I love my parents. And I am decades past the age where their behavior is supposed to make me squirm in embarrassment. But.
In the household in which I grew up, we always said grace before meals. "Bless us O Lord ..." etc. I'm fine with it (although it occurs to me the prayer would be improved by substituting, "Bless us..." with "Thank you..."). In fact, we say grace before meals in our family. When we're eating at home.
But here's the thing: at some point along the way, well after I had grown up and moved out of the house, my parents decided that it is also necessary to say grace before meals in the middle of restaurants. This never happened when I was a kid; we prayed around our own dining room table, but the rule was suspended in restaurants. For the last 20 years or so, it seems the suspension has been lifted.
It happened this past weekend. Ten of us from the extended family had gathered in a Bob Evans restaurant for Sunday breakfast, and all the conversation and activity was halted while we said grace together.
I don't care what the other people and the restaurant workers think. If it upsets them, they can get over it. But that kind of public display of piety ... I dunno, I don't care for it. Not sure how to explain why.
This confession of minor family embarrassment was triggered by this article in America:
Are you embarrassed to say grace in public? Don't be.
Well, I am. And I don't think telling me not to be is going to make it stop.
Public displays of piety are almost as uncomfortable to be around as teenagers whose public displays of affection go beyond holding hands. This kind of behavior in public always strikes me as being a way to draw attention to the self, and can be pretty off putting.
ReplyDeleteI guess there might seem to be an implied criticism about prayers where they aren't expected.
ReplyDeleteAfter my father-in-law's funeral, his Methodist minister gave a brief blessing before the lunch. We all moved to the food buffet. And then Abe's Amish brothers stepped in with some long prayers in German. It was awkward. It was rude. Abe had left the community when he was a very young man, and those brothers had shunned him for many years. It was as if the Methodist blessing wasn't good enough for them, and they were getting the last word.
Otoh, I once worked with a very nice man who was an evangelical who whispered his prayers in the lunchroom over his sandwich before he ate. I found nothing odd or weird about it. I usually stopped eating out of politeness and sometimes said a silent prayer myself.
I am neutral, I prefer to say grace silently when in a restaurant, but if I am with others who want to say it out loud, I am fine with it. I do think it can be a case of "performance piety". But I suppose it can also be a witness.
ReplyDeleteJim said, "...it occurs to me the prayer would be improved by substituting, "Bless us..." with "Thank you..." Did any of you grow up with grace after meals, the one that said, "We give thanks for all the benefits of almighty God, who livest and reignest forever. May the souls of all the faithful departed through the mercy of God, rest in peace, Amen". We didn't say that one at home, but we did at school. Sometimes when I'm at work eating a sack lunch at my desk I forget to say the grace before meals, so I say that one afterwards.
There is no time in heaven, so if you say grace before or after the meal, God doesn't care. I think God also takes compliments to the cook as indirect prayers of thanksgiving. He made the cook, after all!
DeleteI remember eating dinner at a friend's house in grade school days, and her Scots-Canadian grandfather was visiting. He said grace, "Some would eat, but ha' no meat, and some ha' meat but canna eat. We ha' meat, and we can eat. And so guid Lord, we thankit."
ReplyDeleteMy parents did not say grace at meals at home. Neither did my maternal grandmother and her German relatives say grace at meals. My paternal grandmother did say grace at meals. Our Protestant cousins next door said grace. So, I have never had a habit of saying grace either by myself or with others.
ReplyDeleteBetty does say grace at restaurants and at home. And we say grace by joining our hands, which means a public display of religion and affection in restaurants.
In general, I am comfortable in joining others in their rituals, but I am reluctant to impose rituals upon others. One of my close friends in college was a Cuban exile; I was the only guy who was willing to walk arm and arm with him. When I was a pastoral staff member, I joined some other pastoral staff members for a charismatic Mass and assisted them afterwards as people came forward for healing and in some cases being “slain by the spirit.” I wasn’t able to join in their singing in tongues but if I could have remembered the Aramaic Santus and Lord’s Prayer, I might have sung that during the singing in tongues that generally started after each sung part of the Mass.
When I shared my liturgical music in RENEW groups in my house, I encouraged people from charismatic backgrounds who wanted to engage in spontaneous prayer to do that when they felt moved to do so but since it wasn’t my prayer style, no one should feel under pressure to pray spontaneously.
