Excellent NCR article on the institutional context of Prevost's ministry in Peru/
Prevost's Perun: Vatican II Laboratory of Church Renewal
The pastoral framework Prevost immersed himself in Chulucanas was up and running by the time he got there as a young Augustinian in 1985, but its roots can be clearly traced back to the 1962-65 Second Vatican Council and the Latin American bishops' assemblies that followed it.
In 1962, Pope John XXIII called on the church in the United States to send 10% of its clergy on mission to Latin America.
Though that figure was never realized, several religious congregations took that message in stride. The Midwest Province of the Augustinians was one of them; in 1963 the first U.S. Augustinians arrived in Peru and the prelature of Chulucanas was formed the following year.
In 1968, Latin American bishops met in Medellín, Colombia, to discuss implementing Vatican II, which had concluded three years prior. A key outcome of this meeting was the recommendation to promote the formation of ecclesial base communities — small, locally led Christian communities — as the "first and fundamental nucleus" of the church. The meeting said the formation of leaders for these communities, which could be clerics, religious or laypeople, should be a "priority concern for parish priests and bishops."
Nine years after the Medellín meeting, McNabb attended another assembly of Latin American bishops in Puebla, Mexico, which was opened by Pope John Paul II. McNabb recounts in his memoir how the pope referred to the ecclesial base communities that were being developed throughout the continent as "a special source of hope for the church in Latin America."
"To see a priest in jeans, in a polo shirt, with a cap on, that he would walk with and meet with the young people, it was very striking," he said. "He had a spirit of great openness toward young people."
Victor Chiroque, another parishioner, said that Prevost, like the other Augustinians in the prelature, was committed to the pastoral plan implemented by McNabb.
"All of the priests were very involved in the pastoral plan, and he was one of them," Chiroque said. "He was young, so he would go out — not just here in Chulucanas, but to all of the villages to visit, which at that time was not easy."
As pope, Leo said in his biography that McNabb "was in many ways a very prophetic bishop" for instituting a pastoral plan that envisioned a parish as "the experience of the church at the local level and the building of an authentic community where people get to know each other, help each other, and support each other."
"All the things we are hearing today with the talk about synodality, we were already doing in Chulucanas in the 1980s, moving forward, so it was all very natural for me," he said, referring to the term for creating a more listening and participatory church coined by Pope Francis.
This article helps us to understand that Leo like Francis came out of an institutional context after Vatican II which was very different from our institutional context.
ReplyDeleteLeo's religious order was responding to John XXIII call to send priests to Latin America. Organizing subcommunities, "base communities" within the too large parishes was an important element even though under the influence of communism it became too political. There was innovative local clerical leadership. Prevost was very comfortable with dressing down as a priest since that was the progressive style of the time among priests and religious.
Leo like Francis is likely to stick with his ministerial experience in Latin America when making decisions in Rome.
“ Prevost was very comfortable with dressing down as a priest since that was the progressive style of the time among priests and religious.”
DeleteWe traveled with the bishop in the DR to the more easily reachable villages in the mountains. He didn’t have to hike or ride a mule. Jeeps and pickups coukd handle the dirt roads. He owned a pickup. He was pastoral to the nth degree - not a “kiss my ring and call me Your Eminence” . Bishop. I felt that the church would be a lot better off if all bushops and priests were more like him. He exuded care for the people. After arriving in a village the bishop first held a community meeting for the villagers to speak with him about any and all concerns. There was no time limit and a couple of the meetings lasted for hours. The leader of our Maryland parish group was from Chile (a professor of Philosophy at Georgetown). He and his wife translated the conversations for us. When the “business” meeting finished the bishop said mass for the villagers. He wore plain, normal vestments. No silk, no lace, nothing fancier than the vestments the parish priest wore. Then there was a meal. I confess to having a hard time with the chicken stew ( they had sacrificed a couple of valuable chickens for the bishop's visit) looking at the chicken feet floating around in it. I could eat the liquid broth and vegetables and a couple of the tiny pieces of meat, but not the feet and some suspicious looking innards. I worried about offending so made sure I dumped the remains of my food into the garbage myself instead of letting one of our village hosts do it. I suppose you get used to it after a while.
Thanks, Jack. That is an interesting article. I'm glad Pope Leo has that experience of working in missionary territory. He learned to just plow in and do it without much in the way of resources.
ReplyDeleteI loved it that they used to call him "Father Robertito"! Also that he moved the 6:30 am Mass time up, because he barely had his eyes open at 6:00.
Delete“…. parish as "the experience of the church at the local level and the building of an authentic community where people get to know each other, help each other, and support each other."
ReplyDeleteThis was how the enormous parish in the DR operated. The remote villages had leaders who functioned both as religious leaders and “civic” leaders. They were trained by the pastor and the religious nuns from Spain. They were no longer called base communities but essentially followed that model. There was a big push to get teachers in the villages so that the government would build a school to at least 4th grade. They were actively trying to increase literacy and teach handwriting for signatures so that the villagers could vote in the elections.
"All the things we are hearing today with the talk about synodality, we were already doing in Chulucanas in the 1980s, moving forward, so it was all very natural for me," he said, referring to the term for creating a more listening and participatory church coined by Pope Francis.”
It's interesting that Fr. Prevost dressed in a manner to meet the people where they were at when he was in Peru, yet now that he is the Bishop of Rome, he's returned to some of the more 'exalted' practices of pre-Francis popes, such as living in the palace and summering in Castel Gandolfo. He may be one of those people who doesn't see clothing in terms of personal identity, but rather tries to present himself in whatever way is suitable for his audience. (I guess I'm one of those people, too.)
ReplyDeleteTo an extent, we all dress for the job that we're doing.
DeleteAbout the papal palace, since it is there, and they have to maintain it, and it's easier to provide security for it, why not live in it?.Last I heard, he was sharing it with some other clergy, since it is quite large. I don't know if they're fellow Augustinians, but religious are used to living in community.
