Cardinal Sean O'Malley had some thoughts about the movie Conclave on his blog.
"Finally, I’d like to offer you some of my thoughts on the recent movie Conclave.
So many people who have seen it come up to me and say, “Was it really like that?” My answer is, no, it wasn’t really like that.
The author, of course, has a surprise ending that I will not give away here, but my experience of being in at least one conclave was not that it was some sort of scene of political backroom plotting of how to get your candidate elected. It was an experience of a very intense retreat where there was much prayer and silence and listening to conferences on spiritual themes.
Throughout the process, we had a very acute awareness that millions of Catholics around the world were praying for us so that the Holy Spirit would guide us in our deliberations. And, of course, at the moment when each cardinal votes, you take your ballot, stand in front of Michelangelo’s image of Christ in the Last Judgment and swear before God that you are going to vote for the person that you believe is God’s will for the Church.
It’s a much different experience than what they depicted in the movie. For all its artistic and entertainment value, I don’t think the movie is a good portrayal of the spiritual reality of what a conclave is."
The comments about Conclave were at the end of a rather long blog post, mostly about the cardinal giving a retreat to clergy in Barcelona, with a bunch of nice pictures.
Wish I were in Barcelona right now, it's -6 ° here! I appreciate Cardinal Sean's thoughts, and I believe that they do take their duty seriously and approach it with prayer. However I also believe there is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes during the length of time they are in Rome. There has to be, given that the cardinals either don't know one another, or see one another seldom. They can't make a decision without seeking out information. Everyone is going to have an opinion, but hopefully they won't give the culture wars too much weight.
I believe that there are many sincere and humble believers who take their votes seriously. I expect there are also some who enjoy the political machinations of power.
ReplyDeleteTo those outside the Church, Catholicism is opaque, mysterious, exclusive, and arcane. That kind of thing lends itself to stories about intrigue and corruption.
Given the age of most of the cardinals, I expect a conclave pretty much like my dad's old geezer club arguing down at the Tim Horton's round table every morning.
Interrupting the convo with this PSA:
ReplyDeleteWe paid for the gov to provide COVID tests. Trump wants to kill the free test program and destroy remaining tests. Those tests are ours. Order yours before Trump kills the program. Spread the word: https://www.covid.gov/
Back to the topic at hand ...
I see that they reversed the decision to kill the program:
Deletehttps://www.clinicaladvisor.com/news/trump-administration-reverses-plan-to-end-free-covid-test-program/
I got ours several weeks ago. I've been telling people they need to order theirs. According to the article, officials made the argument that they still have a bunch of tests. They're not expired and it costs money to either store them, or dispose of them. So appealing on money saving got farther than an argument on humanitarian grounds. Not surprising.
The Jesuits have a procedure when they elect a new Father General that is something like a conclave. It is called murmuratio
ReplyDeletehttps://jesuits.eu/news/142-gc36-murmuratio-a-time-for-words-names-and-prayer
"a series of one-on-one conversations designed to elicit information about Jesuits who may have the qualities needed to lead the world's largest religious order of men.
If, for example, a delegate believes the situation of the Society of Jesus in Europe should be a priority for the next superior, he said, a delegate would ask another, "Do you know someone who could do this work and respond to the needs of the society today?" If the person says he knows someone, the delegate would ask, "What are his qualities? Tell me, what are his limitations?”
However, Father Torres said, a delegate cannot suggest another vote for a specific candidate or ask who another delegate plans to vote for. Also, the conversations may not take place in groups "to avoid anything that can appear to be a campaign for a candidate or a pressure group," he said.
According to an article published in the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera, Francis is said to have told Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni when she visited him on Feb. 19 that he was aware that there are those eager to see him leave the scene.
ReplyDelete"Some have been praying for the pope to go to heaven," Francis reportedly told the prime minister, "but the Lord of the Harvest thinks it best to keep me here."
At a Feb. 20 Vatican press conference for an upcoming initiative promoting peacebuilding around the Mediterranean, many of the questions circled around the octogenarian pope's health.
