Here is a link for the prayer vigil for peace, led by Pope Leo XIV at the Vatican this morning:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ef4aM7nfNBc
Actually it wasn't morning in Rome, it was 7:00 in the evening there. We caught it at 11:00 am, CST. It lasted about an hour, and consisted of a rosary, and hymns, with some reflections from Scripture and writings of saints. It was quite lovely; and appropriately, peaceful. Hopefully it will do some good.
We need more than prayers for peace from Pope Leo. Pope Francis held an even larger vigil at the beginning of the Obama administration when the US was going after Syria. If I remember correctly, it helped to get Obama to back down.
ReplyDeleteTrump is now directly attacking Leo as soft on crime and international relations. I was not impressed with Leo's response: "I am not afraid of Trump." I don't think Leo has found his voice yet.
First, Leo was giving the press very sophisticated commentary on the American political scene in his off the cuff remarks to reporters. Then he backed off on that. Then he went for very general statements that could not be interpreted as critical of America or Trump. He has gotten stronger and more pointed in those statements as Trump has escalated his endeavors around the world, but still no specific references to Trump.
Leo has a tough job. He has to be a world political leader for peace, a world religious leader of Catholics and Christianity, but also as an American he has to lead the American people and American Catholics.
Unlike Pope Francis nobody can say that Leo does not understand America. Trump is not politics as usual. He is a real challenge to the American political system, and to the values embedded in it. I think Leo has to face that as a spiritual and religious issue. Frankly Leo has get the majority of Catholics to reject Trump and those Republicans allied with Trump. Leo needs get Catholics and Evangelicals to reject religious nationalism.
The good news from Europe is that Hungarians have rejected right wing nationalism by a 2/3rds vote in favor of a centralist party. That gives them the ability to roll back sixteen years of establishing right wing maintaining policies and fear of offending right-wing politicians. Maybe we can do the same here.
Jack - I largely agree with your commentary. I do think it belongs to the American bishops, more than Leo, to find their voice and articulate a Catholic alternative to Trump. They should be shielding Leo from the wrath of Trump, who is flailing (and whose presidency may be sinking) as his policies, from tariffs to deportations to war with Iran all are becoming manifest to the world as the bad ideas they are.
DeleteLeo is a monarch, complete with diplomatic corps, and that role may lead him to speak diplomatically rather than forcefully. I'm never sure whether the Holy See having this temporal role is good or bad for the church.
Jim, I agree with you that it is more the responsibility of American bishops to articulate Trump's dysfunction. Though Leo has done pretty good job of that, he is more the 30,000 feet view.
DeleteI think it is good for the church that the Vatican is an independent entity, with diplomatic corps, but without the other power trappings of a real country. The Swiss Guards are not going to be invading anyone.
Just when you think Trump cannot go any lower, he attacks the pope and posts a picture of himself as Jesus. I have heard some Catholics claiming Pope Leo is preaching pacifism. I don't that is true at all.
ReplyDeleteYes - just when you think he can’t go any lower, he goes lower. What will it take for MAGA Catholics from bishops on down to abandon this man? To realize that he is not a Christian? That he does not follow Christ? His “spiritual advisor” - the charlatan in Florida - on Easter compared Trump to Jesus ( Anne White?) - false accused, “ suffering” like Jesus did.
Delete"I have heard some Catholics claiming Pope Leo is preaching pacifism."
DeleteI think it's likely that Trump personally doesn't undestand Catholic teaching on how international relations should be conducted; on how that teaching might be applied to dealing with rogue states like Iran. And if he did understand the Catholic teaching, I expect he'd reject it immediately and, probably, in toto.
The first point is: the Catholic church is very much internationalist. If there is a rogue regime like Iran fostering terrorist activities across a region or around the world, the church would want to vest existing institutions devoted to peace, like the United Nations, with responsibility for policing the region and preventing the attacks. Second, the church would want to utilize diplomacy rather than warfare to rein in the rogue state; any warfare initiatives would be subject to the (very restrictive) Catholic just war criteria. Third, if bad actors like the Iranian president or ayatollah are to be brought to justice, it would be via international courts.
