This Washington Post Story which I am taking from Microsoft News feed should be free.
How the rioters who stormed the Capitol came dangerously close to Pence
My comments:
The rioters were more angry at Pence than anybody else because he would not throw out the results.
Think of the scenarios that could have happened if they had caught him.
They might have killed him.
They might have harmed him.
They might have taken him as hostage.
The Secret Service might have had to kill a bunch or rioters (wonder what their guidance is if the VP is in eminent danger. I presume in the case of the president it is shoot to disable or kill, don't take chances of just wounding ).
None of this fits into conventional notions of culture war motivations. This would have been about harming the person whom you hoped would have done what you wanted. More like the Mafia which have hits not only again competitive enemies but also against anyone who fails to support the Don or who betrays him.
I had read the WaPo article previously about how Pence had been in danger. My respect for him has risen because of his actions in not caving in to Trump's demands. If that sounds weird, it's because it is. I mean, he was *merely* doing his duty. But under a great deal of pressure, and as it turned out, physical threat to his safety. And he wasn't the only one in the crosshairs of the mob, there were many others, including Nancy Pelosi.
ReplyDeleteAlexandra Ocasio- Cortez (otherwise known as AOC, had this to say:
"I can tell you that I had a very close encounter where I thought I was going to die,” she said, noting that she couldn’t get into specifics for security reasons. “I did not know if I was going to make it to the end of that day alive.”
What is really bad is that some of their own colleagues may have aided in abetting the mob and giving them information that that put members of the assembly in danger.
I thought Pence's impromptu speech, as quoted in the WaPo article, was stirring. He rose to the occasion.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThese invaders have whittled down their brains to reflexive ganglia. I think an infiltrator with a perverse imagination (like me) could have waved large pictures of the Trump-supporting Republican congresspersons in front of them, yelled "these are the commie liberal Democrats" and they would have been programmed like cruise missiles.
ReplyDeleteIf I were someone like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I'd keep a MAGA hat handy. If a murderous mob broke through, she could tuck her hair up under the accursed hat and I don't think these morons would know it was her. Also, if an attack is pending, wear jeans and street clothes. They can blend in and escape.
I just think this is classic mob behavior / mob psychology. I assume that not everybody who left the rally to march to the Capitol building had violence and mayhem in mind, but some surely did, and as the chaos spread, the spirit of violence and destruction "infected" others in the mob.
ReplyDeleteAbout mob behavior, I remember asking my mom about the KKK when I was in grade school, and she gave a good description of it. Said that some people would do things when they thought they were anonymous that they wouldn't do if others knew who they were, and they could easily be swept along in a kind of group think, to do things that they wouldn't have considered on their own.
DeleteI do sort of understand that, but what is less understandable are things such as the gallows and the zip tie restraints, which were premeditated. You are right that some were there intending to cause harm.
As far as anonymity, if anyone thought they would remain anonymous in the age of cell phone cameras and security footage, they were mistaken.
One of the holes in the current reporting is how many people were at the rally, how many people jumped the bicycle fencing and were thus trespassing, and how many people actually made it into the building. There are lots of photographs from which experts should be able to make some estimates.
DeleteKatverine, I read somewhere that federal authorities are able to identify every cell phone which was turned on and physically within the Capitol during that time. I expect that will bust quite a few people, of trespassing for starters. And surely many of the chief mayhem-makers already were on FBI right-wing-wacko watch lists.
DeleteRecall phones - that is property true although I assume they will need warrants in order to access the records. I imagine they will get those warrants pretty easily.
DeleteSomewhat unrelated, organizers have cancelled the in-person March for Life this year. I had been worried about that, because a busload of kids from here usually attends. It just seemed like there was too much that could go wrong, between Covid and all that has happened in DC. The local sponsors may have nixed it this year anyway. But good to know that it is going virtual instead.
ReplyDeleteI think they are going to try a virtual event in Chicago this year. Not exactly sure how that would work.
DeleteWhat's the point of a virtual thing? It'll just be people who don't need to get "woke," no? Why not do an installation or something. The local Baptists put out those little white crosses on the church lawn to signify the number of abortions done in Michigan last year.
DeleteI keep thinking the food bank should do something like that to highlight poverty in our area.
I think that a national hour of prayer for right to life would be more to the point than, as you say, a virtual event preaching to the woke.
