The next time any/all of the Suthun states want to secede, I will make a substantial financial donation to assist their departure. My Air Force time in the south taught me what a retrograde, disgusting form of society is endemic in most of those states.
Alabamians say,"You can't believe Alabama women ayat awl." You can only believe Christian judges. Obviously. But innyway, God wants Republicans in Congress.
They seemed oblivious of any good reasons why Black people might not want to vote for Moore. Do they not know he said he wanted to get rid of the 14th amendment, that he said the best era in the US was back when there was still slavery?
I'm sorry, I think it's an awful piece of film. The guy with the camera crew comes across as an incredibly condescending male appendage. I'm sure it was only his panel's native Southern courtesy that prevented them from sticking those cameras somewhere personal to him.
That video encapsulates the interpersonal dynamic that led to the election of Donald Trump. And it may well lead to the election of Roy Moore.
Here's a friendly bit of advice to Hillary Clinton (whose utterly-unspontaneous "basket of deplorables" riff may go down as one of the signal blunders in the history of American politics) should she consider answering Donald Trump's prayers by running again: if you want to bring potential voters around to your way of thinking, don't spend quite as much time lecturing them about what morons they are.
if you want to bring potential voters around to your way of thinking, don't spend quite as much time lecturing them about what morons they are.
I think this is the point of what she was saying .... there is no way to reach these people or to win their votes while still maintaining an ethical stance, because they appear to be racist and sexist and religiously jingoistic conspiracy theorists.
Yes, we needed more votes to beat Trump, but these people will never vote for a party that stands up for women, for racial minorities, for immigrants, for LGBT people, for poor people, etc.
But they may not agree that they are deplorable racists, sexists, etc. You may think you have a better gauge on their attitudes than they do; but if that is the case, is labeling them as "ists" or calling them dumb likely to open their eyes?
And Democrats don't need all of them to change their votes in order to win - relatively few of them shifting from the Republican to the Democratic column might have tipped the presidential election in the other direction. It's well-documented that there are millions of voters who voted for Obama who then voted for Trump (which would seem to complicate the racist narrative). Those switchers (let's call them independents) may well have swung the election to Trump.
People almost never change their minds. There may be people who could go either way, but the people in that video don't seem to be those kind of people.
When asked why Black people would vote for a Democrat, they said it was because they were "stupid". They are planning to vote for a man who has fond thoughts about the days of slavery and who wants to rescind the amendment to the constitution that allowed Black people to vote. They accused Obama of creating divisions between the races but they voted for a president who though there were some very nice people among the white supremacists of Charlottesville.
We're supposed to tiptoe around what all this means in hopes they will suddenly turn into Democrats?
Jim, "The guy with the camera crew" is identified as a REPUBLICAN strategist. Republicans often come across the way you say he did.
Sorry, but Christian, racist and rational is not a trifecta. One of those horses can't run with the others. There are rational racists, but they can't be Christian, and there are Christian racists but they can't be rational; any Christian who can read knows that.
Unlike Crystal, I don't have to go to the family to find people who square the circle anyway. I live among them.
Nice, daily Mass goer. Hasn't taken off his red cap since August, 2016. Last time I asked him if America was great again, Trump had just come back from his de-pantsing in Asia, and he replied that Trump "got those colored boys out of jail." Colored boys! Same guy, two weeks ago, opined the women were lying about Lauer, Rose, Moore and Franken, but the ones accusing Conyers were probably telling the truth. Wonder why?
"People almost never change their minds. There may be people who could go either way, but the people in that video don't seem to be those kind of people."
You may be right that 'we are who we are' in terms of our attitudes and outlooks (although, speaking from a Christian discipleship point of view, I also believe that the possibility of making transformational changes in our lives is always there; I believe in the possibility of conversion).
But when it comes to voting behavior, people do change. Since 2006, we've witnessed one wave election after another, alternating between Democrats and Republicans. 2018 could well be a Democratic wave. People are dissatisfied and impatient.
Now - you may also be right that the folks in the video won't change their spots. I suspect they're among the people who, since 2006, have been on the "throw the bums out!" bandwagon in successive elections. But now they are getting their own stable of Fox News and Steve Bannon Certified Candidates. It may be that Donald Trump and Roy Moore are the ones they've been waiting for. Which can be disconcerting, depressing, infuriating, take your pick.
