Wednesday, January 15, 2020

The Debate 1/14/20

I can't sit still when the debates are on...the media types drive me nuts and the candidates never have enough time to answer the questions. So I was happy to find in my in-box the following from a close friend who managed to sit through the whole thing plus the commentariat.



[Friend]: watched the debate, watched all the post-debate CNN coverage until 1:30 a.m., read most of the stuff in WaPo today and NYT -- and, my God, are observers all over the place! 

My crucial issue, like most people's, is "electibility," who can beat Trump, as Bernie says "the most dangerous president in our history."  I think a lot of the commentators are subordinating that to who can win in Iowa, even though the evidence indicates that who can beat Trump is exactly what's on the minds of Iowa Democrats as well.  I have become a big Klobuchar fan.  I think she could beat Trump and also be a good president. Several post-debate commentators thought K did poorly last night.  I don't see it at all, but I've lost a lot of my confidence about judging these things. 

Since becoming a daily reader of the WaPo online, especially the Opinion pieces, I have also become a fan of Rubin and share her negative views of Warren and Sanders. But I can't share her evaluation of Biden.  He was okay and had a few good moments and certainly overshadows the others on foreign policy, as she stresses.  But he continues to be less than articulate and forceful.  He stumbles on phrases and corrects himself, quickly enough I grant -- and maybe this is all due not to age but to his early history of stuttering, as some people have suggested -- but it doesn't make for a good adversary to Trump.  There's still some fudging about his Iraq war stances (see WaPo Fact-Checker), which Bernie keeps harping on; but Pete B (and also Karen Tumulty) is right, the international issues have changed, and I would certainly prefer Biden or Mayor Pete or Sen. K to handle issues like cyber warfare, China, nuclear proliferation and destabilizing weaponry, and climate change over Sanders and Warren.  However, the first order of business is how a nominee can successfully confront President Bluster and Bullshit about all these matters.  I also disagree with Rubin, or half disagree with her, about Steyer.  Yes, billionaires shouldn't be able to buy a place on the debate stage (what about Bloomberg?); but he was actually pretty convincing about his own bona fides and his ability to take on the Trump on the president's one success, the economy.

At the moment, I'm feeling the best we can do is Biden with Klobuchar as VP.  But a lot of pundits are still looking at Warren, maybe with Cory Booker.  If I were an Iowan, I'd caucus for Klobuchar and, if necessary, move over to Biden.

One odd thing: Although the pundits were occupationally disappointed in the lack of fireworks, except for the Sanders-Warren flap (and the related question of Abbey Phillips's professionalism), and similarly disappointed in the failure of the debate to "change the numbers" or "move the dial," I actually thought it was a good show for Democrats in general.  Everyone's rhetoric has improved, and we shouldn't sneeze at two hours of sharp eloquence mainly not directed at one another but at the failures of Trump and the GOP and the state of the nation.     

12 comments:

  1. To repeat my comment on the previous post:

    I watched the whole debate last night; usually tune out after a hour. I thought everyone did well but no one especially better or worse. I doubt if anyone gets a bounce or loses momentum out of this.

    In this debate as usual I was annoyed by the moderators; they play far to much a role both with their questions and their attempts to limit the candidate's expression.

    I would love to see the Sanders vs. Trump debates to see if there are any moderators that will be able to exert any control over the two of them.

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  2. I subscribe to the NYT likely only for a year at a cheap rate, partly to see what their election coverage is like.

    I found their comments were all over the place. If the candidates did rather well this time around, the pundits did very poorly.

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  3. Good commentary from your friend! Beats most of what I've seen on the news sites. I'm tired of people wanting fireworks. We've had three years and counting of fireworks of one sort and another.

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  4. Thanks.for sharing that.

    Imo,the problem with the debates is that most of the commentators are focusing on the performance of the moment instead of experience and credentials.

    Of the four front-runners, Buttigieg does not have the experience to confront global issues (climate change, Middle East conflicts) and has no clout in Congress; Biden used to be a good and relentless talker, but he seems to have lost his oomph, and I don't really know what he wants to do other than support Obamacare; Bernie is quick and experienced, and he has clearly identified the nation's ills, but his hear attack is worrisome; Warren has been a good senator, but is mired in the minutiae of her plans; Klobuchar is energetic but poised, has a record of getting things done, and understands compromise.