DeleteRight - I expect the organizers of the annual marches, and the organized groups (like our parish's little Respect Life ministry) which take part in those sorts of things, just kind of expect to do *something* every year.
DeleteMore broadly speaking, I think marches (the real kind) are more for the fully-woke and the half-awake than they are for those who adamantly want to roll over and stay asleep. The events serve as inspirational gatherings for those who already are true believers, and as media-friendly public shows. So they have their uses.
Mike Pence sold his soul because he thought it would support his ambition to become president himself. He came through for the country at one minute to midnight, knowing that it would probably mean an end to his presidential ambitions.
ReplyDeleteHe deserves credit for that even as he deserves criticism for his aquience in supporting trump at all times.
A Faustian bargain for sure.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/mike-pences-career-over/617676/
The full investigative resources of government will have to be directed at possible domestic terrorism. I expect them to kill a number of us in the next couple years. I tend to imagine things on a Gaussian curve. If 70,000,000 people were deluded enough to vote for Trump, how many are three sigma or more to the crazier wing of this massive population. Tell me I'm wrong and demonstrate I'm wrong and I'll be a happy man. But I will be on alert.
ReplyDeleteOther Americans have always been more dangerous than any foreign aggressors or agents. When our republic falls, it will fall from within.
DeleteSubmitted for your consideration: Thursday I visited Lance, my friendly auto shop proprietor. He wasn't wearing a mask, but he didn't hassle me about mine. Probably because months ago I took a tip from another cancer patient in my group who was sick of getting hassled about her mask and wrote wrote "chemo patient" on it with a Sharpie. (They're not just for altering weather maps!)
Anyway, Lance's office was more jacked up with gun pics and Trump signs than usual. He asked if I was interested in selling my uncle's 1930s Winchester pump action.
No, Lance, I'm gonna hang onto it a while. Sure as hell not going to add to your arsenal.
And Exhibit B is this missive on the local paper from a concerned citizen:
DeleteI was in D.C. on the day of the “coup”and what I saw was a lot of good Americans feeling cheated and were there to speak up.
But it seems like the forces-that-be sent in antifa thugs to pretend to be Trumpsters and cause damage and violence. If you look at most of the troublemakers, they were dressed in black and had bear spray, mace and bottles of urine to toss at innocent folks. No one mentions that wherever liberals go they leave behind a mess, and broken stuff and pushed-over fences. It was no different this time, if I would have seen those antifa thugs breaking things, I would have pulled them dowm myself.
Our fight against fake news must start in our little town. I have come to realize it starts at this very small paper we have right here. Almost every article that is in this paper is against Donald Trump. I have spoken to the owner and he said he could not get any political cartoons making fun of liberals. I called the editor and complained. He is a Nazi party member admittedly. He said he is glad Trump’s free speech rights were removed from the internet. Imagine that, the editorial director in favor of stopping someone else’s right to free speech. How much worse of a crime against our freedoms can a newspaper do?
Nazism starts at [address removed]. I drove 10 hours to Washington just to learn communism and totalitarianism starts right here with Mr. [name removed]. He obviously is against Trump because he fell for the whole fake show in D.C.
Trump people clean up, respect the police and believe in freedom and responsibility. I assume he was in favor of antifa and Black Lives Matter burning and looting and assaulting people. How sick is it that you can beat a guy with a red hat on and [editor's name removed] condones it? I suppose he wants the border wall torn down also and any person who wants to come to just come and we will support them and require them to vote liberal.
How long would liberals like it if we beat and robbed and looted their cities? Oh, they already did. They clearly are following exactly the steps Adolf Hitler did. Does he know how and why Hitler invaded Poland? Bet not. Ever wonder how Hitler did it, look around. I know now.
I'm in Monroe County in PA. A lot of Trump voters here but we still went for Biden. I can't imagine what it's like to be embedded among the insane. I think it was the non-white people who edged us from a disastrous second four years. With 55% of even white women voting for Trump, maybe the more immigrants the better. But then there's general human nature, which I don't trust very much. Hispanics and blacks DID vote for Trump. Good Lord! Why?!
DeleteJean, that letter to the editor is pretty wacky. I've seen some stuff here, but nothing quite that bad. It makes me think of 20 years or more ago when cults like the Moonies or Hare Krishna were in the news. And some worse ones like the Jonestown bunch and Heaven's Gate. Deprogramming was a thing for awhile. But I think it wasn't that successful, people had to come out of it on their own. And eventually a lot of them did. Unfortunately some died for their cause.