Francis and Leo used/use clothing and choice of residence to send messages about their priorities. Francis’s message was very clear. I’m not really sure what the messages are from Leo. Is he trying to calm the anxieties of those who really want a church that emulates secular royalty instead of Jesus?, Francis’s message was more aligned with Jesus’s teachings than any previous pope. Is it church politics? Is Leo trying to walk a tightrope to “please” both the imperial church lovers and the “poor church for the poor” lovers? Francis sought to promote the messages of St Francis of Assisi to love the poor and adopt a life of simplicity. Most ( maybe all) his predecessors embraced the symbols of worldly wealth and power, of royalty. These symbols and messages are among the aspects of Catholicism that I personally came to find repellent because they are not Jesus- like. I had hoped that Leo would follow Francis’s example. Unfortunately he is not, but so far he’s at least saying good things that are in line with Francis’s teachings.
DeleteI don't think he's gone over to the dark side just because he doesn't do things the same way Francis did.
DeleteHe’s saying a lot of good things especially wrt the relationship of El Norte to the countries in the south. He’s criticized Israel but doesn’t give it the existential condemnation it deserves. Zionists have been able to weaponize the Holocaust, especially Catholic guilt. It functions like a Klingon cloaking device and still works amazingly well despite IDF soldiers displaying their racism and atrocities on social media. Maybe the Pope has to tread lightly but I don’t.
DeleteKatherine, I don’t think Leo has gone to the dark side, but I had hoped the message of the west’s overconsumption, and excessive materialism, and the messages about the moral desirability of a more simple lifestyle would be continued. He is saying the “ right” things though with his first exhortation, which apparently was already started by Francis. Leo may be getting the attention of the anti- Francis conservatives who tuned out everything Francis said because of his “ softness” on birth control, remarriage, and LGBTQ issues. Leo might also be trying to placate the conservatives by maintaining the imperial image they love so much. I’m not deciding yet if he’s going to be as good at articulating the environmental messages and preferential option for the poor messages as Francis was. But the conservatives didn’t accept those messages from Francis, even though they had self- righteously told dissenters from B16 and JPII that they were wrong to dissent from a pope. No cafeteria Catholics until they became cafeteria Catholics. They changed their tune lickety- split after Francis started saying things that didn’t align with their narrow interpretations.
DeletePope Leo has responded quickly to areas of global misery and injustice specifically and in real time. Whether he inspires Catholics to exert political pressure on secular leaders to change remains to be seen. Priests and bishops probably have more sway, but a lot of them are MAGA themselves or scared of the MAGAs.
ReplyDeleteHow and whether Leo takes up evangelization and revival among the faithful in industrialized nations that are becoming more secular remains to be seen.
Evangelicals continue to make inroads in once-reliably Catholic countries in Latin America. I was very surprised that Francis was not more focused on that. Will Leo be?
The Church has a lot of medieval trappings and traditions. Some of them (the camauro, papal tiaria, red shoes, papal apartments, for ex) have become flash points of division. I suppose every papal administration struggles with the messages their use and display sends. As a convert, I am not real plugged into that stuff.
I don't pay a whole lot of attention to papal trappings, either. None of them have worn a papal tiara since Paul VI got rid of his (I am remembering that he sold it and donated the proceeds to charity). It looked heavy enough to be a vertebra crusher anyway
DeleteI think the red shoes are passe now too . They made me think of the Wizard of Oz movie, " There's no place like home".
I thought Benedict put on the tiara, but, hell, if I was pope, I'd be awful tempted to at least try it on!
DeleteI recall Benedict wearing designer shoes. Weren't they red?
DeleteI can just tell you: at least when it comes to liturgical vestments, there are a lot of points of view out there. Me, I wear whatever you hand to me. But there are guys with vestments that cost magnitudes more than my synthetic-fibers stuff, and that kind of thing is *very* important to us. Maybe part of it is an unseemly attraction to luxury goods. But that's not all it is; it's their personal expression, too. I guess I'm saying: if Benedict really liked those shoes, he was willing to pay a lot for them.
I said, "...that kind of thing is *very* important to us." Oops, meant to say, "...that kind of thing is *very* important to *them*". Just speaking for myself, as long as it's the right color for the day, I don't care if it was hand-woven by silkworms with doctorates from Harvard, or if it was bought on the sale rack.
DeleteI sort of liked one of the tiaras stolen from the Louvre. It belonged to a queen in a corrupt monarchy. That’s really not the symbolism that should be associated with Jesus.
DeleteUnfortunately for me, I see the church’s pomp and wealth as legacies of empire dating back to Constantine. For hundreds of years the church was actually more powerful than kings, and just as rich or richer. Pretty corrupt too. As Richard Rohr has said, Christianity went from the catacombs to the cathedrals and palaces in 313, adopting the values of the world while giving the almost Marxist values of the early church ( especially see Acts) far less emphasis- the early church was a church of the poor, the outcasts, the “other”.
The church in Latin America has been losing members by the millions now for years. I too was surprised that Francis didn’t focus on this. He even shut off the Latin American bishops’ interest in ordaining married men, especially deacons, as priests. The evangelical groups send many ministers and their wives and families there, especially to the more remote areas that have few Catholic priests but lots of Catholics- as was true in the parish I visited. Their services reflect the culture more - lively music and prayer, not the subdued European liturgies of the RCC. The Catholic liturgies I saw there were also much different than SOP in America - reflecting the culture there more with the types of musical instruments and including dancing. The conservative Catholics here would have heart failure. They don’t like inculturation in liturgy. The priests in these areas are spread very, very thin. The pastor of the DR parish told me that the evangelicals also provide a lot of material support to the villagers - food, medicine etc that the Catholic priests can’t afford to do. The wives of the evangelical pastors act as second ministers for Bible studies etc. l
I guess most people like the symbols of pomp and wealth. I’Ve always been out of step with most people though. St Francis of Assisi has always been my favorite saint.
