When is over?
When the Pennsylvania results come int? That won’t be until Friday.
When the last lawsuit is settled? In 2000, that wasn’t until Dec. 14.
When the president is sworn in, Jan. 20?
When congressional gridlock ends? When will that be?
The truth is, even when it is over, it won’t be over.
“The past is never dead. It’s not even past.”
Twice in U.S. History the will of the voters was reversed after they had voted. Once the deed was done in the Electoral College, once by the Supreme Court. Three of the lawyers who helped to bring about the latter reversal now sit on the Supreme Court. In both cases, the Republican loser was declared the winner. Yet it is the Republican Party that keeps saying it worries about voter fraud. What’s that all about?
Guilty consciences?
Tuesday, November 3, 2020
Interim Final Thoughts
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I expect we will "pretty much" know by Friday. I think it will be ironic if the counts late tonight favor Biden, and Trump's last hope is those late-arrival mail-in votes that he has been so anxious to disqualify.
ReplyDeleteI am encouraged that things have sobered up a bit on social media. Some of the posters of wild-eyed memes are now posting things like, "Whatever happens, let's remember that we aren't enemies." Going to be some bad hangovers afterwards though. Maybe the whole nation needs to do a twelve-step.
Based on my own feelings, I’m not at all sure that the divide won’t persist. Not even a 12 step program would work.. The divide isn’t about policy issues, it’s about core values.
ReplyDeleteReuter’s ran an article on this yesterday-
She is not sure those rifts with friends and family will ever mend, because each believes the other to have a totally alien value system....
We had such fundamental disagreements about such basic stuff. It showed both sides that we really don’t have anything in common....
Because Trump has been one of the most polarizing figures in American history around core values and issues, people are unwilling to compromise and that is not something you can make go away,
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-families/you-are-no-longer-my-mother-a-divided-america-will-struggle-to-heal-after-trump-era-idUSKBN27I16E
Another blogger on why this divide will be difficult- maybe impossible- to heal.
ReplyDeleteThe author is a Protestant pastor in North Carolina. He was raised RC.
That’s why I need you to understand that this isn’t just a schism on one issue or a single piece of legislation, as those things would be manageable. This isn’t a matter of politics or preference. This is a pervasive, sprawling, saturating separation about the way we see the world and what we value and how we want to move through this life.
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2020/10/18/no-i-wont-agree-to-disagree-youre-just-wrong/
I am more cautious about thinking that it is a wide and deep chasm about core values. Maybe because I grew up with a mom who was a passionate Goldwater Republican, and a grandma who was just as passionate an FDR Democrat. (They were daughter-in-law/mother -in-law). They had some lively discussions, but at the end of the day they were family. The disagreement was about the role government should play, rather than core values. In the present day there is a sibling divide, with brothers being Trump voters, and sisters being "Trump is going down!!" And a dad who says, " You girls need to get past your dislike of Trump, it's not really about him!"
ReplyDeleteAu contraire. mon pere, it's all about him. We can think about the other stuff after he is out, but he has to be out. All of us are still speaking to one another, and I haven't unfriended anyone. Though I did "snooze for 30 days" some people on Facebook.
Due to K. being a deacon, we are involved with parishioners, and can't let their political preferences get under our skin too much. They're all good people, but some of them belive weird stuff, like Trump is really a good guy, just a rough exterior. I don't actually care about his exterior, he's rotten to the core, but whatever.
My mother was both a passionate FDR Democrat and a passionate Goldwater Republican at different times in her life. I was a passionate Republican for most of my adult life. I am not a passionate Democrat though. I am a mostly moderate, and politically homeless Independent.
ReplyDeleteBut, my core values are the determining factor in how I am voting, not trade policy, or tax policy, or the national debt or even the overarching role and size of the government.
In 2016, Trump ran a campaign of sowing fear and hatred of people with brown skin. He has doubled down, now making it crystal clear that black people are also to be feared, hated and denied justice. The willingness to tolerate someone who deliberately seeks to divide this country into “us and them” and by skin color is a core value. Those who tolerate it for the sake of a tax cut, or billions in farm subsidies because trumps easy to win trade war has failed, have very different core values than those whose values include wanting the words “ liberty and justice for ALL” to actually mean something in this country.
You are in a tough position Katherine, and I understand your desire to keep your family together. But the reality is - this is not mostly about the role of government ( which trump has abused to further his political goals) but about core values.
