I can picture maybe a "soft" opening happening, with daily Mass happening before the weekend celebrations do. Typically in the past there was plenty of distance at daily Mass, would people come in sufficient numbers to break the distancing requirements? Another possibility, in good weather, might be outdoor Masses, where there is plenty of room to spread out. It sounds tacky and awkward, but would it be possible to distribute Communion with the clergy or EMHCs wearing medical gloves? Speaking as an EMHC, that would take some practice. And it would help if the hosts were thicker and thus easier to pick up. I really hope the distancing doesn't go on too long (but long enough!) because we Catholics have a hard time being welcoming under the best of circumstances. Treating one another like lepers could all to easily become a habit.
We are NOT treating others like lepers, and that idea is what is driving the re-open crazies. We are trying to protect others in case we are asymptomatic.
Gloves are a way to.show.love.and concern for others. It's not "tacky."
Katherine, I grew up in a summer resort town. The church was quite small, but fine from Labor Day to Memorial Day weekend. There was an outdoor grotto with an altar etc for the large summer crowds. In the mountains of Southern California it never rains in the summer, so no awning or other coverings were needed. I much preferred the summer outdoor mass in the forest to the winter masses in the church.
That's the nice part about having a choir loft; we are only spewing germs into our mics. Or we could have some instrumental music. Our new organ is sitting in lonely neglect at present. I would be willing to wear a mask to Mass.
Anything that requires strict obedience is doomed. Back when we did the whole enchilada Easter Vigil -- starting with a bonfire behind Trinity Center, proceeding into the Center (English) and Fatima Hall (Spanish for the Liturgy of the Word, processing to the baptismal fount and finally into church two hours after the kickoff -- four ushers were detailed to keep people out of church until he Mass got there. The doors were locked, and there were ropes around the whole area to keep people out in addition to the ushers. But at least once every year some authorized person had to get into church for a music stand or a candle lighter or some other damn fool thing, and it would get physical trying to stop the women "waiting for the Mass" who would charge the door to get in behind him. The women (and their henpecked husbands) who hovered for the big moment had been told -- in English and Spanish -- that the Mass had begun on the other side of the campus. But they knew better, dammit. That's why we do the Easter Vigil entirely in the church now.
Anyhow, who will keep the kiddies under control? And who will help the lame, the halt and the blind who have to come with minders now?
So if Reese thinks he needs "strict obedience," fuggetabouddit.
I don't think there are enough priests to say six times as many Masses to take care of everybody.
Tom, I'm truly sorry that your parish powers that be caved to the Vigil cheaters. Couldn't they just have been let inside and left to stew in the pitch dark (maybe with the A/C off) while all the liturgical business proceeded elsewhere?
Maybe not, Katherine. This choir thought it was doing the right things, but it didn’t work. Maybe because people project their voices when singing and the tiny droplets spread farther
Our parish has "celebrated" Mass on Youtube for the last four Sundays. We watch it on our lap tops with one of us having the audio on. I applaud the effort, BUT...
I am not always a fan of the musical choices and the choir hogging the sound waves, but music makes a difference, especially when we have a hymn that everyone can sing (the winner here is "This My Song" sung to Sibelius's Finlandia), which the parish has been singing pretty regularly since the Iraq War! still going on, of course!). But not enough of those! Anyway, music helps no matter how good or bad....
But what I really miss is the halt and the lame, the children and besieged parents, people who dress for church and those who don't, multi-racial, multi-gendered, multi-confused who make up the congregation, even the "comfort" dog left beside the old confessional while his patient goes up to Communion. That you don't get on Youtube!
Did any of you see this article by Cathleen Kaveny, "After Coronavirus, How Will We Learn to Un-quarantine?" She makes the point that some us will get all too comfortable distancing. I can certainly see that tendency in myself. After months of being in outer space, re-entry can be tricky.
Now that I am deprived of human touch, I realize how much I miss it. Not only the contact with female dance partners but even just the handshakes with other guys. Thank the Lord my neighbor got a nice Standard Poodle and I get to rassle with the dog now and then. Returning to normal behaviour won't be like flipping a switch but physical isolation is no fun.
Stanley, "standard poodles", one of our neighbors used to have one, named Augie Doggie. Very nice friendly dog, loved kids. But had a habit of carrying off other people's stuff. Periodically the neighbor would have to go around and return people's items to them.