DeletePossibly the Vatican could take a page from the Dutch and Danish Royal families. They gave up much of their real estate and a lot of their art and jewels to the state to maintain or to liquidate. Some of those outside the immediate family were de-titled, given severance, and their kids told to think about careers in public relations. I think the royals now earn a salary for being figureheads. They're all still pretty rich, tho.
DeleteA friend from my Old English group in the Netherlands tells me that many monasteries and convent have been turned into really nice old folks homes. These things have to be preserved on the outside, but inside they've been modernized. She was on a committee to determine historicity and approve plans for a makeover of one bldg. She said they are very nice.
Yes, the Brits are really the last of the grandiose royals. I’m so heartbroken over trump’s nighttime stealth tear down without notice of the East Wing ( nobody can stop it now) that I’m hoping the horribly inappropriate and totally out of proportion new ballroom can be turned into a homeless shelter if we can ever get rid of him and his movement. I’m sure the historical architecture review folk will file a lawsuit but he’s rushing so hard to build it fast, fast, fast ( latest estimate is $300 million) that he’ll have a fait accompli before anything can be heard in a courtroom. He claims “ donors”,will pay for it— more opportunities to bribe his administration.
DeleteEven though Trump forbade taking pictures of the destruction of the east wing, they are all over the internet. I think that whole thing is backfiring. It is such a visual punch in the gut to see the disfigurement of a national monument and symbol like the White House. Yes I know , no one got killed, it is just a building, and doesn't equal the depredations of war. But it is seen as a giant middle finger to the sensibilities of those who care about their American heritage. From the same guy that brought us the sewage video.
DeleteOf course he is not paying for the Dollar Tree Versailles himself. Donors will write him checks, and he will stiff contractors right and left.
The East Wing is nothing compared to Trimp's tearing down due process, the federal workforce, checks and balances, and the economy.
DeleteHas anybody heard where they're dumping the construction site debris from the old structure? I have read Potomac Park, but I know nothing about the DC area. There are concerns about possible asbestos contamination.
Pretty sure Trump will try to claim ownership of the ballroom--it's his! he raised all private money for it!--and will try to rent it back to the govt as a holding of Trump Inc. If he can't hang onto it, it'll have to be maintained at taxpayer expense. Proximity to the White House and security considerations severely limits what it could be repurposed for.
My hope is that that thing will be so awful and the workmanship so shoddy that it will be one of many things that tarnishes Trumpublicans forever.
I think the destruction of the White House reverberates with people. It's a powerful symbol of what the MAGA movement is up to.
Delete"Even though Trump forbade taking pictures of the destruction of the east wing"
DeleteHis paranoia is approaching Putin level.
I don't get how the East Wing is a more "powerful symbol" than troops marching into Blue cities and ICE thugs dragging legal immigrants and citizens off to jail for "looking Hispanic." But if it gets the DAR and Junior League types riled up enough to help oust Trump, I'll be happy to fuel their outrage.
Delete"Has anybody heard where they're dumping the construction site debris from the old structure?"
DeleteThis is probably fake news, but I've read that Trump wants to sell pieces of debris for $500 for a "memento". Probably not real, but would be in character.
The debris is being taken to a scrap yard, Smith Industries, in DC. A reporter followed the trucks.
DeleteTrump did sell pieces of the suit he was wearing in his mugshot photo. So, yah, why not sell bricks from the East Wing: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/14/style/trump-mug-shot-suit-nfts.html
I am probably the only one in this group that experiences this as a personal loss. I love the beauty of this city, including the architecture. The WH and the Capitol building are the two most important buildings in DC and are symbols of our country known around the world. Trump incited the assault on the Capitol and is now trashing the WH. Potomac Park is a center of outdoor activities in the city. It is mostly grass - a golf course, fields where games are played, popular for picnics etc, . When I first lived in DC after college so many years ago my roommates and I went there one day to sit on a blanket, picnic and watch a polo match — something none of us had ever seen before. That perfect afternoon with friends while young and idealistic is still a lovely memory. It’s a beautiful park near the Jefferson Memorial and the Tidal Basin ( where the famous cherry trees bloom each year), right on the river. I can imagine the horror of the golfers there (public course - not a full course) watching dump trucks empty the east wing debris right next to them.
DeleteBut Jean is absolutely right about this - “ I don't get how the East Wing is a more "powerful symbol" than troops marching into Blue cities and ICE thugs dragging legal immigrants and citizens off to jail for "looking Hispanic." The WH is ( was) a symbol of the best of our country, but it is being destroyed, both literally and figuratively.
Our friend who was among the first to lose her job and career (who spent more than 25 years commuting to Africa on different USAID projects) was here for a couple of days, staying with us. They sold their house in DC and now live in Maine. They have been downtown this week and say it’s “dead”. The presence of the National Guard has apparently killed downtown restaurants and street life, and there are few tourists to be seen. We were in Georgetown a couple of weeks ago and it was as lively and busy as ever. There were no National Guards in view there, but lots of students and tourists. More people than normal actually. I’m wondering if the residents of the city have abandoned the occupied zones for the neighborhoods like Georgetown that don’t feel like they’ve been occupied by enemy forces. Lots of tourists do go to Georgetown but it is removed from the main tourist areas downtown. It seems the militarization of the city hasn’t reached that far away from the main tourist attractions. Our friend were genuinely shocked at how dead downtown is now. They lived and worked in the city, not in the suburbs.
Raber's hands-on carpentry training was in historic preservation. In the last 40 years I've been treated to numerous lectures about America's disregard for its architectural heritage and enthusiasm for "remuddling." He spent time in DC in the Navy. So, for him, the East Wing demolition is going to bring on heart attack #2, I fear. I am avoiding TV news where he has to see pictures of it.
