Tuesday, September 2, 2025

Disney: Model of the Upper Class Economy

Disney and the Decline of the Middle Class 

In the midst of its fixation on Trump, I found a great article in the NYTimes.  It is a beautiful illustration of what has happened to the American economy in the past decade or two.

The recently renovated 1,863-square-foot King Kamehameha suite at Disney’s Polynesian Village Resort, which offers a huge bi-level great room, views of Cinderella Castle and a soaking tub, can go for $3,000 a night. The sleek GEO-82 Bar and Lounge in EPCOT offers a package that includes a tower of small bites, champagne or cocktails and a table with views of the park’s fireworks show for $179 a person (entry to the park not included but required). A wine-paired prix fixe meal at the Michelin-starred Victoria & Albert’s at Disney’s Grand Floridian hotel starts at over $1,200 for two. And so on.


For most of the park’s history, Disney was priced to welcome people across the income spectrum, embracing the motto “Everyone is a V.I.P.” In doing so, it created a shared American culture by providing the same experience to every guest. The family that pulled up in a new Cadillac stood in the same lines, ate the same food and rode the same rides as the family that arrived in a used Chevy. Back then, America’s large and thriving middle class was the focus of most companies’ efforts and firmly in the driver’s seat.

That middle class has so eroded in size and in purchasing power — and the wealth of our top earners has so exploded — that America’s most important market today is its affluent. As more companies tailor their offerings to the top, the experiences we once shared are increasingly differentiated by how much we have.

Data is part of what’s driving this shift. The rise of the internet, the algorithm, the smartphone and now artificial intelligence are giving corporations the tools to target the fast-growing masses of high-net-worth Americans with increasing ease. As a management consultant, I’ve worked with dozens of companies making this very transition. Many of our biggest private institutions are now focused on selling the privileged a markedly better experience, leaving everyone else to either give up — or fight to keep up.

Disney’s ethos began to change in the 1990s as it increased its luxury offerings, but only after the economic shock of the pandemic did the company seem to more fully abandon any pretense of being a middle-class institution. A Disney vacation today is “for the top 20 percent of American households — really, if I’m honest, maybe the top 10 percent or 5 percent,” said Len Testa, a computer scientist whose “Unofficial Guide” books and website Touring Plans offer advice on how to manage crowds and minimize waiting in line. “Disney positions itself as the all-American vacation. The irony is that most Americans can’t afford it.”

Disney was never cheap. A family day at the original Disneyland in California, including tickets, some rides and food for four people, was about a $30 affair when the park opened in 1955, which was a lot of money when the median family income was $4,400. But $30 — roughly the cost of a week’s groceries — was still an attainable number for much of America’s rapidly growing middle class.

In the early years, Disney ticket prices rose so slowly that at times they got cheaper after inflation. An employee handbook from the 1950s quotes Walt Disney as saying, “We roll out the red carpet for the Jones family from Joliet just as we would (with a few embellishments) for the Eisenhowers from Palm Springs.” Versions of Walt’s “Everyone is a V.I.P.” credo were in Disney’s new-employee training materials long after his death in 1966. Fortunately for him and his shareholders, embracing everybody made good business sense. That began to change in the 1990s.

At the same time, smartphone apps transformed how companies connected to their customers. In 2012 the My Disney Experience app gave guests an easy way to check wait times, show times, restaurant bookings and more. In return, Disney gained a trove of information on exactly where guests went, what they purchased and how much they spent in its complex. The app eventually became so integrated with a visit that much of a Disney park day can be dedicated to checking it; savvy guests bring an external battery.

More than ever before, Disney and companies like it have access to data showing them who is willing to spend what for which experiences. “Disney is an analytics company that happens to do movies and parks,” Mr. Testa said.