Just got an email telling me that my absentee ballot vote has been counted.,
ReplyDeleteThis is for you, Katherine, in case you haven’t read NCR this morning.
ReplyDeleteI honestly don’t think I can do it. But, Sr. Delio’s advice to connect with humanity’s roots in the natural world might help. I took a class from her a few years ago on the history of the development of spirituality. I was the only person in the class who wasn’t a cleric, a nun, or some kind of lay minister in the church or in a RC school. It was a good class.
https://www.globalsistersreport.org/news/news/news/people-are-raw-sisters-reflect-how-we-live-together-post-election
Thanks for linking that article, Anne. It's great, and really has so much food for thought. In fact I might do a post on it later, unless you had intended to. If so I don't want to "steal" it from you.
DeletePlease do, Katherine. It’s a good article.
DeleteI do understand a bit that fighting abortion is a core value for many. But I am a pragmatist - abortion is not going to disappear, even if Roe falls. The real world goal should be to reduce the need by addressing the underlying factors that push women into seeking abortion. These policies have reduced the abortion rate in Europe to well below that of the US. Policies that have been effective in reducing abortion rates are far more likely to be funded and implemented by democrats than by republicans, who see to weaken safety nets.
ReplyDeleteSeek to weaken...
ReplyDeleteHope Deacon Jim has a good day working the polls. We are raking leaves and will take a tour of polling places this afternoon to see how many gunmen are "guarding" our liberties.
ReplyDeleteI see Nate Silver at Fivethirtyeight is hedging his bets, noting that even though Biden has a slight lead in some battleground states, Trump could still win outright, never mind his legal machinations if he loses.
I have some books to read in my room this evening. I am not going to watch returns all night with Raber. One of us has to stay sane.
If Trump is re-elected and Republicans maintain a hold on the Senate and state houses, I think a lot of us will have to learn to move on with life in which there are no checks whatever on mean, dumb, greedy, and mendacious.
If you can’t focus on books, here are some other ideas -
Deletehttps://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=SmxnrSajE14
I just this moment finished The Last Chronicle of Barset. Trollope does go on. But he gets one out of 2020.
DeleteYes, the cats remind me that catering to their whims and desires provides structure to my days. Whoever wins, they will need to be fed, played with, doted on, etc.
DeleteAlas, I did Barset a few years ago. I am on Edith Wharton, but she is less charming now than when I was 35.
No guns at the polls or Trumpistas milling about town.
BYW, thanks to all who prayed for Father Joe yesterday. I knew I could get a status update if I went through the right checkout lane at HyVee. He doesn't have Covid, and he didn't have a heart attack, and is recuperating at home. He was catching a cold and was physically run down and exhausted.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of Mass he tried to get up out of the chair and insisted he could walk out on his own (Jim P, you were right he "didn't want a fuss") At the point one of the EMTs did a *face palm* and said, "No, you're not." So he got an ambulance ride and is under doctor's orders to stay home and rest for the next several days.
IT WILL NOT BE OVER BUT IT WILL CHANGE.
ReplyDeleteObviously the pandemic will not be over, at least for six months and maybe much longer.
If Trump wins he will strongly push his way of dealing with the pandemic, and many people, organizations and institutions will push back.
If Biden wins, everyone is still stuck with Trump for almost three months. It is difficult to image him being hands off, let alone
cooperative with an incoming Democratic administration.
It also is difficult to imagine Trump staying quiet after he leaves office. He is likely to start campaigning for 2024 immediately, just as he started to campaign for 2020 immediately after being inaugurated. He has twitter and his twitter following, he doesn’t need anything else. We are going to have to lock him up in order to get rid of him.
EVERYTHING IS MORE LIKELY TO GET WORSE BEFORE IT GETS BETTER. We are more likely to get rid of the pandemic than of Trump.
What do Montenegro, Andorra, Bosnia Herzegovina, Serbia, and Moldova have in common? They're all European countries which don't have an extradition treaty with the US. Trump has said in that joking-not-joking way of his that he might leave the country if he loses. I think that the reason he is so hell bent on not losing the election is that there is a line waiting with indictments, starting with the State of New York, when he no longer has presidential immunity. As one of my sisters said, "Hope Junior is fueling up the plane." So I suppose it is too much to hope for that he will cut the lame duck period short if he loses, and "make like a tree and leave".