DeleteWe were members of the National Trust for Historic Preservation for many years. Not sure what happened but I recently realized that we haven’t gotten mail from them for a very long time. I see that they still exist. I will have to find their website and start annual donations again. Because we were inveterate travelers and tourists, we took many road trips over the years - not just to foreign countries but here at home. We sought out historic homes and buildings, and knew about the non- profit efforts in England especially to preserve the historic homes, buildings and gardens. We wanted to support the similar efforts here. Most of the homes of the early Presidents ( (Mount Vernon, Monticello, Madison’s home, etc ) are run and maintained by private non- profits. It would have been better if the WH wasn’t government! It’s supposed to be the “people’s house” - owned by all of the citizens of the United States. As Jimmy Kimmel said ( I think it was Kimmel) “ Well, I guess we won’t give him his damage deposit back”.
DeleteIf we ever get rid of this nasty, petty, totally evil and corrupt narcissist who is now not only running the country according to his personal desires and enrichment, but is getting the whole world (except Putin) to kiss his feet, I hope that the ballroom will be torn down. On principle - to remove a reminder of this very dark period of our country - assuming that at some point we will return to the light. Unfortunately the odds are against that.
The extension is so huge it will totally dominate the site. Apparently trump plans to name it after himself.
There was a news story locally this week listing all the donors who had been at the WH for a thank you dinner. My favorite comment was from a woman who said - “Great - no taxpayer money. Just bribes “. So true. Another headline story today - a new drone program from the Pentagon will further enrich Donald Jr. Surprise, surprise. Trump didn’t lean on Netanyahu to stop destroying Gaza until Israel attacked Doha. The trump family businesses have about $1.5 billion in business deals in Qatar so he was furious and turned his wrath on Netanyahu. Probably still hoping for the Peace Prize next year too.. melania is now copying her husband’s penchant for suing people - suing a writer for $1 billion for a book he wrote alleging that she was a buddy of Epstein and met Donald through him.
But the polls show that MAGA remains unmoved. Loyal to the bitter end, Americans themselves have brought this horror show of an administration on all of us and I may never be able to forgive them, including friends and relatives who support him. Bannon says that the plans are underway for a third trump term. I presume that he will be president for life - a King.
Our former USAID project friend has a contract now, for a gig job in China. The group she was hired by is supported by private foundation money. But it’s gig work - no benefits, no ongoing salary.
I'm contrasting this scenario with the rescue of Notre Dame in Paris after the fire. Where it was possible they stayed true to the original, and it was what the people of France wanted.
DeleteAnne, I don't expect hard core MAGA to be moved by anything, they're in a cult. I wouldn't say that helps me be more tolerant, but maybe a little more understanding. It's similar to how I felt sorry for the people who followed Jimmy Jones off the cliff into the poisoned koolaid. It was their own fault for following him, but they weren't very bright and were abuse victims. Unfortunately we're all victims of MAGA. But we don't have to stay that way. Only about 25% are the "base". I have less understanding or sympathy for the ones who aren't true believers but are in it for selfish reasons.
DeleteKatherine, yes.
DeleteAmerica is the land where people constantly reinvent themselves, and I think that extends to our public buildings and spaces. We're always tearing down and rebuilding. The workmanship often usn't any better than it has to be.
Most Americans have never seen a city landscape where the buildings harmonize with the landscape or each other. So you have strip mall/big box architecture on one hand and rich people building art galleries and museums to honor themselves.
The Michigan Capitol underwent a restoration a few years ago. Big faction of legislators who did not want to "waste" money hiring skilled crafts people to restore gilt work and murals on the dome. They just wanted to paint over it to lower maintenance costs. Was happy they lost out, but as fewer people pursue conservator skills, I doubt the dome art will survive the next round of remodeling.
You have some beautiful murals in the Nebraska Capitol. I hope you can keep them.
Nebraskans are pretty proud of their capitol building (in spite of their rather crude nickname for it, the p*nis of the plains) . It is definitely the tallest building in that neighborhood! I'm sure they will keep the murals.
DeleteThere are even quite a few of those WPA era post office murals still existing, including one in my hometown. It is a herd of longhorns, and cowboys on horses. Which is historically accurate. It was the last stop before the railroad on the cattle drives of the late 1800s.
Katherine, the Jimmy Jones fools who drank the kool- aid killed themselves. But MAGA is destroying 340 million Americans in a different way. I don’t give them a pass, at least not the MAGAs I know and am related to. They are all well to do, and highly educated, most with advanced degrees. They claim to be “Christians “ and wear their religion on their sleeves, especially the Catholics in my family and my husband’s evangelical, Libertarian brother. One of our nephews (the son of the evangelical brother) was married to a woman whose aunt was among the kool aid drinkers. As a result, she hates anything associated with Christianity. She looks at Christianity itself as a cult - all of it.
DeleteRaber must be heartbroken at the destruction of so many historic buildings in our country. This one is probably the worst.
One reason we so enjoy long distance road trips in Europe with a rental car is the absence of strip malls and billboards. We loved driving through cities, towns and villages, all with charm and beautiful buildings, glorious displays of flowers in the summer, Almost all buildings and homes, townhouses, have window boxes and containers by the doors, overflowing with flowers. The florist shops were in every town, with flowers for sale in big containers on the sidewalks.That was even true in Sydney, a relatively newish, modern buildings city. Driving through Europe is an aesthetic feast for the eyes in cities, towns, villages and along the highways, not just country roads. There are ugly industrial areas on the fringes of some towns, and high rise housing and offices, mostly on the outskirts, but it’s not as almost relentlessly ugly as it is here. Having driven across the US seven times, and Maine to Florida more times than I remember, I am sad that there is so much ugliness because our natural landscapes from sea to shining sea are often breathtaking, especially in the southwest and Rockies states, and both coasts. Now trump is working to despoil our beautiful national parks and other natural areas. Ugliness is in his soul except for the lavish palaces built by kings and emperors in Europe (including the Kremlin). Our American architectural heritage is more modest - a lot less gold and mirrors - but beautiful and distinguished. The craftsmanship Jean mentions is disappearing here. The Washington National Cathedral had a hard time finding the skilled craftsmen they needed to restore the Cathedral after the earthquake. They are still working on it. The restoration of Notre Dame after damage that was so much worse was done in record time because it was a national priority. PBS has a fascinating documentary on it - the lengths they went to in the restoration to make it perfect. Lady Bird Johnson tried to improve the views on American highways, but her influence didn’t last long.