When we began our Commonweal Local Community, we had no opening prayer. Betty and another member who prayed the Divine Office proposed to me that we pray vespers before the meeting. I said that as the leader of the group I didn’t want to give the impression that I was promoting a possible elite subgroup within the group that met earlier. Then a new member of the group expressed her extreme disappointment that we did not pray (she never came back). So, I proposed to the group that we do an opening “prayer” on a rotation basic with people choosing things like readings, prayers, poems, maybe bring some artwork, to lift our spirits at the beginning of the meeting. That did not go over very well. So, we dropped doing prayer.
Jack - that is interesting about your Commonweal Local Community experience. Do you think your proposal didn't go over well because people didn't want to pray? Or because they didn't want to be asked to lead prayer?
DeleteThe person who came once and wanted prayer was familiar with small faith sharing groups such as RENEW and bible study.
DeleteMost of our regular members are really high-level professionals several lawyers and several PhDs among them. They come to the meeting with an intellectual professional mindset; they don't easily put that aside and talk from personal experience. With my background in mental health and in faith sharing communities, I can easily do both.
Betty doesn't have formal education and credentials to compete with them although she spent 30 years as a medical technician, has a strong background in music and arts, and a lot of experience in faith sharing, mostly charismatic communities.
I invited her join CLC when she did a good job in a small group discussion of the Book of Enoch that included two theology doctorates and myself. Betty generally holds back, lets the professions do their thing, then speaks from her experience. For example, after the group had rehearsed the usual arguments in favor of abortion, she talked about her three near death experiences using all her understanding as a medical technician and talked about her understanding of human fertilization and development. Her argument was basically we don't know when life begins or ends. She left them speechless.
I think the group would have been more comfortable with just the Lord's prayer, so that they would not have to deal with their own or other people's experiences in prayer.
Having dealt with many mentally ill people, I can easily see talent when there are not any credentials. It is far more difficult to see the real gaps that are present in the lives of talented professionals such as many of them have likely not participated in a faith sharing group and probably are not attracted by the idea.
I doubt that public piety in places like restaurants attracts many people to religion. Many Christians seem to skip over Matthew 5
ReplyDelete5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. …. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
I would suggest saying grace “in the head”, silently, without gestures, when in restaurants.
DeleteAnne, right - it depends on the purpose of saying grace in a public place. If it's to win converts, then I think your scripture citation is apropos.
DeleteFWIW, I try to honor and respect my parents. If I see them doing something seriously risky or wrong (e.g. getting victimized by some scam artist who bilks the elderly), then I wouldn't worry about hurting their feelings by questioning their judgment. But for something like this...I just bite my tongue. They're not hurting anyone.
Part of the issue of public restaurants depends upon how you think of them.
ReplyDeleteI tend to think of them as places you go with you family and/or friends and someone else prepares the food. You should behave much like you behave at family gatherings on Christmas and Easter. If that includes prayer, fine. I tend to pay no attention to other people in the restaurant.
I suspect that for other people, a major part of dining out is showing off to other people, e.g., what you are wearing, who you are with and what you are doing, and seeing who else is there, who they are with and what they are wearing, etc. In other words, the restaurant is a large group event more like going to church or a concert. Then prayer takes on a different meaning.
When I go to restaurants with friends or family it’s to enjoy a meal cooked by someone else, often something that I would never cook myself. I didn’t know that anyone outside of celebrity circles in Hollywood or New York went to restaurants to be seen.
DeleteBut although we might behave as we would at family gatherings at home in some ways, we are also aware of the fact that we aren’t the only people there and that we need to be considerate of others. Believe me, on the few occasions that we went to nice restaurants (nice = not fast food) with our three young sons we most assuredly did not allow them to behave as they might have been allowed to behave at home. We didn’t want to disturb other diners.
Praying out loud in a restaurant setting can make some who have no choice but to witness it feel a bit uncomfortable. I also feel that saying grace out loud in a restaurant is a form of wanting to be “seen” by others. Praying silently is better.
But, Jim, you are right not to say anything to your parents, at least not while you are at a restaurant with them. Perhaps an occasion might arise at home that would allow you to tactfully recommend discretion in settings like restaurants. They are not hurting anyone with their public praying, it’s true, but they might make some of the other diners feel mildly uncomfortable, especially if they are members of a non-Christian religion. To me, outside of church or specifically religious activities with a group, praying should be done at home or silently- a private practice.