I don't think Trump would accept any of this. He is a foe of existing international structures such as the UN and international courts (although he seems open to building out his own alternative international structures), and he rejects anything that constrains his ability to act.
I'd add: Trump is far from alone in these views among US conservatives. His views are not quite the same as the views of Dick Cheney during the Iraq war (Cheney was more of a Constitutionalist and supported the post-war transatlantic alliances; Trump's support for the Constitution and the alliances are inconsistent at best), but both would reject any constraints on deploying US military power. And a big chunk of conservative voters are with Trump on these matters.
"...just when you think he can’t go any lower, he goes lower." Yes!
DeleteAnne, I hope you got along okay with your surgery.
Jim - " And a big chunk of conservative voters are with Trump on these matters." Jim, you follow conservative thought far more than I do. I've thrown in the towel on reading "conservative" opinion, which bears little resemblance to what was called "conservative" in decades past. So - why are these people "with Trump on these matters"? Why do they support his rejection of NATO, of the US Constitution, the rule of law, christian teaching? They have praised Orban to the hilt, wanting to model the US after his authoritarian, "illiberal democracy". Why?
Delete"Why do they support his rejection of NATO, of the US Constitution, the rule of law, christian teaching? "
DeleteI think the answer varies a bit from item to item in your question:
Many conservatives think our NATO allies have shirked their military spending and vigilence for decades, leaving the defense of their continent to the US.
As for the Constitution and the rule of law, I think it turns out that Americans as a whole are far less invested in both than we wish they would be. (I fear we'd see the same from the left if such a thing as a progressive strongman came along.)
Regarding the Christian religion: some sectors of Christianity don't have the Catholic church's well-developed social teachings; and even among Catholics themselves, the social teachings may not be well-understood. And to the extent the teachings are understood, many of them are rejected. Most Americans seem to choose political affiliation over religious affiliation these days.
Sorry, but these explanations don’t fly. Do they not realize that the existence of NATO has been the single most important factor in preventing another war that engulfs Europe and, in the case of WWII especially, spreads to other regions of the world? Do they not realize that Putin has been thrilled by Trumps threats to destroy NATO. Why did the conservatives that pre- trump led the opposition tomPutin suddenly claim him as a hero?
DeleteThese MAGA folk wrap themselves in the flag, often literally, and have events like Constitution Week and bumper stickers and hand out mini- books of the Constitution etc as though they care about the Constitution. But they don’t. Not really. They are also fine with trumps lawbreaking and corruption. And endless lying. One MAGA conservative commentator who was recently interviewed on someone’s show or podcast said she knew trump lies and that he is thoroughly corrupt, busily enriching himself and his family through corruption as president, but she “ doesn’t care”. Why don’t they care? What are they getting from his presidency other than satisfaction that he is throwing out people of different color than themselves and different religious beliefs - he has given their hate traction. And of course, taking away the civil rights for minorities, women, and the LGBQT community, rights that were finally achieved after decades of work. They especially hate transgender people, who are a minuscule number and just want to be left alone to live their lives. Why the fear and hate towards a tiny sub- population of citizens who don’t hurt anybody.
You don’t have to be Catholic to understand what Jesus taught - other Christians supposedly read the gospels also.
I suspect strongly that most are actually motivated by racism. They flocked to trump in 2016 when he made racism and hate acceptable. He said aloud what many thought.