The interior of Notre Dame has also been cleaned of centuries of dirt build up and is now much brighter, looking at the photos. One of my friends from my student year in France isn’t sure if she likes the bright, clean walls as much as the old walls with centuries of history now cleaned away. I would love to be able to go there to see it in person, but that’s just a pipedream now.
An architect on Substack claims that the 250M USD cost for the ballroom is much higher than required for only a ballroom. For that reason, he thinks that it’s a cover story for an improved underground bunker. Is he expecting a nuclear war? Or just a lot of angry people with torches and axes?
DeleteKatherine, I hope they preserve those murals. On one California to east coast trip we went through the Tetons, Yellowstone, then through Cody and Sheridan Wyoming. Both have preserved a lot of their heritage, old west heritage, including murals of cattle drives. A friend of mine in California lives in an old west style small town on the desert side of the Sierra Nevada mountains in SoCal, and they are carefully preserving that heritage too.
DeleteStanley, I just read this on FB. Have to copy it in two comments. Haven’t fact-checked yet. The price has gone up to $300k. I’m sure the WH already has a bunker and there is an extensive underground nuclear war bunker somewhere - I thought Pennsylvania- that would house the President and entourage for a very long time in the event of a nuclear war.
Delete“ An architect named Andrew Kerr just laid out why Trump’s White House ballroom project is basically bullshit. And his math checks out.
Here’s the deal. Trump’s now saying this 90,000 square foot ballroom will cost $300 million. Do the math on that - it’s $3,333 per square foot. For context, $1,000 per square foot is already astronomical for construction. We’re talking about a price tag that makes zero sense unless you’re building on the moon.
Kerr points out that if this thing actually follows classical proportions like the renderings suggest, you’re looking at a footprint about 380 feet by 235 feet. That’s longer than a football field and 1.5 times as wide. For a ballroom that’s supposed to hold 999 people - which by the way, started at 650 people when this was first announced in July and magically grew to accommodate almost 1,000.
Let’s talk about what you actually need for 999 people according to Kerr. At a comfortable 20 square feet per person for a banquet - which is pretty generous - you need 20,000 square feet. Throw in another 10,000 for support functions and 10,000 for pre-function space, and you’re at 40,000 square feet. That’s less than half of the supposed 90,000 square feet. So what’s the other 50,000 square feet for?
The renderings are also suspect. Kerr notes that the interior and exterior views don’t match. The White House is 70 feet tall to the roof. The interior renderings show a room about 100 by 200 feet with a 20-foot ceiling. But the exterior renderings show a footprint 4.5 times larger than that. The math doesn’t work.
P lus - there are no actual architectural drawings. Just some pretty renderings that could have been whipped up by junior staff in a week or two. That’s it. No construction documents, no engineered plans, no detailed specifications. For a $300 million project that’s supposedly breaking ground and already has demolition crews tearing down the East Wing.
cont.
DeleteFor context, typical commercial construction in 2025 runs $240 to $870 per square foot depending on location and building type. Even high-rise offices in expensive cities like DC max out around $870 to $1,000 per square foot. Trump’s ballroom is coming in at more than three times that amount.
Let’s also talk about what this space is actually for. The current East Room holds 200 people for state dinners. So we’re supposedly building something 1.6 times the size of the entire White House residence to accommodate 5 times the capacity of the East Room.
The architect behind this project? James McCrery - whose firm specializes in Catholic churches. His biggest project to date was the Cathedral of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus in Knoxville, Tennessee. His other federal government work includes designing a pedestal for a Ronald Reagan statue and a gift shop at the Supreme Court. That’s it. Now he’s supposedly designing a $300 million addition to the most famous building in America that’s bigger than the White House itself.
The firm’s website is basically empty - just a contact form for new commissions and a slideshow. No detailed project portfolio, no team information, nothing that would inspire confidence in a firm handling a project of this magnitude. Even their Instagram is bare - “Committed to Tradition and Excellence” in the bio, but zero posts.
Here’s what makes this whole thing smell like bullshit: The project was announced in July with a $200 million price tag. By September, Trump was saying $250 million. Now in October, we’re at $300 million - a 50% cost increase before construction even really starts. That’s not how legitimate projects work. That’s how grifts work.
The timeline is also absurd. They announced this in July, started demolition in September, and claim they’ll have it done before Trump’s term ends in January 2029. That’s less than four years to design, permit, and construct a 90,000 square foot addition to a National Historic Landmark. For context, the Truman renovation of the White House - which kept only the exterior walls standing - took nearly four years from 1948 to 1952. And that was with full congressional funding and proper oversight.
Now, let me ask you this - if the timeline is correct - why the hell would the most selfish man on earth spend 3.5 years building a ballroom that won’t be ready to use until the month he moves out of the White House?
Yeah - this is all BS”
Back to trees - “ Trump’s bulldozers didn’t stop at the East Wing. Now even the trees are gone. Six of them, including magnolias planted to honor presidents Warren G. Harding and Franklin D. Roosevelt, have been wiped out to make way for his ballroom project.
DeleteOne of those trees was planted by First Lady Florence Harding back in 1922, another by Roosevelt himself in 1942. Jill Biden’s cherry tree, planted with Japan’s first lady just two years ago, is gone too. Along with them is also The Jacqueline Kennedy Garden, the family theater, and the East Colonnade — all flattened.”