DeleteI saw an article which classified Trump voters as either "gamers" or "breakers". Pretty self explanatory, except I would add a sub category to the breakers, "nutty as a fruitcake".
Stanley, what I've read about the Blacks and Hispanics who voted for Trump is that a lot of them have started businesses, and they perceive Republicans as being more business friendly.
DeleteExhibit C: Ginny Thomas, wife of Justice Clarence, who spent years extracting herself from the Lifespring cult only to fall prey to right-wing conspiracies and leave crank messages on Anita Hill's phone. I think some people are drawn to cults and fringe movements.
DeleteBeing embedded with the insane during the pandemic has taken a mental health toll. Besides Lance in the auto shop, there are the folks who run my favorite five-and-dime, who suddenly turned hysterical evangelical Trumpist antimaskers. "How can we have abundant life if we avoid each other? Jesus didn't wear a mask, he went into homes and raised the sick and dead!" according to their FB feed.
DeleteThe only people I can bear to see locally are the gay barber and our mail carrier/village councilwoman. I really need to let them know other sanity is appreciated.
And, yes, African-American voters saved our white asses from another four years of Trump.
DeleteKatherine, what do your trump supporting relatives think about the attack on the Capitol?
ReplyDeleteI don’t talk with my trump supporting family members so can’t ask them.
Among the family trump supporters are my brother and his wife in Arizona who survived Covid last summer. Three days ago, my sister-in-law lost her brother to Covid. He also lived in Arizona (a current hot spot again)
Out of my Trump supporting relatives, not one word about Jan. 6. They've been on Facebook talking about some family history stuff, but that's all. I'm certainly not going to bring it up. Maybe it's too much to hope for that it was a wakeup call for them.
DeleteGirls, that was antifa posing as Trump supporters! George Soros pays them and the BLM marchers. That's another popular claim out here in the Cornfield.
DeleteI understand why Biden wants to do the swearing in outside, on the Capitol steps, as normal. But I really wish he wouldn't. I won't breathe easy about it until it's over.
DeleteUnrelated, we just got signed up on the public health district's site for Covid vaccine. It's opened up to 65-plus now here. No idea when our turn will come up, but we got in line. They're supposed to let us know.
ReplyDeleteThis is a disaster in my county. Most of my friends outside of the area have had their first shot. Glad for a friend up north who had a stroke. They came to her house to give it.
DeleteJean, is there a site where you can register to be notified when it's available?
DeleteNope. I signed up for notifications back in December, and they send me to a page that you have to check obsessively in case there are openings. There is a big WE ARE NOT STAFFED TO ANSWER PHONE CALLS ABOUT COVID VACCINE DISTRIBUTION on the page.
DeleteWe have only 1,600 doses for a tri-county area of about 200,000 people because the health dept director declined to accept Pfizer vac because of special handling concerns.
It is unclear how much more is coming or when. You cannot go outside your health dept area for vax.
Here in Lake County, Ohio, the County Health Department is encouraging people over 65 and those with a rather narrow list of mostly lifelong disabilities to register. Next week they will begin with people over 80, and work down the age groups to 65. They say they will notify you when to make an appointment.
DeleteA list of providers for Lake County has come out. It includes the Health Department, the Local Hospital, and a number of pharmacies including the one at my grocery store. The Hospital site says to register with the Health Department. The Grocery store pharmacy says they will give more information about making an appointment once they are sure of getting the vaccine. I suspect the Health Department and the Hospital have already been vaccinating medical people and first responders while the pharmacy has not.
Although I am in the over 75 group, I suspect that unless they get more vaccine they will not be finished with those over 80 for at least a month.
Just a heads up. A stronger reaction to the second shot can be expected and has been reported. Friend MaryAnn's nurse daughter recovered from COVID. She just received her first vaccine shot and developed fever and fatigue. Having COVID made her first shot like the second. Pre-plan pp
DeletePre-plan accordingly.
DeleteYes, I have heard that, too, Stanley.
DeleteJack, I think the inoculation roll-outs will vary greatly by state and locality. Michigan has an extremely fragmented and decentralized health department system. Just reporting COVID cases daily and consistently seemed to be a problem from the outset. Testing and reporting has taken so much time to coordinate that departments have not had much time for vaccination plans, and state coordination is limited.