DeleteThe government provides Secret Service protection for ex-presidents. I wonder how that works if they choose to live in a foreign country?
Agree with you, Jack.
DeleteWherever he goes, Trump will still be on Twitter, able to constantly stir up trouble. He wants to be the center of attention. Fox will likely continue to have him as a commentator. There was some talk of starting his own network if his presidential bid had failed.
DeleteTrump doesn’t like other countries. He wants his own gilted mansions. All of those countries are in cold places too. Maybe he can build a mansion on one of the Indian Ocean islands - as long as he can find one without an extradition treaty. If he goes overseas, quite sure Melania won’t be with him. She misses her rich New York ladies who lunch and shop lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteThere are news reports that he is worried about criminal indictments if he leaves office. Which is why I fully expect a fight to the bitter end if he loses. He will do whatever it takes to be president for life if he fears prison. There might have to be a secret deal promising (in advance) a pardon if a prison sentence becomes a reality in order to get him out if Biden wins.
Well, Vanuatu or the Maldives...I don't think Melania and he will stay together when he leaves office. He already had to re-negotiate the prenup to get her to stay this long.
DeleteIf Biden agrees to pardon Trump, he (Biden) should be impeached. The Trump crimes with the longest sentences seem to have been committed in New York. I'd love to see him asking Gov. Cuomo for an act of grace.
DeleteAll that would come after he attempts to pardon himself. The Constitution never thought of something is bizarre a that. The SCOTUS originalists will be at a loss.
I don't think Biden will pardon him. But can a president even pardon someone for something on the state level? If the state of NY indicts him wouldn't it be up to their governor? And a pardon from him would really be unlikely.
DeleteWhat is apparent this Wednesday morning is that we are a very divided country and will likely remain so for the foreseeable future.
ReplyDeleteClearly there are many Republicans who see the economy as much more important than the pandemic.
The end result of all this is that the pandemic will continue to spread and the economy will deteriorate.
I read a scientific journal article that modeled a three wave pandemic effect upon food supply. The waves of the pandemic were about equal in their health effects. However as time progressed their disruption on the food supply increased greatly. I see that as a model for the whole economy.
Before the first lockdowns we had stored a three month supply of food mostly in frozen form. Over the spring as that supply was used up, we began to stock the freezer with another three months supply, and put up a six month supply of canned goods from the garden. Those supplies are now supplemented by a three months supply of soups and other canned goods from the grocery.
We are not as organized as you, but I have stocked up on basics a few extra at a time so as not to contribute to shortages but to ensure we can weather a major disruption.
DeleteStill a nail biter. But we knew Trump would try to declare a victory based on in-person votes on Nov. 3. Still a lot of absentee/mailed ballots to be counted.
ReplyDeleteNebraska isn't all red. Biden got our 2nd district electoral vote. Pretty insignificant, but one vote could conceivably put us over the 270 mark.
This time the folks who voted for the Don and Crime Family Trump knew exactly what they would get. They want it. There is no excuse.
ReplyDeleteBack when the Chicago Tribune was the FoxNews of the era, people who read it said they did it for the comic strips, mainly Little Orphan Annie and Dick Tracy. Lousy strips. The Trumpoleons who say they did it for the economy are telling others, and maybe themselves, the same kind of fairy tale.
Kind of like the ones who used to buy Playboy for the articles?
DeleteAnother four years of the Abomination of Desolation will clinch the deal on the collapse of the American Empire. Unfortunately, it'll take American democracy with it. All those South American countries don't seem to war much with each other because they need their militaries to suppress their own people. Maybe that's the new us.
DeleteYes, the last election proved stupidity. This one may prove meanness, greed, and mendacity. I can't stop the Prince of Lies. But I am hoping I can stand against him in some constructive way.
DeleteMichigan map at the WaPo has turned from blue to white to red and now blue again.
Biden needs two of the five states in play. Trump needs four, according to the numbers game.
Biden won't win Georgia or NC. But add Pennsylvania to Michigan and Wisconsin, and Biden can probably make it through the electoral college vote and the gauntlet of GOP voting lawsuits.
Pennsylvania is not issuing updates until counting is cimpleted, so it stays red on the map for now giving me a big headache.
Right now I am fighting tears. Literally.
DeleteSo depressing.
ReplyDelete