I don't think standard poodles are more larcenous than other breeds (and dogs are a lot less larcenous than humans!) Just was a funny quirk of this dog. Pets help us get through difficult times, even if they are other people's.
Didn’t think people would like Reese’s ideas. But given the realities, it seems his observations are on target. So it maybe it will be YouTube on Sunday for a long time.
A Mass without touching won't offend everybody. One of my deacon pals told the group the other day, "You Italians, who I think of as Petri dishes, are suffering now,, but we Germans call this 'home.'" And, of course, there are those who prefer their priest ad orientem so they don't have to look at any human faces (just rumps) as they contemplate. This could be a big win for the reform-of-the-reformers.
Honestly, I realize I am not a touchy-feely person, but this lamenting of the demise of skin-on-skin touch at the Mass is too much. There is nothing in the rubrics of the Mass that requires us to glom onto people, or that proscribes the host from being handled with extra care during times of widespread sickness. Being wary of mixing up our spit and hand germs at a time like this hardly constitutes a sin of pride.
Why not argue that those demanding a return to normal are the prideful ones: My faith is so strong that I believe I am immune if I swig from a common cup, poke my fingers in the holy water, and let Father give me the Host after only the most perfunctory and symbolic handwashings. I'm so holy that I will hold a missal that has never been disinfected, and hug and kiss people I barely know at the Peace.
The reality of old age is such that there will come a time when most of us will be confined at home, and probably should no longer be going to Mass. This is just an opportunity to prepare for life at that time.
Here in Lake County with our lake effect snows there are frequently Sundays in which it is just better not to go to Mass at the parish. I always tuned in the Notre Dame Mass which is broadcast live on Catholic TV. I feel very at home there since I used to worship there during summer school, and of course they pray for me as an ND alumni.
During the rest of the year I often went to a parish about 20 minutes away because it had a better liturgy. No reason why they should not be streaming the Mass on Sundays just as Notre Dame does.
We have an Orthodox parish in a nearby county which streams all their liturgies. If a parish as small as Orthodox parishes are (most of ours that size we have closed) can do it, any of our parishes can.
Off topic, but I can't believe Trump said this! A new level of wacky, to suggest injecting disinfectant as a cure, earning himself the title of "Tide pod president".
What will it take for his supporters to see what he really is? I very often find myself deep in despair with worry about what kind of country this will be when our young grandchildren are grown up. The oldest of the six will have his 6th birthday next week. With a zoom party so his friends and family can wish him happy birthday). The November election will be the deciding factor and I am not hopeful.
Reese usually is extremely insightful, but I am sorry to say, I don't think this thought experiment is one of his better efforts.
Admittedly, I come at this from a conservative perspective. I find all too much nanny-state (nanny-church) rule-dictating in his predictions.
All of us are adults, and we're called to use our best judgment. Most of us (although certainly not all!) are smart enough to practice social distancing ourselves, and even to risk superficial rudeness by telling the thoughtless person who has entered our greatly-expanded personal space to back off and get at least six feet away. The people will figure it out without the need for detailed top-down direction. Certainly, pastors and bishops (just like governors and presidents) can reinforce the message.
Part of the people's figuring it out will be determining whether or not to show up. If they feel it's too risky, they won't come. So be it. Nobody should blame them. It's their judgment, and we should assume it's perfectly valid. The mass-attendance requirement should remain suspended, and parishes should continue to livestream or broadcast pre-recorded masses for many months after the churches re-open, for the sake of those whose judgment is that they should still avoid large public gatherings.
Our church packed people in like sardines - in 1993. These days, our mass attendance is about half of what it was back then. Some of our Sunday masses have been practicing the equivalent of social distancing for years. Besides, family members have been living in the same household for months together. I doubt any of them are practicing social distancing within the home, so there should be no practical issue with them sitting next to one another in a pew.
Jim: "All of us are adults, and we're called to use our best judgment. Most of us (although certainly not all!) are smart enough to practice social distancing ourselves..."
I think from experience that this has nothing to do with adulthood and a lot to do with where you come from, especially your ethnic roots. I am your basic Irish-German mongrel, and I am definitely and permanently a social-distancer, even in the best of times. Experience tells me that some regard this as standoffish and unfriendly. Their adult behavior is not only kissy-feely, it's when standing or sitting in church our bodies should touch! Much has been made of Italy's infection rate: hugging and kissing--proximity is the rule of good relations. Our parish does not have many, if any, Italians, but it has Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Mexicans....who are warm and friendly and show it by proximity, like crowding into the pew. I have gotten use to this, but I think there is little chance of serious social distancing in the months to come, so I'm hoping that Gov. Cuomo's announcement that maybe 20 percent of us have had the virus and that herd immunity will save us in the long term--maybe 2022?
