In the news: Mike Pence’s Marriage and the Beliefs That Keep Women from Power ...
Seventy days into the Trump Presidency, many of us find ourselves discussing the propriety of a married man eating a meal in the company of a woman who is not his wife. Vice-President Mike Pence—a hard-line evangelical who has repeatedly called himself “a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order”—refuses to dine extramaritally ....
As soon as the piece was published, ostentatious and divided reactions immediately flooded Twitter. Matt Walsh, a conservative Christian blogger, asked, “Seriously what’s the appropriate reason for a married person to go out for a meal alone with a member of the other sex (outside of family)?” Erick Erickson, also a conservative Christian blogger, replied, with apparent seriousness, “planning your spouse’s surprise party or funeral and that is it.” The jokes came quickly: “honey it’s not what you think- we were planning your surprise funeral,” one person wrote. Others were earnestly horrified. How could you rule out meals with a person of the opposite gender over the course of an entire career? That Pence was able to do so speaks to an incredible level of inequity in the workplace; no successful woman could ever abide by the same rule. How could you sex-segregate a thrice-daily activity and still engage in civic life? (One married man told Walsh that he used to plan church-choir practices with his married female colleague over dinners out at the local Chinese buffet.) And how, without occasionally going out for a sandwich, could a married man ever make or keep female friends? .....
More: How Pence's Dudely Dinners Hurt Women
I guess Pence either doesn't trust himself alone with a woman, or he thinks that women cannot be trusted if they are alone with him. This is a a common conservative view that sees all interaction between men and women as reducible to one question: "Do I want to boink that?". And in this particular case, it very well describes the antithesis of feminism .... women aren't people, they are what people (you know, men) use for sex, so every encounter of men with women revolves around women's 'usefulness'. Creepy.
The other side of this is also well illustrated by Pence - men who see women this way don't like women and they don't trust women. Pence has done more than his share politically to make life hard for women ...
- Pence in 1997: Working mothers stunt emotional growth of children
- Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signed a law this year that mandated funerals for fetuses
- Equal Pay Opponent Pence’s Indiana Has 10th Largest Gender Pay Gap Nationally
- Mike Pence Opposed Paid Leave Proposals While In Congress
- And of course ... Pence's war on Planned Parenthood
I saw a study once that showed that it was political/social conservatives who are the most obsessed with sex. I think the present leaders of our country .... the misogynistic Republican Congress, the repressed VP, and the pussy-grabbing President ... are good examples of that finding.
Friday, March 31, 2017
Mike Pence and women
In the news: Mike Pence’s Marriage and the Beliefs That Keep Women from Power ...
Seventy days into the Trump Presidency, many of us find ourselves discussing the propriety of a married man eating a meal in the company of a woman who is not his wife. Vice-President Mike Pence—a hard-line evangelical who has repeatedly called himself “a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican, in that order”—refuses to dine extramaritally ....
As soon as the piece was published, ostentatious and divided reactions immediately flooded Twitter. Matt Walsh, a conservative Christian blogger, asked, “Seriously what’s the appropriate reason for a married person to go out for a meal alone with a member of the other sex (outside of family)?” Erick Erickson, also a conservative Christian blogger, replied, with apparent seriousness, “planning your spouse’s surprise party or funeral and that is it.” The jokes came quickly: “honey it’s not what you think- we were planning your surprise funeral,” one person wrote. Others were earnestly horrified. How could you rule out meals with a person of the opposite gender over the course of an entire career? That Pence was able to do so speaks to an incredible level of inequity in the workplace; no successful woman could ever abide by the same rule. How could you sex-segregate a thrice-daily activity and still engage in civic life? (One married man told Walsh that he used to plan church-choir practices with his married female colleague over dinners out at the local Chinese buffet.) And how, without occasionally going out for a sandwich, could a married man ever make or keep female friends? .....
More: How Pence's Dudely Dinners Hurt Women
I guess Pence either doesn't trust himself alone with a woman, or he thinks that women cannot be trusted if they are alone with him. This is a a common conservative view that sees all interaction between men and women as reducible to one question: "Do I want to boink that?". And in this particular case, it very well describes the antithesis of feminism .... women aren't people, they are what people (you know, men) use for sex, so every encounter of men with women revolves around women's 'usefulness'. Creepy.