Stanley, I do believe that the FDR-era bunker was under the East Wing. Possible that Trump hopes to have a big beautiful new safe room for himself under the Trump Ballroom. The billionaire class in general seems obsessed with The Event, their code word for the collapse of civilization that sends them to their high tech hideouts.
DeleteAt this point I fear for the California redwoods- Trump will probably turn the ancient forests over to loggers.
Delete“The oldest confirmed Sequoia sempervirens (coast redwood) in California is over 1,286 years old, located in Monterey County's Mitteldorf Preserve, and dates back to at least 734 AD. However, the oldest Sequoiadendron giganteum (giant sequoia) in the state is estimated to be over 3,200 years old, with the specific tree being named "The President" and located in Sequoia National Park”.
If he doesn’t destroy the forest he will probably rename the giant Sequoia the Donald Trump.
Stanley, the thought also occurs to me that some of that money is going into Trump's own coffers. It's money laundering, straight off the clothesline into his basket. In return for "favors", of course.
DeleteI renounce Trump and all his works. But I think Trump haters focus too much on him without looking at what in our national psychology. We are a throwaway culture consumes an ever changing array of goods, mostly on credit. It's not just fast fashion, fast food, fast cars, and overnight delivery of plastic stuff you don't need that will end up in gyres of crap in the ocean sloughing off micro plastics. We throw addicts and crazy people out on the street, we flush unwanted fetuses down the drain, and we shove old people with Alzheimer's into understaffed warehouses to lie in their own filth. Gluttony is the national sin. Is it a surprise that Trump is our leader?
DeleteJean, I agree with your sentiments. That’s why I have little hope for our country’s future. That’s why I’m not objecting to our eldest son’s move to Spain when school gets out. Or our youngest son’s potential move to Europe. Once he has his French Citizenship in January they can move anywhere in the EU to live and work. All of the countries have problems, But they are “ normal” problems. America is the most powerful, richest. country now, but the extent of the rot in our collective national souls means that eventually it will get much worse for Americans.
DeleteThe bunker is probably being enlarged to house trump and his friends and family. The other bunkers are in Virginia and West Virginia. Wiki says
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Emergency_Operations_Center
Under the category of funny-not-funny, there was a post on Facebook with a picture of a cleared down to bare dirt excavation. The message was, "Need someone to pour a pad for me." I thought it was a joke about the now demolished east wing. Turned out it was someone local who was really looking for a contractor to pour concrete for him.
DeleteKaUtherine, I think my mental processes have completely deteriorated from living in the surreal atmosphere in our country these days.
DeleteTalking about our many road trips made me think about the bucket list trips we will probably now never make. We had hoped to go to Michigan, to the Upper Peninsula and to some of the small towns on the lake that I have read about in novels. They sound so charming and beautiful. I also wanted to go to Mackinac Island, but wonder if it has become too popular. I will probably never find out. Minnesota with its 10,000 lakes was intriguing, but no desire to see the Mall of America. My paternal grandfather moved to Minneapolis as soon as he arrived in America with his two brothers, and I have some second cousins there still. I never really researched Nebraska, but did think that if we did another long trip across country we might divert north of I70 to Nebraska to see where my maternal grandmother's relatives lived. We've been to Chicago, and I was amazed that Lake Michigan really does look like the ocean! But very cold there I understand. A college friend who grew up in Long Island NY married a guy from Chicago and moved there. I still remember her first Christmas card from there - she said the weather in Chicago made Long Island seem like the tropics. True Jim? She and her husband moved to Napiervile, where I once visited her. Is that very far from you, Jim?
Do any of you have any bucket list dreams? Even if it's just finally getting the veggie garden into shape? I'm trying to think of some that don't involve long distance travel, because that's just too hard now. I need inspiration.
A thing on my bucket list is to work more on art projects and spend less time doomscrolling.
DeleteSounds good. I wish I had artistic talent. The doomscrolling is addictive unfortunately, especially when we are at home most of the time. I’m trying to get back to “death cleaning” instead🤨 we still need to sell this two story house and get a ranch somewhere.
Delete"Need someone to pour a pad for me." Thank you for the lighter moment.
DeleteI like watching Garron on YouTube talk about the joys of Irish home cooking:
"If you're not putting enough butter on that to endanger your health, you're not using enough butter."
"Seasonings are for degenerates."
"Irish people eat bacon. Stop these lies about corned beef. I've never had it and wouldn't eat it."
Mackinac Island is a tourist trap unless you go by horse or bike (no cars) to the east side of the island. A lot of Irish there in the 1830s, and then they moved to Beaver Island after killing the Mormon "King" James Jesse Strang and running off his followers.
DeleteI don't think you'd find little Upper Peninsula towns charming or beautiful. Eccentric maybe. Like the three guys in Marquette who went to the all-night laundromat after the bars closed with their accordion, stripped down, and were having a polka party while their duds washed. Stuff like that all the time due to high rates of alcoholism.
There are still a few places you can buy good pasties or smoked lake fish. Most economies up there are now dominated by the three universities, two prisons, or casinos.
Lots of history in the Keewenaw, but that place is like Appalachia. The mines closed and desolated the place.
You find "beautiful and charming" towns on Lake Michigan between Ludington and Mackinaw City.
Jean, thanks for the insider tips. I haven’t totally given up hope. One of our retirement plans had been to do a long road trip to multiple national parks, off season but not bad weather season. Right now we have to be content with watching the National Parks documentaries on PBS. A Wheelchair Travel group occasionally has national park excursions so I am keeping an eye on their offerings. They handle a lot of the logistics for wheelchair bound folk. They know the places to stay, the accessibility of the attractions, provide transportation etc. so I haven’t totally given up on that possibility. We’ve been to several - in California, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Maine, and a couple in the coastal southern states, but none of the parks in the Midwest or the NW, or near the Canadian border.