"Throughout his career, Hall introduced a number of new concepts, including proxemics, monochronictime, polychronic time, and high-context and low-context cultures. In his second book, The Hidden Dimension, he describes the culturally specific temporal and spatial dimensions that surround each of us, such as the physical distances people maintain in different contexts."
I saw a brief article somewhere within the last day or so about the Georgia governor's plan to reopen the state, the first stage of which begins, I believe, today. (Tattoo parlors are essential? I guess I need to respect cultural differences - maybe, in Georgia, they are.) The author of this article called approx. 20 owners of the types of businesses which can begin reopening today. Even though the governor has given them the green light to proceed, not a single one of the owners the reporter spoke with planned to reopen - most of them not for a long time. One owner stated that she expected to get lots of blowback from her loyal customers over her decision to remain shut down, but in fact the messaging she had received was uniformly positive. So I give some credit to the American people. I also conclude that the yahoos marching on state capitals to re-open the economy are anything but a mass movement at this point.
The Gridlock protesters in Michigan will be out again April 30. The Boy served a few car loads of them at the coffee drive thru waving guns and demanding that he open the inside of the shop for them. When he told them that was a great way to get him and his staff fired, they called him a "pussy boy." He told them to have a nice day and drive safely. Protesters were also peeing in people's yards. A friend and her neighbors are setting up leg traps in their hedge where protesters were piddling last time. The cars were blocking the entrances to Sparrow Hospital downtown.
Yesterday, they were parked in front of the governor's home all day with bullhorns. Some guy drags a semi-sized Trump Unity sign around and had the road all blocked up with that.
The GOP legislators are egging them on.
They are worse than the virus, honestly. No vaccine for stupid. Maybe they'll all inject themselves with bleach, UV rays, and hydrochloroquine, as Trump suggested yesterday.
The first time I heard Marsha Blackburn's (no relation at all) name, she was a Tennessee state senator being interviewed on radio from the site of a demonstration at the (Republican) governor's office through the window (or maybe door) of which a rock had been thrown. She was asked if she approved, and she said no but the protestors were on the side of right. Then the nasty reporter played the tape of her saying the day before that someone should throw a rock through the window. She has built upon that leadership and now she is one of 100 senators -- the one who stands with James Inhofe on the side of anti-science, anti-government, anti-common sense and general dizziness.
If I had to join a cult, I would prefer the Jim Jones Cult over the Trump cult. At least Koolaid is sweet and flavorful. Trump wants his lemmings to drink bleach.
The Boy is very good at deflecting dimwits and getting them to move on, and he has a good sense of the ridiculous. My dad was like that. Worked at Sears and used to come home and regale us with stories about nutty customers.
However, it also appears to be billionaire v billionaire with this. The Kochs have not signed on to the movement being fomented behind the scenes by other libertarian and right - wing groups.
Anne - right. There was a NY Times opinion piece (a little overwrought, but consider the paper) a day or two ago about the right wing backers of the protesters. I'll dig up the URL when I get a chance.
Anne and all, here is the NYTimes article I had seen recently about the funding behind the protesters. I'd summarize it as "friends of the Kochs". The Kochs are not bogeymen for me as they are for many progressives. The author seems to be a professional (or amateur) tracker of Koch-related activities.
I don't want to get into all that's wrong with the Koch brothers; anyway, there's only one brother now, isn't there?
The protests here in Michigan don't look orchestrated by big money. They look like Tea Party rallies--quite a mix of people and interests, and you can see them disagreeing on their FB page about whether people should turn these events into partisan political rallies.
There is a large contingent of Trump supporters who may be getting $$ to show up.
But about half are people who:
A) Are bored or stir crazy who want to blow off steam.
B) Second Amendment supporters who want to open-carry to show they are concerned the health emergency will lead to taking their guns.
C) People whose small businesses are going under and want to show they can resume operating responsibly.
D) Rural residents who believe that they are under wraps unnecessarily because their county rates.of infection are low. There is always a racial subtext to this: why do rural whites have to stay home just to save blacks in Detroit?