Barcelona's Cardinal Juan José Omella Omella told reporters that while he doesn't have a holistic understanding of the pope's medical records, "it seems that he is doing much better."
Cardinal Jean-Marc Aveline of Marseille, France, joked that hospitalization is the only way to get the notoriously stubborn Francis to take a break.
According to an NCR report of press conference of doctors;
ReplyDelete"If the question is: Is the pope out of danger? No, not yet," said a representative from his medical team on Feb. 21. "But is he in danger of death now? The answer, once again, is no."
While the doctors said that Francis will eventually return to his Vatican residence, he will continue to experience ongoing respiratory problems.
"If we let him go home, he'll start working like before," the doctors said.
Betty said full recovery takes from three to six weeks. While the NYTimes recently criticized the Vatican for failure to make full disclosure, I think in this case the doctors with their "complex, stable" formula are going to try to keep him in the hospital for as long as possible because they know that is the only way to get rest which is important to his recovery.
The Vatican is downplaying rumors of a resignation. Francis has said that it is mental functioning not the ability to walk that is important if he is to continue. As long as his respiratory problems are not interfering with his thinking, I expect we will not see a resignation.
It sounds to me like the doctors are telling the truth, that the pope isn't in immediate danger of death, but still is recovering from a serious illness and isn't out of the woods yet. I don't know what the NYTimes and others want the Vatican to say.
DeleteWhat Betty said about recovery time from that type of illness tallies with what I have seen family members go through. I'd predict for someone of Francis' age it's probably going to be nearer six weeks than three. Hopefully he will get to go back to his apartment before that.
Thinking/outlook/attitudes/personality are always affected by illness. Cognition may not change, but decision-making, interpersonal communication, and reduced stamina affect people's decisions and thinking process. Keeping on a pope with a chronic illness after a major crisis may not be doing him or the Church any favors. The Church went to such lengths to keep JPII working in the final stages of his infirmity that it just looked cruel. I doubt he was "all there," despite claims to the contrary from his inner circle. It certainly did not make me feel that the Vatican powers had his best interests at heart, and his inability to communicate prevented him from doing the work required of the Church's leader. Francis should retire now.
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DeleteBeing a pope is different from being a president or prime minister. He doesn't have nuclear codes or a "red phone", as they used to say. Popes make decisions, but they're not going to crash an economy, or switch sides in the geopolitical arena and betray allies they have sworn to defend.
DeleteJohn Paul II's situation was different, he was in the last stages of Parkinson's.
You make a great case for the irrelevancy of the papacy on the world scene!
DeletePopes do have other people who do a lot of the work that requires their final approval.
DeleteFor example, bishops are chosen by the Congregation of Bishops with input by apostolic delegates and others. The Pope makes the final decision from a list of three. I think JPII in his waning days appointed McCarrick to one of his positions.
Diplomacy is carried out by the Vatican Secretary of State and the apostolic delegates. B16 really did not care much about any of it. He appointed his #2 in the Congregation for the Defense of the Faith as Secretary of State. Guy did not have much background for the job but he was loyal to B16. One of Francis first priorities was to bring professional diplomates back to running the State Department and to resume meetings with apostolic delegates when they came to Rome. Maybe B16 was never up to the job of being a diplomate. He spent his time writing encyclicals and a book on the life of Christ.
If you apply the criteria above in my comment on murmuratio, I would say that the next pope really needs to do something about the American bishops. But then Francis is into doing that right now and has about 20 of them that need to be replaced in the next few years, so maybe we should keep him on the job.
DeleteAnd of course, somebody in the world needs to stand up to Trump. Again, Francis seems to be doing the job. Give him four more years.
If one wants to talk about the long-term changes in the Church: sexual abuse, leadership of women, married priests. I think Francis has had his time at bat, and we need to move on to see if someone else can bring people together on these matters.