    So, yah, Klobuchar for me.


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    1. I would go for Klobuchar, if she turns out to be the candidate. Warren keeps responding to attempts to bait her, like the Pocahontas thing, and to start a fight with Bernie about a comment he made that he supposedly doesn't remember. She needs to stay focused. I think Trump would get her distracted on stupid stuff.

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    2. I don't watch the debates either, I read about them, and research what they say about the various issues. Right now, Klobuchar would be my choice. But since getting Trump out of office is THE most important thing, a Biden-Klobuchar ticket might be the best combination. The more I read about Sanders, the more disenchanted I become with him, but if he is nominated, I will vote for him. In fact, I will vote for whoever is nominated. #NeverTrump

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  5. As I may have said back when the field was 21 bodies wide (without Bloomberg), there was no point to paying attention because most of those people wouldn't be in it when the circus gets to Florida. That was right. Whatever I might have felt about Tulsi Gabbard or the motivational guru is in the lint trap today. But I am bemused by this kind of thinking:


    "At the moment, I'm feeling the best we can do is Biden with Klobuchar as VP." As I read it, the correspondent really prefers Klobuchar. So why make it "Biden and" instead of "Klobuchar and"? Electability? That is automatic with the nomination. Without the nomination, no one is electible.

    And no one has told me yet what's wrong with Cory Booker.

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    1. "...no one has told me yet what's wrong with Cory Booker." Nothing, except he's not in the race any more. He would make a good vice presidential candidate.

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    2. I know he is out.I just never knew why. I also don't know how there can be so many good vice presidential candidates and so few good presidential candidates in the same field, since the main job of the first would be to replace the latter.

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  6. Electability?

    That word has often been used to exclude candidates because they are not mainstream or establishment Democrats or Republicans. That is because most Democrats and Republicans are going to vote for the Democrat or the Republican regardless of who they are.

    However by those criteria, Trump was not electable. His Republican and conservative credentials on many issues are questionable. Yet he was elected president and may well be re-elected president.

    How did that happen? Trump was able to mobilize a committed core of Republicans on a series of issues that also appealed to people who were not very committed to the Republican party. For example working class people who voted for Obama.

    In an election of Trump vs. Sanders, Republicans are going to vote for Trump and Democrats are going vote for Sanders even if they would prefer most other Democrats to Sanders.

    Sanders like Trump is able to mobilize with enthusiasm a core group of Democrats that will also bring in other people. Those include the young who often sit out elections and the working class people who voted for Obama, and Trump.

    The Democrats are not going to get out the vote by running a bland mainstream candidate with the argument that we need to get rid of Trump. They did succeed in electing Obama on a middle of the road unity platform (not Red states or Blue states...) who was personally exciting (hope oratory). I don't see that yet in any of the Democrats. With regard to Cory; we have already had the excitement of electing a Black president. Klobuchar could be the excitement of a woman president but she needs something more but different from Obama's hope beyond Red and Blue states.

    In regard to electability the first woman president could be elected in large part because she would be the first woman president; I think Obama was elected in large part because he became the first Black president. However you have to have some charisma other than being the first woman. Warren actually may have that because she appeals to the same groups as Sanders. When I went to the Democratic caucus here in Lake County the enthusiasm was with the young women for Warren. If she wins the Democratic nomination most of the Bernie people will work for her as hard as they would be Bernie. It is not going to be the case of just showing up to vote for Clinton or Biden.

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    1. The Democrats do have something going for them this time that they didn't before; they are opposing a perfectly awful candidate, and now they know just how perfectly awful he is. No one is going to be able to say, "How bad can it be? He can pick good people to actually run things, and we don't care if he just plays golf the whole time." Any hope that he would be an avatar president is gone. Having someone that one is passionately against can be as motivating as having some one is passionately for.

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  7. Speaking of the Democratic presidential candidates:

    https://cruxnow.com/church-in-the-usa/2020/01/in-south-bend-buttigiegs-relationship-with-notre-dame-is-complex/

    In South Bend, Buttigieg’s relationship with Notre Dame is complex

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