Back to the subject of what Mass will look like post-Covid, we just got an email from the archdiocese outlining what looks like a "soft" reopening. The governor is reportedly going to partially reopen some venues starting May 4. One of those affected will be churches. The dispensation from the Sunday obligation will remain in effect. Gatherings are limited to sacred liturgy, so no social activities. Seating should be no closer than every other pew, with at least 6 feet between parties. Hymnals and missalettes should not be used (I'm interpreting that as no congregational singing, either). No collection baskets passed back and forth. Pews and doors should be sanitized after Mass. Communion lines should be single file, six feet between people, host only, in the hand.No sign of peace. Pastors may consider using an online signup service for attending Mass, or inviting families to come alphabetically.
I suspect that if churches do this at the present time there will be increased spreading of the virus, and we will have to go back into lockdown within a month.
All the statistics that I am seeing say that we have entered a plateau of new cases, etc. but we have not entered into a decline of new cases.
Churches are really an ideal place to spread the viruses.
I think we should continue to develop virtual liturgies, e.g. just add a choir by having the choir members spread out over the church.
I enjoy the well done national Masses such as that from Notre Dame. Essentially about a dozen priests there form the congregation. No reason why we can't have a dozen choir members form the congregation.
I can picture maybe a "soft" opening happening, with daily Mass happening before the weekend celebrations do. Typically in the past there was plenty of distance at daily Mass, would people come in sufficient numbers to break the distancing requirements?
ReplyDeleteAnother possibility, in good weather, might be outdoor Masses, where there is plenty of room to spread out.
It sounds tacky and awkward, but would it be possible to distribute Communion with the clergy or EMHCs wearing medical gloves? Speaking as an EMHC, that would take some practice. And it would help if the hosts were thicker and thus easier to pick up.
I really hope the distancing doesn't go on too long (but long enough!) because we Catholics have a hard time being welcoming under the best of circumstances. Treating one another like lepers could all to easily become a habit.
We are NOT treating others like lepers, and that idea is what is driving the re-open crazies. We are trying to protect others in case we are asymptomatic.
DeleteGloves are a way to.show.love.and concern for others. It's not "tacky."
Katherine, I grew up in a summer resort town. The church was quite small, but fine from Labor Day to Memorial Day weekend. There was an outdoor grotto with an altar etc for the large summer crowds. In the mountains of Southern California it never rains in the summer, so no awning or other coverings were needed. I much preferred the summer outdoor mass in the forest to the winter masses in the church.
Delete"Tickets might be needed to deter gate-crashers."
ReplyDeleteIf it turns out people get immunity from surviving the virus, let them come to Mass and ask them to distribute to those who still need to isolate.
I don't think he mentions people spewing germs while singing. If the virus kills music at our parish, it will be a blessing in disguise.
That's the nice part about having a choir loft; we are only spewing germs into our mics. Or we could have some instrumental music. Our new organ is sitting in lonely neglect at present.
DeleteI would be willing to wear a mask to Mass.
Anything that requires strict obedience is doomed. Back when we did the whole enchilada Easter Vigil -- starting with a bonfire behind Trinity Center, proceeding into the Center (English) and Fatima Hall (Spanish for the Liturgy of the Word, processing to the baptismal fount and finally into church two hours after the kickoff -- four ushers were detailed to keep people out of church until he Mass got there. The doors were locked, and there were ropes around the whole area to keep people out in addition to the ushers. But at least once every year some authorized person had to get into church for a music stand or a candle lighter or some other damn fool thing, and it would get physical trying to stop the women "waiting for the Mass" who would charge the door to get in behind him. The women (and their henpecked husbands) who hovered for the big moment had been told -- in English and Spanish -- that the Mass had begun on the other side of the campus. But they knew better, dammit. That's why we do the Easter Vigil entirely in the church now.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, who will keep the kiddies under control? And who will help the lame, the halt and the blind who have to come with minders now?
So if Reese thinks he needs "strict obedience," fuggetabouddit.
I don't think there are enough priests to say six times as many Masses to take care of everybody.
Tom, I'm truly sorry that your parish powers that be caved to the Vigil cheaters. Couldn't they just have been let inside and left to stew in the pitch dark (maybe with the A/C off) while all the liturgical business proceeded elsewhere?