For my part, I’ve come to believe that the US was founded not under God but on racism, exploitation and genocide. The term is settler/colonial state and, no matter what the cosmetics, or how much time passes, these strains seem to persist and persist with violence. When MLK was killed, I thought we were in a bad place but would get better. How wrong I was. The world is tired of our bombing and bullying them to make them better. At an event recently, the band ended by asking everyone to stand while they sang “Proud to be an American” and the main singer said twice, “If you don’t like the country, you can leave it”. Out of a hundred attendees, only myself and another guy I know didn’t stand. I’m finished with patriotic rubbish while civilians and their children are being carpet bombed. No one confronted us and I was somewhat disappointed. I was on hair-trigger. We need to keep some things, abandon others and move onto something new or collapse.. The country was founded by rich white men for the benefit of rich white men. For the concentration of wealth snd power.
DeleteThank you, Katherine. It was a rough week as my husband went to the ER the day after Easter with another serious UTI and sepsis. Thank goodness the anti-biotics turned stopped the progression of the sepsis. He had planned to go with me on Friday for my surgery, Thank goodness he couldn't as I was there for 14 hours mostly just waiting. Our friends came from Maine to help, so on Friday one drove me to the hospital in Baltimore at 5 am and one waited at home for my husband's discharge on Friday. The surgery went well I guess and I have not had anyl pain. I have to wait though for the pathology report to be sure that the margins are clean and the lymph nodes don't show any signs of cancer.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to hear that the pain isn't bad. I know from experience that waiting for pathology results is stressful. Will continue praying that those will be favorable.
DeleteI had missed that this was happening. Anne, I'll pray as well.
DeleteI was pleased to find out that Victor Orban had lost the election in Hungary by a sizeable margin. Maybe people are getting disillusioned of authoriarian-adjacent "strong men". I have to give Orban credit that he conceded the election and congratulated the winner. What a concept!
ReplyDeleteTrump's attack on Pope Leo has been met with backlash according to the NYT:
ReplyDeleteGiorgia Meloni, Italy’s prime minister, called President Trump’s criticism of Pope Leo XIV “unacceptable,” in a statement on Monday.
“I find President Trump’s words regarding the Holy Father to be unacceptable,” Meloni said. She added that it was “right and normal that he should call for peace and condemn all forms of war.”
Meloni has cultivated strong ties to Trump but the U.S. war with Iran has turned the relationship something of a political liability for her.
President Trump faced a groundswell of criticism from Christians across the political spectrum on Monday for his social-media posts attacking Pope Leo XIV and depicting himself as a Jesus-like figure.
Pushback was swift and forceful, coming from top leaders of the American Catholic Church as well as some from Mr. Trump’s supporters. By late morning on Monday, the Jesus image was deleted from the president’s social-media account.
Archbishop Paul S. Coakley, the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, issued a highly unusual statement to defend the pontiff late Sunday night.
“I am disheartened that the president chose to write such disparaging words about the Holy Father,” he said. “Pope Leo is not his rival; nor is the pope a politician. He is the Vicar of Christ who speaks from the truth of the Gospel and for the care of souls.”
Several bishops across the political spectrum followed
Bishop Robert Barron, a prominent conservative voice who serves on Mr. Trump’s Religious Liberty Commission, called on the president to apologize.
Mr. Trump’s comments were “entirely inappropriate and disrespectful,” he said on social media. “It is the Pope’s prerogative to articulate Catholic doctrine and the principles that govern the moral life,”
But Pope Leo’s soft-spoken style and return to more traditional elements of Catholic life have endeared him to many conservatives.
Sunday’s outburst was “astounding,” said Father Robert Sirico, president of the Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty, a policy group that endorses free-market economics. He said it reminded him of when the prominent atheist Christopher Hitchens attacked Mother Teresa.
Both men seemed “unable to grasp” the “moral horizon from which the church speaks, thus making any reasonable exchange impossible,” Father Sirico said.
It seems that Leo's style has come across for many as just doing his job as Pope rather than of being a politician.
DeleteJack - we can only hope so!