I understand that people may feel special affinity for a particular pope's vision for the Church and want to keep him in there to hedge against other factions. Or they just like the narrative and anecdotes that accrue to a particular pope. I always liked that (prob apocryphal) story about the reporter who asked Pope John 23 how many people work at the Vatican, and Pope John said, "About half of them."
DeleteBut if the papacy is still a relevant spiritual influence in the world, what is the benefit of keeping any pope in there if he has to be wheeled around and increasingly delegate things because he needs more rest time?
A sick pope gives rise to rumors that he is being manipulated and controlled.
Then there is the example of John 23. He was elected as a caretaker Pope. Then he launched Vatican II which probably changed the church more than any other Council.
DeleteRobert Greenleaf was having a seminar for executives on the day John died. He trashed his prepared remarks and spoke on the remarkable leadership of John 23. Greenleaf argued that age and disability were pluses rather than minuses for John 23. He launched the Council fully knowing that he would be unlikely to complete it. He was therefore free from the legacy concerns that haunt too many CEOs, the desire to control history so that they will look good. He had faith that things would turn out alright.
I am not so sure that Francis had the same faith when he launched the synodal process. Although he allowed open discussion (behind closed doors) he remained the judge of the whole operation. His theory that somehow the synod would find a vision that would get them beyond the present divisions did not happen. We may be more open about divisions, but we may be a more divided not a less divided church.
Leadership is a very tricky thing. All the evidence is that it is very situational. People who are good in situation A may become bad in situation B.
I don't think Pope Francis has been an effective leader. He's said a lot of good things that failed to catch hold in American Catholicism and put him at odds with priests like ours who want to restore the Church to preVat2 times. I don't think infirmity will make him stronger. Interesting that no calls for prayers for Francis have been posted on the parish Web site.
DeleteFrancis's "accompaniment" idea is lived out by many individual Catholics unwilling to shun gay, divorced, fallen away, or other Church outcasts in their own families. But there is certainly no larger widespread parish accompaniment effort going on.
Ditto his synod initiative. My Catholic friends, if aware of it at all, saw it as a one-time listening exercise that changed nothing. Like those dreadful team-building things at work.
John Paul 2 had an outsized influence on the Church that will last probably thru our lifetimes.
At least part of being a good leader is having people who are willing to listen. Some of them have, and it has born some fruit. Others, like the ones who want to drag things back to pre-VII, appear to have just stuffed cotton in their ears.
DeleteA good leader makes people want to listen. Francis doesn't. Im happy if there is fruit from some of his ideas somewhere. Do you see anything tangible in your parish that speaks to Francis's influence?
DeleteI don't know if it is because of Francis' influence, or because the priests are spread so thin, but I do see more lay leadership. Our parish has never been an anti-Vatican II stronghold. We pray for the pope in the Mass intentions, regardless of who is in that position at present. But we tend to focus on things closer to home than Rome.
DeleteI think lay leadership is inevitable for now and has nothing to do with Francis. I don't see it as a particularly good (or bad) thing. Depends on the laity.
DeleteAgree with Jean on much. I like Francis but the too many years of JPII @nd Benedict were the death knell of VII. It was too late for Francis. By then their bishops appointments and the attraction to seminaries of JPII/B16 men from uber/ conservative Catholic families who liked their very conservatism brought a generation of terrible priests in. Promoted to pastors quickly because of the extreme shortage of priests. The priests recruited from Africa are naturally conservative too. So slowly but surely the Catholics who would listen to Francis, the gospels, and the church’s official social justice teachings were fed up and left parishes one by one. The “dones”. Like me. I don’t think it was a lack of leadership from Francis but that he inherited the mess left by his two predecessors. Now I would have to go to Holy Trinity in Georgetown to find a parish where I might feel comfortable. Jesuits. Too far since I have a paralyzed husband these days.
ReplyDeleteThe Synod stuff did strike me as like the team building exercises mentioned by Jean. And probably just as ineffective.
Francis has done a good job of turning things around in almost 12 years given the 26 years of JP2 and 8 years of B16 (34 years total). One should not be surprised at the resistance that he has met from many bishops and priests.