Over my three-decade-long consulting career, I saw industry after industry use this kind of information to shift their focus to the big spenders in its customer base. Banks, retailers, hotels, airlines, credit card issuers, manufacturers and universities all learned that their richest customers didn’t just spend more than the rest; they spent multiples more. Many companies found that if they didn’t focus on their richest customers, they couldn’t provide competitive salaries to staff members, increase returns to shareholders and attract capital to invest in new products. Whereas in the 1970s and before, the revenue driving corporate profits came from the middle class, by the 1990s it was clear that the big money was at the top.

One of the economic puzzles of the past five years has been the persistence of serious consumer negativity at a time when nearly everyone has a job, median household incomes are historically high, and we are spending more than we did before the pandemic. Yet all but the most affluent are seemingly not happy with the economy or their place in it.

We all judge our well-being against something, typically our past and our peers. Through either of those lenses, the Disney parks — and many similar institutions of American culture — may offer a piece of the puzzle. Compared with the past, a Disney trip is more expensive, to be sure, but perhaps more important, it feels much more expensive, because at every turn one is being invited to level up and spend more. Thanks to social media, we can now see the experiences that divide us. Go to Instagram and search for #Club33, the invitation-only clubs hidden within Disney properties. What you see there will not make you feel a kinship with your fellow man, unless you are one of the very few invited in.

America’s 20th century was a fortunate moment when we could rely on companies like Disney to deliver rich and unifying elements of our culture. Walt Disney hoped that his audience would have “no racial, national, political, religious or social differences”; he wanted to appeal to everyone, in no small part because appealing to everyone was profitable. It was a time when big institutions were trusted, and the culture they created was shared by nearly all Americans.

40 comments:

  1. The article has a detailed description of the experience of a middle class versus an upper-class family at Disney World. The above theoretical view integrates that empirical data with the theory.

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  2. We took the kids to DIsney World twice I think, and once to Disney Land. I always thought the parks were a rip-off. I will say that compared to Six Flags and similar theme-park operations, the Disney parks are better-run. But you really pay through the nose for it.

    The article, as quoted here, doesn't paint the full picture. I can easily accept that Disney caters to the well-to-do. But it does still have a class of hotel for every (or at least quite a few) income deciles. As I recall, the least-expensive option is to bring a camper or a tent and camp out. There are relatively inexpensive hotels "on-resort", and then a sort of ladder of increasingly more-expensive hotels. As you climb the ladder, the amenities get a little nicer compared to the rung below. And in addition to the Disney-owned properties, there are a plethora of non-Disney hotels, restaurants etc. in the Orlando area that are within a relatively short drive of the parks. I don't think we stayed "on-resort" when we took the kids.

    I also went to Disney World a handful of times for busines reasons - because it hosted hi-tech conventions. I don't know how big a slice of its revenue pie that sort of business represents, but it does have everything needed to host a big event - lots of hotel space, easy to fly in/fly out, dining options, etc. Not being a so-called Disney Adult (i.e. a grown-up captivated by the Disney mystique/hokum), I didn't find it to be compelling on the doorstep of the Magic Kingdom or Epcot - those conventions could easily have been in Las Vegas or LA or Boston and I would have felt the same about the experience. I did stay "on-resort" (on my employer's dime) on those trips, but inasmuch as I don't think I ever set foot in the theme parks, I'm not sure there was much advantage beyond an easy walk to the convention events.

    I'm down on Disney. It's also lost its way on what is its traditional core business, films. And it's contributed to making Broadway kind of sucky (an era I think we're in the midst of at the moment). The cost of Broadway shows could be a variation on the theme of this post. Whatever principles Walt himself established have been gone for a couple of generations now. Just my disgruntled dad view.

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  3. I remember, as a young child, sitting in a movie theater in my hometown, waiting for a Disney movie to begin. (Could have been Song of the South - it was a different era.) Before the feature film began, we were shown a 5- or 10-minute infomercial on this coming attraction, Disney World. Disney Land had been around since, I think, the 1950s, but Disney World was going to be way bigger and better, or so the extended advertisement told us. You should have heard the oohs and aahs from everyone in the theater, both kids and adults. If a Disney exec had been in the audience, he would have rubbed his hands in glee, because it was pretty clear that they had a sure-fire hit on their hands with Disney World.