I just don't want us to give up on them. They're our fellow Americans.
"Jim, "The guy with the camera crew" is identified as a REPUBLICAN strategist. Republicans often come across the way you say he did."
Yeah, I missed that, that he's a Republican, and that's interesting. You may know there is a civil war of epic proportions going on inside the GOP between Donald Trump and the more traditional Republicans. There is a lot of mutual despising going on between the Republican establishment and the Trump hostile-takeover crowd. I really think the party has, for all intents and purposes, cracked up. I may have shared here a bit earlier that I consider that today's situation is that there is a vestigial Republican Party, and a Donald Trump Party, and the two parties currently rule via a coalition of convenience. I guess the video in we're discussing doesn't contradict that hypothesis.
PS - I know this from experience ... trying to talk to my relatives who voted for Trump. It's like talking to people from another planet because there are no shared beliefs or facts.
It isn't just voters who can be deplorable. Here is David French, as conservative as the day is long, writing at the conservative National Review Online, on what an unfit candidate Roy Moore is - even before we learned he was an abuser.
David French was anti-Trump also during the campaign and elections. And he pays a price for speaking out, just as Sen. Jeffrey Flake of AZ - an uber conservative - has paid the price for his vocal opposition to Trump. He never jumped on the bandwagon after Trump was nominated, nor after he was elected (even though he voted the way Trump wanted). His career as a Senator is over, but he continues to speak out, as does David French. There are numerous "Republican" or "conservative" commentators who have refused to support trump - French, David Brooks, George Will, Jennifer Rubin, Michael Gerson among them. Will publicly resigned from the GOP because of Trump.
Unfortunately, while they may deserve Moore, he will be in a position to inflict harm on the entire country.
ReplyDeleteYes :(
ReplyDeleteThe next time any/all of the Suthun states want to secede, I will make a substantial financial donation to assist their departure. My Air Force time in the south taught me what a retrograde, disgusting form of society is endemic in most of those states.
ReplyDeleteAlabamians say,"You can't believe Alabama women ayat awl." You can only believe Christian judges. Obviously. But innyway, God wants Republicans in Congress.
ReplyDeleteThey seemed oblivious of any good reasons why Black people might not want to vote for Moore. Do they not know he said he wanted to get rid of the 14th amendment, that he said the best era in the US was back when there was still slavery?
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, I think it's an awful piece of film. The guy with the camera crew comes across as an incredibly condescending male appendage. I'm sure it was only his panel's native Southern courtesy that prevented them from sticking those cameras somewhere personal to him.
ReplyDeleteThat video encapsulates the interpersonal dynamic that led to the election of Donald Trump. And it may well lead to the election of Roy Moore.
Here's a friendly bit of advice to Hillary Clinton (whose utterly-unspontaneous "basket of deplorables" riff may go down as one of the signal blunders in the history of American politics) should she consider answering Donald Trump's prayers by running again: if you want to bring potential voters around to your way of thinking, don't spend quite as much time lecturing them about what morons they are.
if you want to bring potential voters around to your way of thinking, don't spend quite as much time lecturing them about what morons they are.
ReplyDeleteI think this is the point of what she was saying .... there is no way to reach these people or to win their votes while still maintaining an ethical stance, because they appear to be racist and sexist and religiously jingoistic conspiracy theorists.
Yes, we needed more votes to beat Trump, but these people will never vote for a party that stands up for women, for racial minorities, for immigrants, for LGBT people, for poor people, etc.
But they may not agree that they are deplorable racists, sexists, etc. You may think you have a better gauge on their attitudes than they do; but if that is the case, is labeling them as "ists" or calling them dumb likely to open their eyes?
DeleteAnd Democrats don't need all of them to change their votes in order to win - relatively few of them shifting from the Republican to the Democratic column might have tipped the presidential election in the other direction. It's well-documented that there are millions of voters who voted for Obama who then voted for Trump (which would seem to complicate the racist narrative). Those switchers (let's call them independents) may well have swung the election to Trump.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_geoffrey_skelley/just_how_many_obama_2012_trump_2016_voters_were_there
Jim,
DeletePeople almost never change their minds. There may be people who could go either way, but the people in that video don't seem to be those kind of people.