DeleteNational Catholic Reporter has an even longer list of negative reactions to Trump's criticism of Leo
ReplyDeletehttps://www.ncronline.org/news/backlash-grows-religious-and-political-leaders-criticize-trumps-comments-pope-leo-xiv
Interesting background summary by AP about trump and Leo.
ReplyDeletehttps://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-pope-leo-what-they-said-c9a721a132f1941eaebc139e1213937d
Yes, that's an interesting piece.
DeleteI think it would be good for the two of them to meet and talk.
I'm not comfortable in a role as Trump's defender. But I think it's possible to understand his recent actions and statements this way:
ReplyDelete* He's genuinely committed to peace.
* He considers Iran a genuine obstacle to peace in the Middle East. If that is indeed what he thinks, I can only say - I agree with him.
* He thinks he can achieve peace through warfare, by defeating the enemy who is an obstacle to peace. If so, he's far from the first national leader who thinks the path to peace is by winning a war
* His apocalyptic threats to Iran were meant to coerce them to the negotiating table, and to get the peace terms he wants.
If these are true - and I do think they're plausible - then Trump probably is frustrated because he thinks of himself as doing what Leo would wish, and instead of getting thanks and ego-stroking, he gets lambasted instead.
Jim, for a bright guy you seem to miss a lot because of your preference for conservative opinion writers.
DeleteI think I read exactly the same rationalization online by a pro- trump commentator. It seems hopelessly naive. Actually, a better word is deluded. Iran is no greater threat to peace than Israel (which may be the worst threat to mid- east peace of any country - they just don’t threaten us because they need us), Saudi Arabia (who also sponsors terrorists), iraq( again), China who threatens Taiwan regularly, Russia, of course, whom trump works regularly to appease, and a few others.
The rhetoric was disgusting - indefensible.
He has learned NOTHING from history because he’s the most ignorant president in history, far more concerned about branding everything in sight with his name and godawful taste and spending tens of millions flying to his golf courses every single weekend than he cares about governing. About actually studying policy options created by experienced, qualified advisors. Viet Nam? Iraq?Afghanistan? No lessons learned. This is really more about oil than peace. Just as Venezuela was about oil and not drugs. Kuwait was about oil too - keeping their oil out of Saddam Hussein’s hands. Bush made up an excuse to send troops there but once Kuwait was secured (its oil) he pulled our military back. Trump has changed his story on Iran so many times you get whiplash. But it’s most likely Israel pushed him and he thought he could walk in and out like Venezuela. He thought that because he doesn’t know history, or anything about mid- east culture, and Rubio had fired almost every mid- east expert in the State Dept who knew the history, culture and languages. I spent 12 years of my eclectic tic freelance career working for a client whose own client was Saudi Arabia. I learned a whole lot about mid- east history, and culture then, and especially about the pivotal role that oil has always played in both the global economy and global wars. Another important reason to go to renewable energy. I highly recommend a book called The Prize by Daniel Yergin if you really want to start to understand the role of oil in all America’s wars of the last 100+ years.
Obama got a nuclear weapons agreement without threatening mass murder. It took a lot of work and a lot of time by skilled diplomats. It was working until trump tore it up because his ego needs cause him to hate Obama (and Biden) so much that he would destroy a working agreement. So he sends two real estate developers to negotiate (what an insult in countries in that part of the world) instead of actual diplomats. The he sends his clueless VP who gives up in less than 24 hours. All this while trump is sitting in Miami with the top US Diplomat, Rubio, watching a disgusting wrestling match.
This guy wants credit as a peacemaker but does nothing. He wants trophies and admiration even though he’s busily trashing our country’s freedoms, the global economy, and yes, the fragile equilibrium that has stopped a world war for decades. He doesn’t like peace - he likes power. He loves having the most powerful milItary in the world at his disposal to play games with. He renamed the Dept of Defense to Dept of War because he loves power, not peace. Iran was not an imminent threat to us.