DeleteMaybe not, Katherine. This choir thought it was doing the right things, but it didn’t work. Maybe because people project their voices when singing and the tiny droplets spread farther
ReplyDeletehttps://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/covid-19/churches-could-be-deadliest-places-covid-19-pandemic
Our parish has "celebrated" Mass on Youtube for the last four Sundays. We watch it on our lap tops with one of us having the audio on. I applaud the effort, BUT...
ReplyDeleteI am not always a fan of the musical choices and the choir hogging the sound waves, but music makes a difference, especially when we have a hymn that everyone can sing (the winner here is "This My Song" sung to Sibelius's Finlandia), which the parish has been singing pretty regularly since the Iraq War! still going on, of course!). But not enough of those! Anyway, music helps no matter how good or bad....
But what I really miss is the halt and the lame, the children and besieged parents, people who dress for church and those who don't, multi-racial, multi-gendered, multi-confused who make up the congregation, even the "comfort" dog left beside the old confessional while his patient goes up to Communion. That you don't get on Youtube!
Addendum. misplaced modifier
Deletestill going on, of course!). But not enough of those,ie., songs, not wars)!
Yeah, the experience just isn't the same without people around to muck it up in new and interesting ways.
DeletePeggy - right on! The multi-confused are my faves!
DeleteDid any of you see this article by Cathleen Kaveny, "After Coronavirus, How Will We Learn to Un-quarantine?"
ReplyDeleteShe makes the point that some us will get all too comfortable distancing. I can certainly see that tendency in myself.
After months of being in outer space, re-entry can be tricky.
Now that I am deprived of human touch, I realize how much I miss it. Not only the contact with female dance partners but even just the handshakes with other guys. Thank the Lord my neighbor got a nice Standard Poodle and I get to rassle with the dog now and then. Returning to normal behaviour won't be like flipping a switch but physical isolation is no fun.
DeleteStanley, "standard poodles", one of our neighbors used to have one, named Augie Doggie. Very nice friendly dog, loved kids. But had a habit of carrying off other people's stuff. Periodically the neighbor would have to go around and return people's items to them.
DeleteI'll keep an eye on her, Katherine. Thanks for the heads up.
DeleteI don't think standard poodles are more larcenous than other breeds (and dogs are a lot less larcenous than humans!) Just was a funny quirk of this dog. Pets help us get through difficult times, even if they are other people's.
DeleteDidn’t think people would like Reese’s ideas. But given the realities, it seems his observations are on target. So it maybe it will be YouTube on Sunday for a long time.
ReplyDeleteA Mass without touching won't offend everybody. One of my deacon pals told the group the other day, "You Italians, who I think of as Petri dishes, are suffering now,, but we Germans call this 'home.'" And, of course, there are those who prefer their priest ad orientem so they don't have to look at any human faces (just rumps) as they contemplate. This could be a big win for the reform-of-the-reformers.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I realize I am not a touchy-feely person, but this lamenting of the demise of skin-on-skin touch at the Mass is too much. There is nothing in the rubrics of the Mass that requires us to glom onto people, or that proscribes the host from being handled with extra care during times of widespread sickness. Being wary of mixing up our spit and hand germs at a time like this hardly constitutes a sin of pride.
ReplyDeleteWhy not argue that those demanding a return to normal are the prideful ones: My faith is so strong that I believe I am immune if I swig from a common cup, poke my fingers in the holy water, and let Father give me the Host after only the most perfunctory and symbolic handwashings. I'm so holy that I will hold a missal that has never been disinfected, and hug and kiss people I barely know at the Peace.
The reality of old age is such that there will come a time when most of us will be confined at home, and probably should no longer be going to Mass. This is just an opportunity to prepare for life at that time.
ReplyDeleteHere in Lake County with our lake effect snows there are frequently Sundays in which it is just better not to go to Mass at the parish. I always tuned in the Notre Dame Mass which is broadcast live on Catholic TV. I feel very at home there since I used to worship there during summer school, and of course they pray for me as an ND alumni.
During the rest of the year I often went to a parish about 20 minutes away because it had a better liturgy. No reason why they should not be streaming the Mass on Sundays just as Notre Dame does.
We have an Orthodox parish in a nearby county which streams all their liturgies. If a parish as small as Orthodox parishes are (most of ours that size we have closed) can do it, any of our parishes can.
Off topic, but I can't believe Trump said this! A new level of wacky, to suggest injecting disinfectant as a cure, earning himself the title of "Tide pod president".