DeleteI had suspected that Mackinac Island might be a tourist trap, at least during high season, but it would still be nice to see it. It’s been on our list for many years. I’m surprised about the UP information. Not what I imagined at all! It may go down to the bottom of the list. Eccentric can be fun, but if time is short and travel is hard, probably not worth the effort. Another place I’ve heard a lot about is Door County, WI. Anyone with experience there?
"If you're not putting enough butter on that to endanger your health, you're not using enough butter."
DeleteAbsolutely agree!
It would be fun to travel, but a couple of reasons why we don't very much. One is money, it's expensive. Another is that while I might like to travel, my body doesn't. Seems like I catch something every time I'm on a plane, which is too bad, it's fun to fly. And I hate long car trips. Especially if my husband is driving. I like to watch travel shows on tv, and hear about other people's trips, though. My globe trotter brother and sister in law are in Japan now. Their daughter and son in law are airline pilots, and parents get to fly free on stand by. Which is a nice perk. They do it a lot. My brother takes good pictures, and writes it up in an interesting way.
DeleteA Great Lakes cruise would be wheelchair accessible. Mackinac Island is a popular stop on most of them. You might be able to find a route that covered both the Island and Dorr County.
DeleteThe Lake Geneva area of Wisconsin, just north of Chicago, is pretty. The Unitarians used to have a retreat center there. But that was 50 years ago.
Katherine, same here. Just driving the four-hour round trip to Roscommon a couple weeks ago did me in for two days afterward. I can't fly because of clot risks. We used to take the Amtrak to Canada to the Stratford Festival every year. When you crossed into Canada, they connected the lounge car, service and food improved, and your dollar was worth 30 cents more because of the exchange rate.
DeleteYes, I understand that the Walmart family has a doomsday bunker. The problem is, how do you staff it. If you hire people to act as servants, and the system that made the Waltons rich goes poof, how do you keep the servants that run the place from taking over? Maybe that’s why the rich are furiously funding robots and AI. Servants without selves. But I think the people most likely to survive a collapse might be Amazonian natives. I saw a video where a young woman started with nothing, fashioned her own tools with stone, wood, vines, and proceeded to build a nice, comfortable, little house. Really impressive.
DeleteGreat suggestions, Jean. I just googled Great Lakes cruises and found that a lot of cruises are offered including from some of the biggest cruise lines. They are more likely to be wheelchair accessible. I’m going to start researching those for next summer maybe.
ReplyDeleteOne cruise line goes into five lakes and includes stops in French Canada as well. . I’m going to look into that one but I fear it won’t be wheelchair accessible.
DeleteAs a lifelong resident, I've never seen a cruise ship in the Great Lakes. They probably stick to more populated areas than we go to. Been on lots of ferries and tour boats that hug shorelines.
DeleteThe parents in our neighborhood were fond of a certain river cruise they'd drag us on every fall. There was a wildlife tour going upriver. Every adult got a chit with his ticket that could be exchanged for a bottle of beer when the boat turned to go back downriver.
On the return trip, this guy named Willie played a concertina and led sing-alongs with Mitch Miller type songs. Everybody sang and was pretty mellow at the end of that deal.
It was strictly low rent. The moms packed us sandwiches and apples in a hamper they put under their seats. Sometimes my dad would buy us popcorn from the concession stand. But we were in the fresh air and our parents seemed to enjoy the outing a lot.
So that's my Michigan water excursion experience outside of the ubiquitous ferries, rowboats, and sunfish type sailboats.
We have never been interested in cruising, especially on big ships. We were sailors. Your childhood river cruises sound just like the kind of thing we’ve always liked. Ferries are usually great. Unfortunately the type of travel we enjoyed for 50 years is no longer possible. The big ships have elevators and wide corridors etc and may be our only option except for relatively short road trips (8 hours or less one way). Air travel is possible, but difficult too.
DeleteI was never interested in a cruise either, but it gets more appealing past a certain age and level of infirmity. I sure as heck could not row or wrangle a sail any more. Not enough stamina and agility.
DeleteHope something works out for an excursion. A trip up the St Lawrence from Toronto or points east to Quebec City would also be nice.
The only place in Canada we’ve visited is Vancouver. The route you suggest is very appealing.
DeleteFor Katherine - from an article in The Economist. I don’t know if any of your family is still raising cattle, but trump is again twisting the truth to claim that his tariffs are benefiting ranchers.
Delete“ …., Olivier delved into Trump’s proposal to import more beef from Argentina amid high beef prices in the U.S.
American cattle ranchers (and the lawmakers who represent them) aren’t into the idea:
“Nebraska’s ranchers cannot afford to have the rug pulled out from under them when they’re just getting ahead or simply breaking even,” Republican Sen. Deb Fischer of Nebraska wrote on social media.
“This is not America first!” said GOP Rep. Thomas Massie of Kentucky.
“To buy beef from Argentina to stabilize beef prices would be an absolute betrayal to the American cattle rancher,” Wyoming beef producer Meriwether Farms posted.
Trump was apparently not moved. Posting on Truth Social, he said, “Cattle Ranchers, who I love, don’t understand that the only reason they are doing so well, for the first time in decades, is because I put Tariffs on cattle coming into the United States, including a 50% Tariff on Brazil.”
The Trump administration then signaled Thursday it would quadruple the amount of Argentine beef the U.S. imports at a lower tariff rate.
Olivier notes the move comes as a key election looms for the leader of the South American country, which also just received a $20 billion bailout from the Trump administration.”
Yes, my brother and his family are still raising cattle. We don't talk politics with him, touchy subject. I'm sure he doesn't like what Trump is doing with Argentine beef. People are unfortunately learning the hard way that Trump isn't their friend, he only thinks about himself. Not to mention, Trump has no understanding of economics.
DeleteDeb Fisher is not my favorite politician, but at least she's pushing back on this issue.
