From the linked article:
"Tlaib offered no apologies for her remark, which dominated talk on Capitol Hill one day after Democrats took power in the House and drew criticism from party leaders who said it was not productive. It gave Trump an opening, and he seized the opportunity to portray Democrats as unfairly persecuting him."
"...The unexpected attention on impeachment was a vivid and early example of the divide between the no-holds-barred style of some newly elected Democrats and the more restrained sensibility of party leaders on questions of policy and tactics in the new Congress — a split that is certain to test Pelosi repeatedly."
"The leader’s strategy in the 2018 midterms was to tamp down impeachment talk, knowing that any mention could energize Trump’s core voters. Looking ahead to the 2020 elections, Pelosi and others are concerned that focusing on impeachment too aggressively will galvanize the president’s base in districts that Democrats need to hold to keep their majority."
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi finessed the minefield, saying,
' "We shouldn’t be impeaching for a political reason, and we shouldn’t avoid impeachment for a political reason...”, and then "..“I’m not in the censorship business,” Pelosi told MSNBC’s Joy Reid in an interview. “I don’t like that language; I wouldn’t use that language . . . But I don’t think it’s anything worse than what the president has said.” She described the desire to impeach Trump as “legitimate” but noted that the effort would need Republican support to succeed."
' "We shouldn’t be impeaching for a political reason, and we shouldn’t avoid impeachment for a political reason...”, and then "..“I’m not in the censorship business,” Pelosi told MSNBC’s Joy Reid in an interview. “I don’t like that language; I wouldn’t use that language . . . But I don’t think it’s anything worse than what the president has said.” She described the desire to impeach Trump as “legitimate” but noted that the effort would need Republican support to succeed."
Pelosi rightly named the inflammatory word as "impeachment", rather than the cuss word which got everybody's attention. Has civility of discourse suffered? Of course. But we need to stay focused.
With only two years to go and a Repub Senate, I'd say wait for election. Pence will be just as bad policy wise though he's just mean and not pathological. Meanwhile, Tlaib should learn from her colleague Ocasio. Outspoken, combative and radical, but positive and energetic. Can't believe someone tried to smear her by showing her delightful dance video from college.
ReplyDeleteAgree witb you about waiting for the election. Pence is more polite, but would be just as bad policy wise.
DeleteMy mom used to say that some people "draw lightning". Some of these new people in Congress seem like that.
I am sure the Orange Poltroon (Thank you, Stanley) has heard the vulgar word and the offending word before. I am pretty sure the ladies and gentlemen of the press know both words, and have been known to use them. I am not sure the verbiage was worth a whole evening on cable news.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, in another part of the field, the O.P. announced that he could declare an emergency and have the military build his m***********g wall. Rule by emergency decree. That was part of the Weimar Constitution until there was no more Weimar Constitution. He also is prepared to leave closed nine areas of government -- all of which affect all or at lease many of the people -- for "months or even years." He has also muttered earlier about simply sending Congress home. All of these are thoughts that flow smoothly from the mouths of the likes of Erdogan, Orban and Duterte and his the O.P,'s new soulmate in Brazil, but they don't bode well for our system of government. I just mention it because the words of a congressional first-termer got so much attention, and the threats of an autocrat get so little.
Proroguing (a word I predict we will hear a lot later this year) Congress would not have been possible while both houses were in control of the Republicans. The O.P. could hardly send Addison Mitchell McConnell home when McConnell was laboring as hard as a Pence to give the O.P. all he wanted. But now that the Socialists control one house ... it becomes conceivable. It would be popular. People would be calling the president (how does one do that?) and telling him to keep it up. Things ain't going to get better before they get worse.
"proroguing"...thanks for teaching me a new word, Tom. The definition which seems to fit best is "to discontinue a session of a legislative body without dissolving it". Hope it doesn't come to that.
DeleteMy personal theory is that, thanks to the Mueller and similar investigations, he will be facing criminal charges if/when he becomes a private citizen. In that case the White House is the safest place on the planet for him, and he has a strong incentive to stay there as long as he can. If Pelosi is right that a failed impeachment would activate his base, then maybe the thing to do is not impeach. The 2018 elections proved that he has squandered whatever political capital and goodwill propelled him into office. I would say, let's hold on (with white knuckles) through 2020.