ReplyDeleteWhat will it take for his supporters to see what he really is? I very often find myself deep in despair with worry about what kind of country this will be when our young grandchildren are grown up. The oldest of the six will have his 6th birthday next week. With a zoom party so his friends and family can wish him happy birthday). The November election will be the deciding factor and I am not hopeful.
DeleteMaybe if The Don agreed to let them try it out on him...
DeleteReese usually is extremely insightful, but I am sorry to say, I don't think this thought experiment is one of his better efforts.
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly, I come at this from a conservative perspective. I find all too much nanny-state (nanny-church) rule-dictating in his predictions.
All of us are adults, and we're called to use our best judgment. Most of us (although certainly not all!) are smart enough to practice social distancing ourselves, and even to risk superficial rudeness by telling the thoughtless person who has entered our greatly-expanded personal space to back off and get at least six feet away. The people will figure it out without the need for detailed top-down direction. Certainly, pastors and bishops (just like governors and presidents) can reinforce the message.
Part of the people's figuring it out will be determining whether or not to show up. If they feel it's too risky, they won't come. So be it. Nobody should blame them. It's their judgment, and we should assume it's perfectly valid. The mass-attendance requirement should remain suspended, and parishes should continue to livestream or broadcast pre-recorded masses for many months after the churches re-open, for the sake of those whose judgment is that they should still avoid large public gatherings.
Our church packed people in like sardines - in 1993. These days, our mass attendance is about half of what it was back then. Some of our Sunday masses have been practicing the equivalent of social distancing for years. Besides, family members have been living in the same household for months together. I doubt any of them are practicing social distancing within the home, so there should be no practical issue with them sitting next to one another in a pew.
Jim: "All of us are adults, and we're called to use our best judgment. Most of us (although certainly not all!) are smart enough to practice social distancing ourselves..."
DeleteI think from experience that this has nothing to do with adulthood and a lot to do with where you come from, especially your ethnic roots. I am your basic Irish-German mongrel, and I am definitely and permanently a social-distancer, even in the best of times. Experience tells me that some regard this as standoffish and unfriendly. Their adult behavior is not only kissy-feely, it's when standing or sitting in church our bodies should touch! Much has been made of Italy's infection rate: hugging and kissing--proximity is the rule of good relations. Our parish does not have many, if any, Italians, but it has Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Mexicans....who are warm and friendly and show it by proximity, like crowding into the pew. I have gotten use to this, but I think there is little chance of serious social distancing in the months to come, so I'm hoping that Gov. Cuomo's announcement that maybe 20 percent of us have had the virus and that herd immunity will save us in the long term--maybe 2022?
And if you don't believe me read Edward Hall:
Delete"Throughout his career, Hall introduced a number of new concepts, including proxemics, monochronictime, polychronic time, and high-context and low-context cultures. In his second book, The Hidden Dimension, he describes the culturally specific temporal and spatial dimensions that surround each of us, such as the physical distances people maintain in different contexts."
I saw a brief article somewhere within the last day or so about the Georgia governor's plan to reopen the state, the first stage of which begins, I believe, today. (Tattoo parlors are essential? I guess I need to respect cultural differences - maybe, in Georgia, they are.) The author of this article called approx. 20 owners of the types of businesses which can begin reopening today. Even though the governor has given them the green light to proceed, not a single one of the owners the reporter spoke with planned to reopen - most of them not for a long time. One owner stated that she expected to get lots of blowback from her loyal customers over her decision to remain shut down, but in fact the messaging she had received was uniformly positive. So I give some credit to the American people. I also conclude that the yahoos marching on state capitals to re-open the economy are anything but a mass movement at this point.
ReplyDeleteThe Gridlock protesters in Michigan will be out again April 30. The Boy served a few car loads of them at the coffee drive thru waving guns and demanding that he open the inside of the shop for them. When he told them that was a great way to get him and his staff fired, they called him a "pussy boy." He told them to have a nice day and drive safely. Protesters were also peeing in people's yards. A friend and her neighbors are setting up leg traps in their hedge where protesters were piddling last time. The cars were blocking the entrances to Sparrow Hospital downtown.
DeleteYesterday, they were parked in front of the governor's home all day with bullhorns. Some guy drags a semi-sized Trump Unity sign around and had the road all blocked up with that.
The GOP legislators are egging them on.
They are worse than the virus, honestly. No vaccine for stupid. Maybe they'll all inject themselves with bleach, UV rays, and hydrochloroquine, as Trump suggested yesterday.
"The GOP legislators are egging them on."