I'd humor them if it were my parents. Other diners who would start clutching their pearls because some old people want to say a short grace in a normal tone of voice with their family in a restaurant need to get a grip.
DeleteI would say it depends. A short, rote prayer like Bless us o lord and these the gifts... in soft voices might be acceptable. But if the pray-ERs are a certain kind, the lead pray- Er might use a too loud voice, too emotive, increasingly difficult to ignore as they drone on and on. Those at neighboring tables become a captive audience, much as they are when people at the next table carry on loud cell phone conversations. We have evangelical family and friends who are like that, and one Catholic family member who copies the style. In general, best to keep it private.p - ask everyone to give thanks silently.
DeleteIf the prayer is loud and disruptive that's just bad manners. We had some charismatics at our old Episcopal parish who sucked all the air out of the Prayers of the People with their noisy and lengthy intentions. Every week there was an update on some poor sod named Hugh who was incarcerated. Being well-bred Country Club Episcopalians, everybody resented this, but nobody wanted to "say something."
DeleteBut I don't think people should be ashamed of unobtrusive praying in public as a rule. I sometimes find it a good reminder to say my own prayers.
Discretion and good judgment should be used, but, unfortunately, many are not mindful of others. As you note, bad manners in restaurants are commonplace and most disruptive behavior is not associated with people saying grace. However, why do people want to say grace out loud in stead of having a moment of silence, in public, if not to draw attention to themselves?
DeleteWe have never done it as a family, but the Angelus is a traditional prayer at noon and 6:00 pm. Our parish rings the "Angelus bells" at those times. We said it before lunch in school. Except during the Easter season, when we would say the Regina Coeli, Laetare. I liked it because it was short, and also for the words:
ReplyDeleteQueen of heaven, rejoice, alleluia!
For He whom you deserved to bear, alleluia!
Has risen as he said, alleluia!
Pray for us to God, O Virgin Mary, alleluia!
When the windows are open in warmer weather I like hearing the Angelus bells. I don't know that prayer by heart, but I usually say something.
DeleteI haven't yet experienced anyone saying grace in a restaurant. I find it more annoying when I see a family and everyone in it is brainlocked with their cell phone. Really messed up. At least the grace-sayers would be mentally present.
ReplyDeleteThis evening I asked Betty about her practice of saying grace. She grew up in a Protestant family which did not say grace except on special occasions when there were visitors; then her mother would ask someone to say grace.
ReplyDeleteIn both of her marriages, both at home and in public, grace was said. Both of her partners like Betty were involved in the charismatic movement. Often when they ate out it was with members of the charismatic movement; they saw it as a form of "witnessing."
In Betty's most recent parish before she became involved with me, people regularly went to a local diner after Mass. Seeing others and being seen was an important part of that experience. In fact, she took me to that diner as part of my getting to know that parish. Ultimately, we did not include it in our menu of two Catholic and one Orthodox parishes.
Interesting. Why was it important to be seen? I guess I'm not clear on the notion of what "witnessing" means in that situation. Clearly it sounds like they needed to be seen by others in order to do a goid witnessing job. To what end? Just curious.
DeleteThe charismatic movement has emphasized the importance of the gifts of the spirit found in Saint Paul, e.g., speaking in tongues. Those are given for the building up of the body of Christ. I presume most charismatics would assume that would be all Christians, e.g., many of the people in a restaurant, not simply for fellow charismatics. There is much reason for not hiding one's gifts, but rather witnessing to the Spirit.
DeleteThere are all sorts of spiritualities within Catholicism and Christianity. Like Gutierrez I would characterize a spirituality as a reconfiguration of Christianity around certain things which are then emphasized.
The Spirit had not yet been given during Jesus public ministry, so his counsels about praying in secret would not necessarily apply to charismatics.
Having witnessed charismatic prayer several times I not only fail to see how glossalia “ builds up the body of Christ” as it is unintelligible to those who witness it, I would think that if people witnessed it in a public, secular space like a restaurant, bystanders might be tempted to call for a mental health worker.
DeleteI understand that some people may experience something spiritual in speaking in tongues, but it seems that some of the other gifts of the spirit might make a greater impact on “building up the body of Christ” than would public secular place exhibitions of glossalia. I imagine that such public demonstrations would be far more off putting than attracting to bystanders.
I didn’t recall speaking in tongues as being among the gifts of the Spirit so I looked it up .
They are: wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and awe of the Lord.