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    1. Jim, "Song of the South", I remember my dad taking me and my brother to see that at the drive in theater. My other brother was a baby, and I think Dad was giving Mom a break by taking us older kids out.

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  4. Disneyland (Anaheim) opened when I was a kid. It operated differently then - there were ticket books of different prices. Some had a lot of "cheap" ride tickets; the more expensive books had a lot of 'expensive ride" tickets. My mom couldn't afford to take us to Disneyland, but my best friend's mom worked for Warner Brothers. One of her perks was getting the bracelet for Disneyland - no ticket book - the bracelets we wore got us into every ride as many times as as we wanted. I still remember the banana splits we had at the ice cream parlor on Main Street. I had never had one (my mom didn't have the money even to buy us normal cones) and I couldn't believe how huge it was, and how delicious. When our grandson was born (he's 11 now) our son and his wife bought season tickets - he was free until age 4, and the price for them was reasonable. They took him to Disneyland (Anaheim) several times/year. Then the prices shot up. Because they go to Europe every summer, their most recent Disney trip was to Disney Paris (it's outside of Paris - accessible by train). They said it was

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    1. Hit send accidently. Disney Paris was way cheaper than the American Disneys - so cheap they said a family of 4 might be better off flying to France and also taking in Paris than going to Orlando or California. Our son said Disneyland (Anaheim) prices shot up after Covid. No more season tickets - they took their daughter the first time when she was 4 -but to the Paris Disney.
      When the boys were young we drove to Sanibel Island Fl most spring breaks - we had bought a timeshare there. It was 18 hours one way. We drove all night, alternating shifts, boys asleep in the car, and stayed overnight in Orlando every year - different attractions each year. The Magic Kingdom (more than once), Universal, Marineland etc. Disney World Orlando was still relatively affordable - we never stayed on the property. Actually we usually rented a nearby condo overnight - they were really inexpensive - less than a cheap motel, but with space for 5, refrigerator etc. This was pre-AirbNb, but the AAA guide actually listed apartments and condos for nightly rent. Many off-property hotels have shuttles to Disney World.

      I looked up the prices for Orlando a couple of years ago - tentatively planning a family vacation in Florida, including a trip to Disney. I couldn't believe the prices.

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  5. Unrelated item: Pope Leo clearly endorsed Fr. Jim Martin on Labor Day saying he would be continuing Francis's outreach to gay communities and encouraging Martin to continue his ministry to the same groups.

    Conservatives cannot claim that Pope Leo was ignorant that a labor day interview would give Martin a largely vacant news time which he promptly used with an AP interview after the event.

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  6. Back on topic: Our recently retired pastor of almost thirty years had a strong admiration for Walt Disney and Disney World. Every January he spent a week there. (Probably paid for by some rich parish members).

    Every person a V.I.P translated for him into every person is a talented person, though his preaching emphasized that the listener was a talented person. I never heard him emphasize that other people e.g. the poor, or the mentally ill, etc. were talented people.

    At his going away Mass and homily he talked to us about how important Disney was to him, and that the Lion King had the greatest impact upon him, because the Lion King realized that it had come time to lay down his crown. The pastor had seen of the movie about the time that health issues threatened his early retirement.

    (Not so sure he realized the great amount of clericalism that was implicit in that identification, e.g. the parish spent a great deal of the past year celebrating his retirement, or in more politically correct terms, the smooth transition that was taking place by having the Parochial Vicar become the Parish Administrator. Speak of being self-referential!)