DeleteSince I have always had the Hours as part of my life what goes on in parishes has not affected me much. I have always tried to find a parish where the Eucharist could be summit not the nadir of my liturgical week. Sometimes that was successful sometimes not. Now that we have live streamed Masses there are plenty of candidates for Sunday Morning Mass. When Covid allows, I go to Saturday evening Mass locally, more to keep in touch with parishioners than anything else. I don't expect much in terms of pastoral staff there.
The desert solitaries prayed the psalms but rarely participated in the Eucharist. They discouraged priests from joining them. The center of Benedictine life in the early centuries was the Divine Office. There is very little in Benedict's Rule about the Eucharist. Like early monks, priests are just not that important to me.
Besides a relationship to God (which I find in the Hours) relationships to others are an important part of life. My family, friends, work colleagues, and fellow parish members have all been supportive of my spiritual life. Again, I don't see priests and pastoral staff as being that important to my life.
Most of my life I have been a solitary. Now that I am old, I am happy for Betty's company. Since we are both in need of help, and not likely to leave this world at the same time, I think building a small house centered support system is important for both of us. I am not going to join parish groups for that.
My participation in the life of the Church will mainly be through my websites on the Hours and Commonweal Local Communities.
The Mass and the Eucharist have been important to me my whole life. With my husband being a deacon, we are at church, a lot. Being retired, I have the blessing of attending daily Mass often. I am very grateful for a parish that is kind of middle of the road, and politics doesn't play a big part. I don't pay much attention to parish organizations, but I am glad to bring food if there is a funeral luncheon or a fund raiser. My involvement in the parish is pretty much liturgical, either in choir or as an EMHC
DeleteEveryone has to find their own niche, and that might be personal prayer rather than involvement in a parish.
I feel my life has always been lacking in not finding a "church home" in a community of believers. That was out of my control as a child. My family avoided outside attachments because of dysfunction. Family ties themselves have always been tenuous and subject to sudden reversals. But I had close ties in college, at work, and with other groups. Just never jelled with a group in a spiritual way.
DeleteI had, and still have, close ties with high school, college, work and neighborhood friends. I was close to my sister who died. I have a virtual relationship with one cousin ( in New Mexico). I’m good with my Arizona brother as long as we don’t discuss politics. He and his wife are kind in spite of being trump people. I have seen my eldest sister in Virginia about 8 times since 2015. Four of those times were at family gatherings related to the murder of our niece and her husband, and two for the memorial events for the sister who died . Shockingly she invited us to join them at brunch with our late sisters husband and his son and family a couple of weeks ago - but only after someone else they had invited cancelled. We decided to go anyway. She emails only if she needs something from me - an email address usually. During the last 17 months I never heard from her even once about my husband and she never asked me about him at our sisters memorial events. She has always been all about herself, as her nephews ( our sons) have often pointed out to me,
DeleteGoing to the brunch was hard but we went anyway because of our brother in law and family.
I had a spiritual home for a long time with our first parish because of our twinning efforts with the sister parish in the Dominican Republic. But the parish veered right and stopped supporting most social justice programs including that one. I also had a spiritual home with the Centering Prayer group there - now also gone.They are big on Barron programs. And EWTN and very conservative Bible studies by former evangelicals. Our former EC parish lost the two priests we liked and we didn’t like the replacements. So we are unchurched now. I can’t go downtown to Holy Trinity.
We went to the brunch to see other family but I’m trying very hard to forgive her indifference to my husband even though she complains a lot about her problems. She’s 86 and her husband is 92 but they go out a lot, travel a lot, even spending two weeks every November for their anniversary in one of the most luxurious and expensive resorts in the Caribbean where rooms start at over $2000/ night. She made a ton of money as a real estate agent but they have no social conscience beyond being anti- abortion. Am I angry and judgmental? You bet. .So I’m trying to let go of it. I confess this sin to God regularly.
DeleteIt is hard to be around people who are self-centered like that. It's kind of you to go to support your widowed brother in law.
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