The gift of tongues given at Pentecost were, I assume, real languages, and disciples were given the gift of speaking and understanding specific languages so that they could spread the good news.
It also seems a bit risky to ignore the very clear counsel of Jesus regarding praying in public in order to be seen. Jesus alluded to the Spirit a number of times and never suggested that the Spirit would go against what he was teaching.
Jack's remarks about charismatics' viewpoints on public witness are very interesting. But I tend to look at praying in public through a different lens. I think of the controversies from 30-40 years ago about praying in public school settings, e.g. before a high school football game in a stadium full of people. Whatever the legal and constitutional reasoning which has led to the prohibition of praying in government-owned spaces and government-sanctioned events, I think there is a cultural intuition, too, as to why some people (including me) find it distasteful and "bad form" to pray in public. We are a diverse nation, and we can't (or shouldn't) assume that everyone shares the same faith tradition. That's a consideration which is deeply embedded in our nation's history, going back to our formation as a country and even before. The advocates for school prayer and similar government-sanctioned prayer tend to be from cultures which assume monolithic Christianity (and especially Evangelical Christianity). The assumption (or perhaps wishful thinking) that we're all Christians has taken on a culture-war cast. Thus, I see prayer in a secular public space like a restaurant as sort of a culture-war act. It can be understood as a sort of provocation or imposition.
ReplyDeleteWhen I lived in the city of Chicago and relied on public transportation, from time to time a preacher would stand up on a city bus and start sharing his/her faith. We riders were a captive audience who either had to sit and listen to it, or get off at the next stop and wait for the next bus, which was a big inconvenience. I never saw anyone's life be converted by that form of "witness".
I'm strongly convinced that renewing our faith in Father, Son and Holy Spirit can change our lives. But there is a culturally appropriate way to do it.
I'm a participant in liturgy, which is public prayer by its nature. But that's not in the middle of a restaurant; it's in a space set aside for the purpose of prayer. In the United States, we distinguish between church space and public space, for good reason.
Jim - agree completely.
DeletePerhaps I am more aware of religious diversity than some others because, as I have often mentioned, christians are the minority in my neighborhood AND in the larger community I live in. Public prayer in secular places in our religiously pluralistic country is not appropriate. Basically it’s bad manners, as it is disrespectful of those of other religious backgrounds who happen to be in the same secular space.
Is wearing ashes on Ash Wednesday ok or is that ostentatious as well? I like wearing ashes but feel a little too noticeable when I wear them publicly. I actually would rather remain unnoticed.
ReplyDeleteAlso, flag waving? I get turned off by that stuff. My career was dedicated to the welfare of this country. I wish people would make their country great again by doing their jobs.
Interesting discussion. As we think about appropriate ways to pray in public, does it bother anyone to see Hindus or Muslims or Jews pray in public?
ReplyDeleteAnd to what extent is seeing others pray in public our own hangup rather than somebody following general rules of etiquette?
Stanley mentions wearing ashes. What about clerical collars, habits, payos, and hijab? Or wearing a cross, religious medal, or star of David? What about making the sign of the cross?
Where's the line?
Jean, there is a big difference between wearing clothing, or religious accessories or jewelry,p that are indicative of one’s personal religious beliefs and vocal public prayer in a restaurant, unless the religious group has reserved the entire restaurant. It is very easy to pray silently rather than draw attention to oneself. Making the sign of the cross without speaking words can be done silently. My Greek Orthodox friend always makes a barely discernible sign of the cross and says a silent grace before a meal when we eat in a restaurant. Nobody not at the same table would ever notice. Even those of us sitting with her often miss it. Four of us celebrated her birthday this week and I think I was the only one to even notice her sign if the cross as the other two women were engaged in a conversation.
ReplyDeleteEven though I live in a very religiously diverse community, I have never witnessed Jews, Muslims or Hindus praying out loud in a restaurant. It’s a practice that seems to be confined to christians. I have had Muslim work colleagues who prayed five times/day - usually two of the prayer times occurred during the work day. They did not take their prayer rugs into the cafeteria, or spread them out in a hallway used by all employees. They prayed in their offices with the door closed. If they only had a cubby in an open plan office they found a small, unused meeting room or empty office.. They prayed privately.