Does JD, that pathetic example of a Catholic Christian, really think that killing thousands ( or threats to kill millions) of people doesn’t fall under the category of morality? How dare he tell the pope to stay in his lane and just discuss “morality” - which apparently may be limited to transgender issues in the evil minds of MAGA world.
Sorry Jim. I’m grumpy today. Last week was a challenge with getting an ambulance to take my husband to the hospital with sepsis on Monday, and my surgery on Friday. Because I wasn’t able to be with him at discharge I wasn’t able to be sure all of his stuff was packed up and we lost a critical piece of his medical equipment - didn’t come home with him in the ambulance EC while I was still in surgery. I’ve spent the last two days trying to estimate our taxes to figure out how much to send in with our extension request. So I’m grumpy. I didn’t mean to take it out on you. Even though I disagree with you often, especially in this matter, I see you as an exemplary Catholic Christian , unlike JD (and me) But I no longer present myself as a “ good” Catholic unlike JD. He’s a total hypocrite and gives Catholicism a bad name. I do try to be a good Christian but fail frequently. Trump isn’t a good Christian nor is JD or most of the other Catholic members of his administration. All of us - and the whole world - would be better off if we paid closer attention to Leo. Interesting that the Iranians chided trump for his disrespect of Jesus in his use of that horrible image depicting himself “saving” someone.
DeleteMea culpa.
I think that trump totally misjudged the situation, assuming it would be easy. Now he knows it isn’t- it’s not Venezuela ( or Cuba) but Israel is still pushing. trump wants it over so he can declare victory even though he won’t get what he wants. He does want to maintain MAGA control of Congress in order not to be impeached. He said it himself, he has to stay in power to avoid prison. If he is impeached and removed from office if the Dems control after Nov then he has to get Vance to pardon him. I’m guessing that having to be pardoned by JD of all people after being forced from office would be humiliating and damage his needy little bully ego to a huge degree. So he wants peace with Iran for his own sake, tge great peacemaker, and doesn’t really know how to get there without morally reprehensible actions. He will cave because he saw that even his base was not thrilled with what he threatened in his Easter blasphemous rant, so he’s going to have to tell Israel that they are on their own after the American “ victory”.
DeleteI think Trump has lost the plot. In his first term he at least had some people around who would steer him away from his worst impulses. There is no one like that in his second term, he got rid of everyone who wasn't a sycophant. And now we're seeing how his impulses play out in real time. If he wants peace (I haven't seen any proof that he actually does), he doesn't have a clue how to get there and wouldn't listen to anyone who might advise him.
DeleteI think Trump wants out of this war and is looking for an exit door. His own base is quite isolationist; cracks in his coalition already are appearing. He'll grab the first negotiated settlement that allows him to plausibly claim victory.
DeleteFwiw, I think this is what the stock market thinks, too.
Katherine, it’s been clear for a long time that trump does not govern - how much of the Iran stuff has been left to Hegseth to plan I don’t know, but he’s also just cosplaying at being a smart “warrior” in between firing black and women officers - most recently the highest level military chaplain, who - surprise, surprise - is African American ( a Baptist). Trump has never been willing to read briefing papers. He spends his time in DC during the week watching Fox etc, and planning his remake of DC to honor himself. EVERY weekend he flies to Florida to golf. In the summer he helicopters to’NJ. His golf has cost hundreds of millions of taxpayer money in only a year. He owns another golf course about 45 minutes drive outside of DC and goes there frequently in good weather. He’s planning to destroy a public golf course in DC a couple of miles from the WH because it isn’t classy enough for him. Even less classy now because they are dumping d’écrus from the destroyed East Wing there. But it’s affordable for normal DC residents. Can’t have that. I’m guessing that even his Virginia course is too far for him to duck out to play during the week. His staff is playing war with real bombs and guns, and treating it as a video game. Meanwhile innocent people die, including our own service men and women. Enormous destruction in Gaza and Iran and now in the emirates, etc. I believe he got Netanyahu to back off bombing Qatar because Kushner was there when he did, negotiating another billion $ deal for the family firms. Plus its tough to build Mar a Lago on the Med when bombs are falling. Got to look to the future of the family!. So trump is going to have to put a leash on Netanyahu (who is trying to avoid his own trial) in his ambitions ( with christian zionist Huckaby cheering him on) to take over more territory and wipe out Lebanon too.