DeleteThe first time I heard Marsha Blackburn's (no relation at all) name, she was a Tennessee state senator being interviewed on radio from the site of a demonstration at the (Republican) governor's office through the window (or maybe door) of which a rock had been thrown. She was asked if she approved, and she said no but the protestors were on the side of right. Then the nasty reporter played the tape of her saying the day before that someone should throw a rock through the window. She has built upon that leadership and now she is one of 100 senators -- the one who stands with James Inhofe on the side of anti-science, anti-government, anti-common sense and general dizziness.
"When he told them that was a great way to get him and his staff fired, they called him a "pussy boy.""
DeleteNice. How can you not vote for a candidate who espouses that?
If I had to join a cult, I would prefer the Jim Jones Cult over the Trump cult. At least Koolaid is sweet and flavorful. Trump wants his lemmings to drink bleach.
DeleteJean, I'm sorry your son had to put up with that! He showed more courtesy and self restraint than I could have.
DeleteThe Boy is very good at deflecting dimwits and getting them to move on, and he has a good sense of the ridiculous. My dad was like that. Worked at Sears and used to come home and regale us with stories about nutty customers.
DeleteJim, apparently the protests are not spontaneous but have right- wing organizations behind them . Trying to find sources that don't have a paywall.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/18/coronavirus-americans-protest-stay-at-home
However, it also appears to be billionaire v billionaire with this. The Kochs have not signed on to the movement being fomented behind the scenes by other libertarian and right - wing groups.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/22/koch-coronavirus-shutdown-protests-202320
Anne - right. There was a NY Times opinion piece (a little overwrought, but consider the paper) a day or two ago about the right wing backers of the protesters. I'll dig up the URL when I get a chance.
DeleteI heard there was DeVos family money behind some of it.
DeleteHere's a source which gives a bunch of info on funding.
DeleteAnne and all, here is the NYTimes article I had seen recently about the funding behind the protesters. I'd summarize it as "friends of the Kochs". The Kochs are not bogeymen for me as they are for many progressives. The author seems to be a professional (or amateur) tracker of Koch-related activities.
Deletehttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/opinion/coronavirus-protests-astroturf.html
I don't want to get into all that's wrong with the Koch brothers; anyway, there's only one brother now, isn't there?
DeleteThe protests here in Michigan don't look orchestrated by big money. They look like Tea Party rallies--quite a mix of people and interests, and you can see them disagreeing on their FB page about whether people should turn these events into partisan political rallies.
There is a large contingent of Trump supporters who may be getting $$ to show up.
But about half are people who:
A) Are bored or stir crazy who want to blow off steam.
B) Second Amendment supporters who want to open-carry to show they are concerned the health emergency will lead to taking their guns.
C) People whose small businesses are going under and want to show they can resume operating responsibly.
D) Rural residents who believe that they are under wraps unnecessarily because their county rates.of infection are low. There is always a racial subtext to this: why do rural whites have to stay home just to save blacks in Detroit?
I apologize for the absence of grammatical parallelism in my list.
DeleteJim which positions endorsed by the Kochs do you agree with? Do you support the Tea Party? Or the Libertarian platform?
ReplyDeleteBack to the subject of what Mass will look like post-Covid, we just got an email from the archdiocese outlining what looks like a "soft" reopening. The governor is reportedly going to partially reopen some venues starting May 4. One of those affected will be churches. The dispensation from the Sunday obligation will remain in effect. Gatherings are limited to sacred liturgy, so no social activities. Seating should be no closer than every other pew, with at least 6 feet between parties. Hymnals and missalettes should not be used (I'm interpreting that as no congregational singing, either). No collection baskets passed back and forth. Pews and doors should be sanitized after Mass. Communion lines should be single file, six feet between people, host only, in the hand.No sign of peace. Pastors may consider using an online signup service for attending Mass, or inviting families to come alphabetically.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that if churches do this at the present time there will be increased spreading of the virus, and we will have to go back into lockdown within a month.
DeleteAll the statistics that I am seeing say that we have entered a plateau of new cases, etc. but we have not entered into a decline of new cases.
Churches are really an ideal place to spread the viruses.
I think we should continue to develop virtual liturgies, e.g. just add a choir by having the choir members spread out over the church.
I enjoy the well done national Masses such as that from Notre Dame. Essentially about a dozen priests there form the congregation. No reason why we can't have a dozen choir members form the congregation.