Since I have a strong interest in religion in general, and how people pray in their tradition, I have visited mosques, synagogues, and Buddhist centers. I have attended Christian churches of various denominations, including charismatic gatherings several times. Unfortunately I have yet to go to a Hindu worship service. I see many women in saris, and assume they are probably Hindu, but I don’t know where they worship. I should research that., We have lifelong friends who are evangelical charismatics. When we eat in restaurants with them they do not say grace. Thank goodness, because when we are dinner guests in their home we have to hold hands while he says a meandering grace that lasts a very long time. I always breathe an inward sigh of relief when he finishes. They have never prayed in tongues in our presence and apparently only do so when gathered with their charismatic community - not in public venues.
However, this is just my reaction to vocal prayers in a restaurant. If they are spoken softly and the pray- ers are discreet, few others will notice and so will not feel uncomfortable.
I am also like Stanley on the excesses of flag waving too. Obviously I would never complain to those who pray out loud in a restaurant, but i think they should show consideration for others in the restaurant. Just my personal opinion.
As a Unitarian, I didn't see much difference between someone praying aloud in public or wearing a cross. My parents always made a point to tell us they noticed someone wearing religious symbols, and warned us never to tell them we were Unitarians because the cross sweaters would be hostile. Catholics were exempt from this injunction because they didn't proselytize or try to lure you to Vacation Bible School.
ReplyDeleteWhen I had been away from home for some years, I became less fearful of "the others" and more tolerant of their religious displays.
I confess I am sometimes blind to the nuances of religious display. Charismatics make no sense to me, and I don't want to have anythingbto do with them. But I tend to see discomfort with religious displays as a personal issue.
*cross sweaters s/b cross-wearers. Geez Louise.
DeleteI am not interested in limiting others cultural expressions, only making sure that those expression are not imposed on unwilling others including myself.
ReplyDeleteI view public prayer as simply an expression of someone's religious culture. I am quite happy to experience it as someone else's culture. So, if I were in a restaurant and a Jew wanted to give a blessing, either in Hebrew or English, I would be glad to listen and learn.
On the other hand, if someone at the table handed out a prayer card and asked for everyone to join in, I would receive the prayer in silent attentiveness. And let them draw their own conclusions about my silence.
If they decided to conduct a service during the meal, even if it were my beloved Divine Office, I guess I would say something like "I am not in the mood for extensive prayer, could we keep it brief" especially if I sensed that other people might not want to do that. That is essentially what I did when declined to endorse the Divine Office before Commonweal meetings. I don't think anyone should feel that they might not be part of an "in group' by not coming earlier.
On the other hand, because I am going to be eighty in a few months, I am going to begin educating people that if they want my company they need to come to my home rather than me coming to church. The pandemic has basically taught me that I will be on my own whenever I become disabled since both my relatives and Betty's are at a far distance.
So, I plan to offer evenings at my house that will begin with vespers, followed by a Commonweal discussion with liturgical music and snacks afterward for those who want stay late. I plan to recruit someone else to take my role in organizing the larger Commonweal meetings since I no longer feel I can commit to regular attendance.
While I have always celebrated the Divine Office for my whole life, I have found that being able to celebrate it daily with Betty is a great improvement. I use the word celebrate because I have always either accompanied the office with music or mentally sang the psalms.
So, I plan to develop a retirement support network around the Divine Office. I have my own web site to support that. I am willing to help other people celebrate the Divine Office at home on in small groups, occasionally visiting them or inviting them to come to my house in small groups, and keeping in touch with them by phone, e-mail or maybe even a discussion blog like this.
This discussion has been very helpful in alerting me that some other people might not be appreciative of other people praying the Divine Office. My sense all along is that I don't want the Divine Office to become another program in the parish even if pastoral support causes an initial substantial turnout. Those programs always end up being small anyhow. Rather I want a very grass roots movement, that people can use my website to help others pray alone or in groups in any location they want. I plan to carry around with me a small leaflet about my website that I can use like a business card. I have bought an ipad which means that Betty and I can meet with several individuals or small groups to give them instruction of the use of the website on their phones, pads, or home computers.
I guess I will warn people to avoid restaurants and unless they reserve a private room. Try a picnic table at Headlands Beach, they are far apart. Betty and I have tried that, and you cannot hear the music from the ipad more than about fifty feet away; but it works well for the picnic table.
Even more I will discourage people from trying to introduce the Divine Office into parish groups. I will tell them if it is an official group or one that meets on parish property they should consult the pastor first. As part of my emphasizing my eighty year old status I plan not to be available to help the parish. It is time for the parish to help me.