My parents live a few counties over, and their county health department permits residents to sign up online. I signed up my dad. My mom, who was a COVID patient recently (seemingly fine now) wants to consult with her doctor before signing up for the vaccine. In that county, as elsewhere across Illinois, we're in Phase 1A, which is supposed to be for health care workers and nursing home residents. But my mom tells me that one of her friends who had signed up on the website, but who isn't in a Phase 1A category, was called by the health department and told she could get vaccinated if she could make it to a particular clinic at a particular time.
DeleteI believe that many counties who have taken delivery of the Pfizer vaccine are struggling to varying extents to match up supply with demand. On the supply side: the Pfizer vaccine doesn't have a permanent shelf life, especially when it is pulled out of the deep freeze. I understand it is packaged in relatively large lots, so once a package is removed from the freezer, there is a limited amount of time to get the doses injected into arms.
On the demand side, some health care workers are declining the vaccine. The same may be happening with nursing home residents. I've spoken with one or two parishioners who work in hospitals who have declined to be vaccinated. Can I just say: I find it difficult to express how frustrating that is. I think some of them fear the side effects. And it seems likely that some of them are simply anti-vaxxers of one sort or another. One person told me her dentist(!) advised her against getting the vaccine. Why this dentist would know more about it than the CDC isn't clear to me.
Of course, when you administer the vaccine to millions, there will be cases of bad side effects and death. It's risk versus reward. Someone I know has autoimmune problems. Her doctor recommends she NOT take it for fear of a cytokine storm. Can't hurt to consult your doctor. I think I'm ok. I expect some sort of pre-screen anyway.
DeleteRe cytokine storm: My oncologist is talking out of both sides of her mouth. She is, overall, encouraging us to get the vaccine, but also saying it "wouldn't hurt" to continue to distance and limit travel and exposure until more people are vaccinated and side effects are known.
DeleteSo continue to check our local sign-up page daily, but am not in a lather about getting inoculated.
I am getting a lot of unwanted "advice" from family and friends who keep sending me notices about where I might be able to sneak in a vaccination.
You are supposed to stay in your own county so as not to take shots away from people in other localities, and I am unhappy with people who feel I am not doing enough to get my dose and everyone else be damned.
I think we all need to take a deep breath and remember there is a moral side to this whole deal, and sneaking down to the nursing home to try to wangle an early shot or taking someone else's vaccine in the next county over isn't right.
Here the policy is to give the shots first to the healthcare workers and vulnerable groups, but also not to let any of it go to waste. If they already got the target group at a given location, and there is some left, then give it to whoever is there and wants it.
DeleteI am not too worried in general at this point about people who don't want it, we're still struggling to people who do. Except, my dad is one of the ones who doesn't want it. I think he is afraid of an allergic reaction. He has had some scary anaphylactic episodes in the past, but those were from food allergies. He says, "Well, if everyone I have contact with gets vaccinated, I don't need it, right?" Trouble is "everybody" won't get it for a long time, especially the younger people.
They just this afternoon added over 65s to healthcare workers in LA. I snagged two appointments for Friday. Crossed fingers.
DeleteEspecially for Jean but of interest to all we non-journalists as well.
ReplyDeleteHope you call can read it. It's in the WaPo.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/media-fight-trump-big-lie/2021/01/15/d3cafa3c-5745-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html
Thanks! I have a subscription, and I enjoy reading Margaret Sullivan. Looks like she doesn't like the formula "baseless claims" either: "Part of that involves going back to journalism fundamentals. We need to provide evidence and verification, instead of blustery claims and outrage — the bread-and-butter of cable news."
DeleteI think it is more tempting to do this in broadcast reports, but I hope we will return to journalism that doesn't fan the flames after the Trumpers have set everyone's hair on fire with lies (yes, a cliche, I know, but seems apt here).
Good article. And good suggestions for shutting down lies.
DeleteI read elsewhere that countering the big lies was similar to ways used to stop ISIS from radicalizing people.
I'm sorry I'm not able to read that article without paying. If she is objecting to news reporters describing Trump's baseless claims as "baseless claims" rather than simply as "claims" - then I am with her. It's not that the claims are not baseless; it just doesn't seem to be the reporter's job to reach our conclusions for us.
DeleteJim, yes, that was part of the article. This is a quote, "...going back to journalism fundamentals. We need to provide evidence and verification, instead of blustery claims and outrage."
Delete