lots of ups and downs with the relationships of all the characters. Low key stuff, not grisly or graphic, and so we watch it. But they are running out of plots.
DeleteMore on political dramas: we also liked the first season of COBRA, although by Season 3 I sort of didn't like it enough to keep watching it.
DeleteBack to procedurals with detectives with neuro diverse personalities: I see Professor T has a new season running on Sunday nights around here. We watched the Belgian version with closed captioning a few years ago and were hooked. The British version is quite good, too.
Still watch Grantchester, although my wife likes it better than I. I gave up on All Creatures Great and Small a season or two ago. Also gave up on Call the Midwife a long time ago. It's like ER or Grey's Anatomy, where they just bring in a new crop of nurses and/or doctors every few years and then rehash the same plot lines every few years. The "Chicago" shows (Chicago Med, Chicago Fire, Chicago PD) do the same with their respective professions.
DeleteJim, I’ve seen The Diplomat come up., Maybe try that one too. The characters in Designated Survivor are slowly being killed off or changing jobs after a political scandal or whatever so the actors were apparently losing interest and not renewing their contracts for a new season. Or something.. They have introduced a couple of new regular characters but the show is running out of steam.
DeleteI was also heartbroken by the ending of The Tunnel. The French actress was amazing. Broadchurch and Unforgotten were pretty compelling too. Nicola Walker and Olivia Colman are excellent actors also.
I have found that many of the British police procedural/ murder mystery series are too dark for me - too grim, too gritty, and graphically grisly. So I stop watching after a few episodes.,I am an escapist, so the more lighthearted series ( Father Brown, Midsomer Murders, Inspector Lewis, Grantchester type series) appeal to me more. I also liked the quirky Irish murder series called Bad Sisters. It was on Apple TV., We piggyback on various accounts of our sons. Netflix finally kicked us off so now we do have our own subscription. Our eldest has Apple TV and we can access his account l. I also liked the Ted Lasso series (first two seasons) on Apple. My husband didn’t, because he was really disappointed - he really thought it was about soccer, which was just the pretext for the real meaning of the show. So I watched most of that on my own. We have always donated to our local PBS station for streaming , and now may need to up that donation since the government grants are being zeroed out.
Maybe I should watch some Dickens, but I never liked the books as a kid - depressing. Maybe a TV show of Dickens novels would work for me in my old age.
We thought the police procedural, Instinct, starring Alan Cumming, was good. Unfortunately it was only on for two seasons.
DeleteRaber made me watch Prime Suspect long after I was tired of the charmless Jane Tennyson (played by Helen Mirren, not a fan). He loves Slow Horses, which has good characters, though the plots seem needlessly convoluted.
DeleteI loved House of Cards, UK and US, until they fired Kevin Spacey in the last US season.
We finished "Our Mutual Friend" and are on "Martin Chuzzlewit." Quite a collection of dimwits in that. "Bleak House" with Jillian Anderson is very good.
I get more out of Dickens on audio or dramatization than reading off the page. Possibly that's because Dickens used to act out his characters and scenes in front of a mirror before he wrote them down.
I thought I loved Dickens when I was assigned to read Great Expectations and Bleak House in college. So I tried some others, but I have to admit I haven't made it through more than I finished. I've given up on Oliver Twist, Dombey and Sons (twice), David Copperfield and the Old Curiosity Shop. I did get through Nicholas Nickleby (a couple of times) and the Pickwick Papers, and enjoyed them. I think, for the serialized novels, he didn't always know how they would turn out when he started writing the first installments for publication.
DeleteGotta say: Jane Austen is a better writer in some ways. The few novels of her I've read seem to sort of hang together better than Dickens'. They both were psychological in their own ways - Austen in giving her protagonists a rich interior life; Dickens in more of a sort of dark, nightmarish way.
When Prime Suspect was in its first run, I thought it was great television. I've checked one or two seasons out of the library in more recent years and didn't think they had aged well. But maybe part of it is that I knew the solutions to the mysteries.
DeletePBS had one season of a Jane Tennyson prequel, when she was as young beat cop - the sort of thing they eventually did with Endeavour / Morse. I would have liked more of the Tennyson prequel, but it never came around again.
I think Dickens can get repetitive. You often see the same stock characters in several novels. Imo, David Copperfield is his best, but that's not a scholarly opinion.
DeleteI read two Austen novels per year on a rotating basis for 30 years. A friend and I were talking about Mansfield Park just today. Novelist Lauren Groff has an article about it in the NYT. It's the least popular of her novels, so maybe not surprisingly the one the scholars and critics like to poke at.