ReplyDeleteI think Pelosi has good instincts. I am a little dismayed at people who have been in office less than a full week being pretty loud and proud. The proof is in the pudding, let's see some hard work.
DeleteKatherine, I agree. I wonder why so few have noticed the similarity between the root-and-branch reformers on the Democratic Left and the Tea Partiers. And, let's see, the Tea Party group has pushed out two Speakers (Boenher and Ryan) and is drawing a bead on their new MINORITY leader. And, outside of that, they have accomplished ....? Oh, wait! They can also take credit for at least one of the government shutdowns. But they ran on cutting spending (hahaha) and balancing the budget (hohoho).
DeleteJim P wrote, "The 2018 elections proved that he has squandered whatever political capital and goodwill propelled him into office." To me, that seems overly optimistic. What do the rest of you think?
ReplyDeleteHe may have squandered political capital and goodwill, but he still has his koolaid-drinking base who live in an alternative reality and think he can do no wrong. And he still has the utterly cynical branch of his party who don't care what cruel or moronic thing he says or does, as long as they keep getting most of what they want. Think tax cuts, deregulation, and erosion of worker rights.
DeleteI think, as I indicated above, that he has normalized government by tantrum. If anyone else were in office, political scientists and historians would be on television every night to explain why Hamilton, Madison, Jay and even Ronald "Tear Down This Wall!" Reagan would be appalled at what he is doing to their work. But somehow the Orange Poltroon (love it, Stanley) undermines the country, and creates outrages at the border, which he calls an emergency, while we parse an Americanism uttered in a bar by a newbie member of Congress. That should not be normal.
DeleteOverly optimistic, I agree.
DeleteWhat evidence is there that the electorate will be smarter two years from now? Or that Trump, with a four-year track record of loudmouthing and grandstanding that has charmed and activated the 40-some percent of voters who constitute his base, will somehow be a weaker candidate? Forcible removal will only fire up his base more.
Trump has figured out how to make bad press work for him by labeling it it "witch hunt lies." You cannot argue with someone who refuses to work from a common set of facts or who lives in an alternate reality.
Trump runs a cult of personality. The only thing that would throw his followers into disarray would be if Trump became incapacitated--I mean more than he is now, like by a stroke or something. m
And it's a sin to pray for that.
So, I think we'll have to white-knuckle it through 2024--and beyond if he can get enough rogue congressional reps and military leaders to suspend the constitution because of some manufactured national emergency.
There might be hope of him being successfully primaried for 2020 by another Republican. I know, it's an outside chance. What might help that scenario is if he does something to screw up the economy. I don't wish for it, but silver linings and all that.
DeleteKatherine, I got my year-end report on my 401(k) yesterday. It tanked for the first time. I am so conservative, I made during the Great Recession. If there are a lot of reports like mine, and if people notice what the Rs' did to health insurance, their screw-ups of the economy may actually come to public attention.
DeleteTom, I'm almost scared to look at my 401k balance. It hasn't moved much lately because I'm very conservative, it's all in bond funds. If I've lost on that, it will make me nervous.
DeleteAbout what Jean said if Trump would succumb to a stroke or something; I'm convinced that some of his followers would declare him Servant of God and start lighting candles in front of his picture.
Glad you like the epithet, Tom. The man is an inspiration.
DeleteThere is another way to ease him out of office: the Pardon Bargain. "Mr. Pence, I will step down and let you become president, if you promise to pardon me for any criminal convictions." Personally, I think the country would be better off if that deal was struck, but the single precedent I know of, with Nixon and Ford, had a bad political outcome for the incumbent party. Is that a better outcome for the party - and the country - than leaving Trump in power for two more years (or, God forbid, Jean's six year scenario)? I think it is, but I don't know whether many Republicans would agree with me.
DeleteAlso, after Trump's personal lawyer/fixer turned on him, I don't know if Trump believes he can trust anyone else to keep their promises.
Delete"What evidence is there that the electorate will be smarter two years from now? "
DeleteI consider the election results from 2018 to be evidence. It's notable that Democrats did well in both Wisconsin and Michigan. I view that as a repudiation of the Trumpian GOP.
No one is going to beat Trump in a GOP primary on a platform of civil discourse, that's for sure. His bloviations are the primary appeal he has with his base. And Christians will go along with him as long as he's making the right noises about abortion and LGBT people.