When asked why Black people would vote for a Democrat, they said it was because they were "stupid". They are planning to vote for a man who has fond thoughts about the days of slavery and who wants to rescind the amendment to the constitution that allowed Black people to vote. They accused Obama of creating divisions between the races but they voted for a president who though there were some very nice people among the white supremacists of Charlottesville.
We're supposed to tiptoe around what all this means in hopes they will suddenly turn into Democrats?
Jim, "The guy with the camera crew" is identified as a REPUBLICAN strategist. Republicans often come across the way you say he did.
DeleteSorry, but Christian, racist and rational is not a trifecta. One of those horses can't run with the others. There are rational racists, but they can't be Christian, and there are Christian racists but they can't be rational; any Christian who can read knows that.
Unlike Crystal, I don't have to go to the family to find people who square the circle anyway. I live among them.
Nice, daily Mass goer. Hasn't taken off his red cap since August, 2016. Last time I asked him if America was great again, Trump had just come back from his de-pantsing in Asia, and he replied that Trump "got those colored boys out of jail." Colored boys! Same guy, two weeks ago, opined the women were lying about Lauer, Rose, Moore and Franken, but the ones accusing Conyers were probably telling the truth. Wonder why?
"People almost never change their minds. There may be people who could go either way, but the people in that video don't seem to be those kind of people."
DeleteYou may be right that 'we are who we are' in terms of our attitudes and outlooks (although, speaking from a Christian discipleship point of view, I also believe that the possibility of making transformational changes in our lives is always there; I believe in the possibility of conversion).
But when it comes to voting behavior, people do change. Since 2006, we've witnessed one wave election after another, alternating between Democrats and Republicans. 2018 could well be a Democratic wave. People are dissatisfied and impatient.
Now - you may also be right that the folks in the video won't change their spots. I suspect they're among the people who, since 2006, have been on the "throw the bums out!" bandwagon in successive elections. But now they are getting their own stable of Fox News and Steve Bannon Certified Candidates. It may be that Donald Trump and Roy Moore are the ones they've been waiting for. Which can be disconcerting, depressing, infuriating, take your pick.
I just don't want us to give up on them. They're our fellow Americans.
"Jim, "The guy with the camera crew" is identified as a REPUBLICAN strategist. Republicans often come across the way you say he did."
DeleteYeah, I missed that, that he's a Republican, and that's interesting. You may know there is a civil war of epic proportions going on inside the GOP between Donald Trump and the more traditional Republicans. There is a lot of mutual despising going on between the Republican establishment and the Trump hostile-takeover crowd. I really think the party has, for all intents and purposes, cracked up. I may have shared here a bit earlier that I consider that today's situation is that there is a vestigial Republican Party, and a Donald Trump Party, and the two parties currently rule via a coalition of convenience. I guess the video in we're discussing doesn't contradict that hypothesis.
PS - I know this from experience ... trying to talk to my relatives who voted for Trump. It's like talking to people from another planet because there are no shared beliefs or facts.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't just voters who can be deplorable. Here is David French, as conservative as the day is long, writing at the conservative National Review Online, on what an unfit candidate Roy Moore is - even before we learned he was an abuser.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nationalreview.com/article/454542/roy-moore-election-conservative-case-against-him
David French was anti-Trump also during the campaign and elections. And he pays a price for speaking out, just as Sen. Jeffrey Flake of AZ - an uber conservative - has paid the price for his vocal opposition to Trump. He never jumped on the bandwagon after Trump was nominated, nor after he was elected (even though he voted the way Trump wanted). His career as a Senator is over, but he continues to speak out, as does David French. There are numerous "Republican" or "conservative" commentators who have refused to support trump - French, David Brooks, George Will, Jennifer Rubin, Michael Gerson among them. Will publicly resigned from the GOP because of Trump.
Deletehttp://www.nationalreview.com/article/441319/donald-trumps-alt-right-supporters-internet-abuse-must-end
Anne C - quite right about prominent conservative writers not supporting Trump. You can add Jonah Goldberg and Stephen Chapman to that list.
DeleteIt's good to know some conservatives re against Moore.
ReplyDeleteAnd today (Wednesday) we can say in one voice: Roll, Tide.
ReplyDelete