The clients of my youngest son’s company in the US are mostly cattle ranchers. Not many sheep farmers, unlike in Australia , with many of both, and the UK. He says that even though trump’s policies hurt his cattle ranching clients they remain stubbornly loyal to him. Food assistance may be cut off by Nov 1. That will hurt red states hard, but it will probably not shake up the voters enough to abandon their loyalty - it’s a cult.
DeletePart of the problem is peer pressure, tribalism. I feel like telling some of them, you don't have to tell anybody who you vote for. They're not going to find out unless you tell them. My brother, for instance, has the same friends he had in grade school. Some of them were sons of people our parents or grandparents were friends with. They're like family (though they could argue till doomsday with actual family, like know-it-all older sisters). I don't take the bait. My feisty sister will.
DeleteI should add, that the brother is more traditional Republican than MAGA, the family (including me) were Bush and Reagan Republicans. He doesn't actually like Trump, if the Republicans would run someone decent, he would support them. They don't understand that Trump killed the Republican party. And Democrats are commie satan spawn.
DeleteNo SNAP benefits for November, and state of Michigan will not pick up slack. Folks are being told to use food banks and free church dinners for the Thanksgiving holiday. Yep, go sit in a crowded church hall cheek by jowl with hundreds of other people who haven't bothered to vax at the height of COVID and flu season.
DeleteI snagged a nice pork roast for the freezer when they were on sale in Sept, and local squash and green beans are still cheap. Going to the farm market today to stock up on a few things I can freeze.
Beef is out of our price range entirely, not a huge prob because Raber is on heart-healthy diet and restricted from saturated fat anyway.
But everything is more expensive by about 20-30 percent here. Trump says food prices are down, proof that he is a clueless liar.
Katherine, your family history and current situation sound like mine. However, you are still on speaking terms with your brother. I am barely on speaking terms with my eldest sister. Emails about extended family business only. I do speak with my MAGA brother and sister in law in Arizona but it’s walking on eggshells. My sister who passed away two years ago wasn’t MAGA. She and I became the two black sheep, but she pretty much laid low with her opinions while I shout them from the rooftops.
DeleteOur youngest son and family are coming for Thanksgiving. We’ve always cooked a turkey. We haven’t eaten much beef for thirty years - red meat is a treat in our home. Maybe once/month .We eat a lot of chicken and fish and pasta. I recently visited a cardiologist because my sister died of a heart attack out of the blue and my sister in law died of heart failure due to having 90% of her coronary arteries blocked. One of the tests the doctor did was to look for calcium in my heart arteries. The test isn’t covered by Medicare but I took it anyway and paid out of pocket. It was worth it to know that my arteries are very clear - I’m in the lowest risk category. So is my husband, even though he was diagnosed with mild heart failure 6 years ago. For unknown causes. My late sister in law cooked meat all the time - bacon every day, beef and pork several days/ week. About three years before she died she went on the keto diet, with about 80% of her calories coming from fat. In her case she didn’t heed the advice to minimize animal fats and use olive oil etc. So keep Raber on his diet! I think it works.
DeleteDoc told Raber smoking and drinking was the biggest proven risk. Exercise has proven benefits. The jury is out on whether diet does enough to offset genetic heart factors, but a good diet can help you feel better and make you less sluggish.
DeleteI think that we all have individual tolerances for various kinds of food. My husband developed allergies to mollusks in his 40s - he had eaten them all of his life until then. I can eat them. He has no plaque buildup in his arteries, nor do I, but his brother (married to the bacon every day and red meat several times/week) wife did and had to have stents put in to his heart when he was about 72. Brothers, but very different heart health profiles. Brother's wife is the one who died of heart failure a year ago after eating lots of meat all of her life, and even more the last 3 years when she was eating Keto. Her arteries were so clogged that they had to put in 5 stents during 3 separate operations. It was too late - her heart failed. My heart arteries are clear -it might be lucky genetics or it might be the low animal fat diet I've eaten for the last 30 years or a combination of both influences. Is my husband just lucky too compared to his brother or was it his diet for the last 30 years. Who knows? But the data are pretty convincing that lower animal fat diets are healthier than high fat. The Mediterranean Diet is still touted as "the best" for overall health. I've tried to follow those guidelines, at least loosely. More veggies and grains and olive oil and fish and less red meat. But fish has gotten really expensive! Red meat is much cheaper. If I didn't have to cook for my husband I would probably be a vegetarian. I gave up meat for Lent once and it was really easy to do. I barely noticed it.
DeleteAnd sometimes you have heart problems because of something you were born with. My cattle rancher brother has had two heart valve replacement surgeries, not because of a diet of red meat, but because he had a bicuspid aortic valve defect. Where normally one's heart would have three valve flaps, his only had two. Most people don't find out about it until later in life, when their bodies can't compensate for the defect any more. Good thing he had a subsidized ACA policy, and then Medicare when he turned 65. Fortunately the other four of us siblings didn't have that defect; apparently it was just a one-off and not genetic.
DeleteYes, genetic defects are often not picked up, although I think that more are now than we were all kids. The newborns have a lot more tests than even our grandchildren had when they were born. Your brother was lucky to have insurance when it was discovered. Those who find out they have that kind of major health issue without insurance often end up in bankruptcy court. The horrible system we have here also spawned the whole medical tourism industry and it’s not just for cheap facelifts. I read of one man whose heart issue required a $200,000 operation who flew to India. He had first class treatment in a private hospital run by doctors with medical degrees from Americas top medical schools. The cost was about 15% of the cost in the US, including airfare from North Carolina to India.
DeleteAfter my mother had her heart attack at age 76, the catheterization revealed she had a bicuspid aortic valve and the arteries supplying blood to her heart were routed totally anomalously. Her heart attack was caused by blockages in those arteries but, due to the anomalies, could not be stented. The cardiologist managed her condition with medicine. I thought she’d have ten years. She got nineteen. And her bicuspid valve never became stenotic. I could never figure it out but It worked out well.
DeleteAmazing story, Stanley
Delete