Further food for thought on religion in the public space is Michelle Boorstein's WaPo report this morning on white Christian nationalism:
ReplyDelete"What tied many unconnected people and groups together [on Jan 6] was a shared worldview that Christianity should be fused with civic life and that true Americans are White, culturally conservative and natural born citizens."
In my rural community, these folks are all over, flying their Trump 2024 Revenge Tour flags along side banners with Easter bunnies and He Is Risen crosses.
Catholics need to be aware that these people are not your pals.
Jean, I just sent the link for that story to the only two of our-generation family members who never drank the trump kool- aid. (most of the adult children of our generation are not trumpistas - just their parents, our sibs). I’ve sent multiple stories in recent years warning about the agenda of the white Christian nationalists, one of the reasons I am so concerned about the Catholic Church joining the white evangelicals in their attempts to destroy separation of church and state. Among their projects has been getting legislation passed to provide taxpayer funding for their religious schools, which the Catholics support because they can’t get enough $ anymore from parishioners to subsidize parochial schools given the loss of tens of millions of Catholics in the last 30-40 years. So they want everyone to support their schools and their religion now. Betsy De Vos was helping there. They have also been working with considerable success to get on public school boards. Now they are working on voter suppression efforts that target minorities. The GOP is happy to have them on board and is serving this agenda using the totally ludicrous charge that their “freedom of religion “ is being eroded, and that christians are being persecuted. This movement is actually the biggest threat to legitimate religious freedom in our country at the present time.
ReplyDeleteThe truck convoy has been hanging out on DC roads for two weeks now. I’ve had to dig for information as when they stayed on the beltway they made zero impact. There are apparently about 100 semis, mostly only the cab, and the rest are pickups and cars, mostly SUVs from what I’ve read. The beltway carries more than 200,000 cars.day so 400 vehicles make no impact. A few days ago they got frustrated at their lack of impact so they started driving into DC causing backups at the bridges, and driving through the city honking their horns. That grandstander, Ted Cruz, decided to drive in one of the trucks leading the convoy to get them a bit more publicity I guess. Yesterday some said they were headed downtown to Black Lives Matter Plaza ( renamed after the George Floyd protests)to “reclaim” it and remove every drop of paint on the pavement. The latent racism beginning to surface.
I have had to google to find the reports. It’s not front page news here, just in some of the downtown traffic reports. Has this “convoy” been covered much in your local news sources in the Midwest/Pennsylvania?
Yah, in America, even the Catholics are Protestants. I am not sure where devotion to the saints, appreciation for art, and focus on the acts of mercy has got to in the church. It's all rules, rules, rules where I am.
DeleteI only know what I read about in the Post about the convoy. Not surprised to hear Cruz is helping them. He met with some of their spokesmen earlier this month. Rand Paul also expressed support. I guess neither senator is given pause by the fact that the convoy participants are pissed off, but about what is not wholly clear.
Jack, while you might not mind if fellow diners pray loudly enough for you to hear them in a restaurant, some of the other diners would not feel the same way. Those who go to a restaurant to relax, enjoy a nice meal without cooking, serving, or clean- up chores. might feel a bit of resentment at the imposition of someone’s religion on them in a secular public space. If people insist on praying they should be very discreet about it. But often these public displays of religion in a secular venue, usually by christians, are meant to be noticed - they WANT to be seen- because they view it as a form of “evangelizing”.
ReplyDeleteAs the saying goes, there is a time and place for everything. Just as few people want to be exposed to a couple of teenagers making out in a restaurant booth, few want someone else’s religion imposed on them in a place where it’s inappropriate., Most people are polite enough to ignore it, but they don’t welcome it.
There are exceptions- often people host a large group in a restaurant to celebrate a religious milestone for a family family member, such as First Communion, Confirmation, or a Bar/Bat Mitzvah. In those cases the restaurant usually arranges seating to minimize the impact of the large group on other diners. I had only family at our kids’ baptism and first communion brunches, and I had these parties in our home. But I have been to a number of Bar/Bat Mitzvah celebrations in public venues. These were large parties, generally held in one of the private rooms of a large restaurant or country club. None of these religious celebrations were done for purposes of evangelization, just private celebrations like birthdays.
DeleteTeenagers making out in a restaurant? Anne, I might have that beat. I saw two adults sucking face in the middle of Dachau.
Delete