DeleteIf the economy tanks, it will be interesting to see if his base buys his excuses--It's the Fed's fault! It's the election of all those House Democrats! It's Europeans not paying for NATO!--or if somebody can talk sense to them.
FWIW, my Obamacare premium went down for the first time ever, by about $20 a month. Not sure how that stacks up to what I will have to pay when I switch to Medicare in September. And these things swing wildly from state to state.
I have no 401K, just laddered CDs that turn over at six month intervals and then get flipped if we don't need the money. Rates are in the 3 percent range, might be at 4 for the seven year ones. Not great, but better than sharp stick in your eye, as we colorfully say out here in the cornfield.
Our biggest problem is trying to get my mom's house sold as the market weakens. Anybody trying to get it in a VA loan will have to wait for the shut down to end. Been out there since October, and is attractively priced, but no one seems to want the weird floor plan that Dad remuddled over the last 60 years. Paying utilities, taxes, and insurance on that has been fun.
Jean, one thing that might help you sell the house is a lease purchase agreement with someone trying to secure a VA or FmHA loan. We did that with the first house we owned in order to secure the one we wanted. The paperwork is notoriously slow with the federal-backed loans, but the terms are usually good.
DeleteI agree with Jean, as usual. I am especially nervous because from early reports, it seems the Dems have a good chance of shooting themselves in the foot again before the next election. Their infighting may wreck their effectiveness in Congress and also could lead to choosing another bad presidential candidate.
ReplyDeleteTrump's base is solid, and apparently they don't care that he lies,or care about what he says and does, even when it hurts them personally - if the stories I read in the lying mainstream media are accurate. As noted, it's a cult, and they will stick with their leader no matter what.
Jean, Medicare Part B (doctors, outpatient care etc) is $135/month in 2019 for couples with a joint income lower than $170K, which is most of us.
You should probably begin researching options now as you will also need Part D for prescriptions. If you are getting regular cancer meds, getting a good drug plan could be expensive. My husband does not have cancer, but he does have several expensive medications. His monthly Part D premium is up to $85/month. I have no regular meds, have taken the cheapest available Part D plan, and am paying $30/month.
Investing in a supplementary policy might be worth it (pays what Medicare doesn't of copays, deductibles etc). It has been for my husband, but so far not for me. However, if I drop it, I can't get it again at the same rate and not sure when lightening might strike as far as my so-far excellent health is concerned. You might want to look at a Medicare Advantage plan too. Doesn't work well for us, but does for others we know. It really depends on your personal situation. You will not be allowed to buy into Obamacare once you hit 65.
Selling a house in the dead of winter is never easy. Good luck to you.
To clarify - it's $135/person for couples with less than $170K joint income. Not $135/couple.
Delete"Trump's base is solid, and apparently they don't care that he lies,or care about what he says and does, even when it hurts them personally"
DeleteThis is what populism looks like, I think. People who are poor understand lying, intimidation, bluster - these are all survival tools for someone who isn't financially secure. Those of us with college degrees, professional careers and have managed to accumulate some wealth have the luxury of telling the truth, and being modest in our own demeanor and courteous with others.
If you want truthfulness, courtesy and personal modesty, you want Mitt Romney (if you're conservative), or Barack Obama (if you're liberal). Turns out, Romney was not at all what Trump's base wanted.
While I don't claim to know a lot about it, I believe Saul Alinsky wrote the handbook for how to mobilize Trump's base. I doubt Trump has read Alinsky (or much of anything else), but he has a sort of rat instinct for that sort of thing.
It's dismaying to me that conservatism has largely set aside a high regard for the Romneyesque personal qualities.
Unfortunately I know a bunch of people with at least some college who aren't poor who are in the Trump cult.
DeleteJust read a Facebook share by one of the aforementioned people which said, "God told Nehemiah to build a wall. Pelosi should read her Bible before she says what Jesus would do." You can be college educated and still have an invincible ignorance problem.
DeleteThanks. I pretty much have Medicare figured out. My chemo is a very old drug, available as a generic, and pretty cheap and effective. Commonly used to treat other incurable blood cancers and sickle cell.
Delete"People who are poor understand lying, intimidation, bluster - these are all survival tools for someone who isn't financially secure. Those of us with college degrees, professional careers and have managed to accumulate some wealth have the luxury of telling the truth, and being modest in our own demeanor and courteous with others."
ReplyDeleteJim, do you honestly believe this about poor people?