The other side of this is also well illustrated by Pence - men who see women this way don't like women and they don't trust women. Pence has done more than his share politically to make life hard for women ...
- Pence in 1997: Working mothers stunt emotional growth of children
- Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signed a law this year that mandated funerals for fetuses
- Equal Pay Opponent Pence’s Indiana Has 10th Largest Gender Pay Gap Nationally
- Mike Pence Opposed Paid Leave Proposals While In Congress
- And of course ... Pence's war on Planned Parenthood
I saw a study once that showed that it was political/social conservatives who are the most obsessed with sex. I think the present leaders of our country .... the misogynistic Republican Congress, the repressed VP, and the pussy-grabbing President ... are good examples of that finding.
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I'm guessin' he don't dance none neither.
ReplyDeleteI guess I feel that context is everything...I play 10 point pitch with three guys over lunch break every day. I have eaten lunch out with a group of coworkers in which I was the only woman (not turning it down if the boss is buying!)However, I have never gone out solo with a coworker. My husband was a purchasing agent for much of his professional life. Sometimes a female sales rep would take him out for lunch or dinner. I had no problem with that. Sometimes she would invite me as well. However he didn't go out with women coworkers that he saw every day solo, either. I think one way to figure out the propriety of a situation is to ask oneself the question, "How would I feel if the situation were reversed?"
ReplyDeleteHowever, having said that, I'm no fan of Pence. A lot of people have said they hope Trump gets impeached. I don't, because I don't think Pence is any better, he's just smoother. He might actually get something done, and that would probably be a bad thing, since he is pretty hard-core Tea Party. What I hope is that Trump's administration stays so busy putting out low-level fires that he starts with his Tweets, and scandals involving his appointees, that they don't have time to effectively do anything else. And pray that nothing catastrophic happens, because they can't deal with it (in that case the "deep state" might actually be a blessing in disguise).
ReplyDeleteHe is an overdramatising poseur. Just be a professional, Pence, if you can. It's called being all business.
ReplyDeleteI have had a number of married guy friends over the years. One was a co-worker and he and I would go to movies together sometimes. One of my old boyfriends and I stayed friends for years after we both married other people, still went to moves, etc.
ReplyDeleteBut Pence won't even do business lunches or work meetings alone with women. That's extreme. What is he afraid of?
Another way to look at this is that Pence, unlike most men, understands that his life is MUCH better when he is constantly supervised by his wife. :-)
DeleteRaber and I don't do things much with other couples. Come to think of it, we really have our own set of friends, different genders, different marital statuses. Doesn't bother me at all. Neither of us is the straying or jealous type.
DeleteThat's sounds healthy to me :) When I was married we didn't have any couple friends or really many individual friends at all (my sister lived away then). Probably didn't help the marriage any.
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DeleteI can't see couple foursomes helping anybody's marriage. Someone inevitably doesn't like someone else. Or one person ends up holding forth. Or someone just sits there trying to look pleasant and you know they were dragged there by their spouse and would rather be folding laundry. It's kinda toxic.
DeleteThis issue very much depends upon the situation. The culture in which the guy grew up, the various educational and corporate cultures he has experienced, the current corporate structure. Also the spouses background in all these areas. For example if either had a father whose marriage had been destroyed by a business romantic, it could affect things a lot. Also what the spouse knows about the other woman, etc.
ReplyDeleteWhat people seem to object to is Pence’s use of his religious values to shut down any possibility. Just another cultural war battle of people trying to impose their religious values, or lack thereof, on one another.
It was mentioned in the article that some Evangelicals adopt Billy Graham's idea of not being alone with women, but there's nothing actually Christian about that. And one has to wonder what the fear is - a woman might fear being assaulted if she was alone with a man, but I don't understand what a man would have to be afraid of.
ReplyDelete"...I don't understand what a man would have to be afraid of." Being accused of something. It has happened. Everybody who does anything in a parish now goes through "safe environments training". It's a protection for all concerned, maximum transparency, especially when minor children or youth are involved, but really with anyone.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I hadn't thought of that. I suppose if you go into politics that is one of the things you have to worry about.
ReplyDeleteHoni soit qui mal y pense. (Pun intended.) That being said, the who and why determine the appropriateness of lunch for two.
ReplyDelete