DeleteTrump is far more interested in his “ legacy” and renaming things after himself and destroying DC bit by bit. Our friends who came from Maine to help us and lived in DC itself until a year ago spent a lot of time downtown while here. They said it’s heartbreaking - lots of empty storefronts, closed stores and restaurants - because of the military presence and ICE presence. In the downtown it’s close to a ghost town now in the retail sector. He’s destroyed the Kennedy Center, the pinnacle of DC’s music and theater venues. His face on giant photos on government building facades, just like they do in North Korea (who are also building their nuclear capabilities, but we haven’t bombed them yet). He’s been gutting the Smithsonian museums ( and national parks and monuments) of art and exhibits that illustrate America’s full history because he wants a sanitized version. Slavery? It was good for the slaves according to these racists - gave them useful skills. Massacres of the Native Americans by the European illegal immigrants of past eras? Stealing their land and giving it to white settlers ( like my Irish ancestors in Nebraska)? Spreading white Christian nationalism on federal agency websites and exhibits? All good - - don’t mention the bad stuff to ignorant tourists and school children. And now Vance is claiming that Pope Leo has his understanding of scripture and theology all wrong. But that’s ok. Vance will teach him.
Jim, I think you’re right about him grabbing any chance to back up, without declaring defeat. And I agree with you that this is what the stock market thinks - or is at least hoping for. As are we since all of our retirement and care expenses come from our retirement account, which was sinking like a stone for a while.
"Sorry Jim. I’m grumpy today."
DeleteNo need to apologize, Anne. Trying to understand, much less predict, Trump is not easy to come to a consensus on! Granted, he gives us more unfiltered material, via Truth Social, than any other president.
Btw, I think you're right that he values peace trophies more than peace itself. He also claims to value peace. There might be a compartment somewhere in his brain or heart where that's true. But he's complicated and inconsistent and seemingly unprincipled,. And a windsock when it comes to policy.
He’s not really hard to understand. He’s an extreme narcissist and so everything - peace prizes, FIFA trophies, the ballroom and gold gilt all over the WH , military parades on his birthday, and even war, etc are all about himself. He revels in celebrity, endless greed, and his joy at being the most powerful person in the world, with the power to destroy nations and send countless people to their deaths. He demands total loyalty to himself and believes that the military must obey his every whim, whether legal or illegal, moral or immoral. And he found an equally immoral and amoral Sec of war , and other high level advisors to carry out his every wish without their own consciences getting in the way.
DeleteObama won the Nobel Prize for Peace ( which I did think was absurd - he had just been elected) and it grates on trump. He hates, hates, hates Obama - a black man not only being elected President, but getting the most respected “ prize” in the world.
DeleteI have as much interest in the Nobel now as I have for the Oscars, Emmys and the Miss America Pageant. About as much respect as for those phony baloney prizes they’ve been handing to His Nibs.
DeleteAgree Stanley. I’m especially not impressed with the Peace prize’s validity anymore. Don’t know enough about science or other subjects to judge the quality of those choices.
DeleteI know I’m the only one here that this impacts personally. But it actually impacts every taxpayer—and as someone says in the article— having armed military in camo is not a “good look”. Especially not in the Capital of the United States. Unfortunately it is symbolic of the true nature of the man who so desperately craves the Nobel Peace prize. He loves power- and violence.
Deletehttps://apnews.com/article/national-guard-surge-washington-dc-trump-7db1c795056a51c9fdc2d9c7f4c2147c