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  7. We have never been to Disneyland, or Disney World. Never really wanted to. But we did go to Hawaii in 2012, to celebrate our 40th anniversary. It was something we always wanted to do. That long ago it was still possible for not-rich people to spend a week there without going bankrupt. I won't say we exactly did it on the cheap, but by doing our research we could afford it. The one thing we did splurge on a little was staying at the Hilton Hawaiian village in Honolulu. But we didn't rent a car, and took public transportation everywhere. There were free trolley rides to places like Hilo Hattie's. We ate most of our meals at the Wailana Coffee House, which was sort of the Hawaiian equivalent of a Denny's restaurant. We bought souvenirs for the family at the ABC Store. They're basically a convenience store with some additional merch and a small deli. Took a day trip to the island of Kauai. There really was an aloha spirit, part of the fun was meeting friendly people.
    Fast forward 13 years. I'm now reading that Hawaii is aiming for fewer visitors who spend more money. Which amounts to the same thing Jack is saying about Disney. It would be fun to go back to Hawaii, but I think with things being what they are, we'd better just cherish the memories.

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    1. Unfortunately we read that the iconic Wailana Coffee House had closed. They couldn't afford the real estate that they occupied.

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    2. Similar things happening on Michigan's "gold coast" on the west side of the state. Now caters to wealthy auto exec retirees and Chicago yacht owners. Expensive, exclusive marinas, golf courses, and destination vineyards have affected wildlife populations. Mom-and-pop motels, diners getting squeezed. Much smaller public beaches and more "no trespassing" signs. Huge Native American casinos have also added to the congestion.

      We go to the Lake Huron side of the state. Last week saw two loons, swans, a couple of sandhill cranes, and a bald eagle swooping around. Little gem of a place that nobody knows.

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    3. "Little gem of a place that nobody knows". Love those kind of places!

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  8. Katherine, I would happily go back to Hawaii over and over. It’s so beautiful and each island has its own personality. We had hoped to go back to Disney after a break of decades. We really enjoyed taking our sons to Disney World and have great family memories of those trips. So we had looked forward to taking our grandchildren there. Events intervened, and we will not be doing so. When I look at the admission prices now, and their complicated new tiered pricing, I’m just as glad that we won’t be taking them.

    Hawaii is ( was) affordable - relatively speaking - as long as it isn’t peak season. So no holiday periods or spring break season. In Oahu it’s sensible not to have a car. The traffic in the Waikiki area is horrible and hotels charge a fortune for overnight parking. We stayed in Waikiki twice - once with our sons, and later just for one night en route to visit our son in Sydney. We took taxis and Ubers. We prefer the north shore of Hawaii - much quieter and much more old Hawaii. It’s gotten more expensive to stay in Hawaii because they are short of housing. So they passed a law limiting how many rentals can be short- term (less than 30 days). Except for Waikiki, we rented condos or traded our Florida timeshare instead of staying in hotels - more space for five of us, kitchen etc and cheaper than hotels. Apparently the new law has pushed up condo rental rates - reducing the supply of short- term rentals of course pushes up rates, although I’m sure condos are still cheaper than hotels for a family. Maybe not for a couple. Supply and demand.

    I’ve not seen many Disney movies, including The Lion King. When I was young we lived next door to a Disney cartoonist - long before computers took over “ drawing” cartoons. He worked in an office at home, literally drawing Pluto or Mickey or Donald over and over on large pieces of paper, with the drawing changing minutely on each succeeding page. In those days ( the 1950s) then they would take photos of each separate drawing, and then up the speed so that the figures looked like they were moving.

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    1. Another memory. I went to Disney Anaheim twice - when my friend’s mom took me when I was about 8 and when I graduated from high school. Disney used to close the park to regular visitors early during graduation season. Then it was filled with new high school graduates all night. The busses left early in the morning to take kids back to their schools. It was really fun to be there all night with all high school grads. I wonder if they still do that or if the end of a relative age of innocence before even marijuana was used much by teenagers eventually put a halt to that grad night at Disney tradition. I think I will research that. I had forgotten about it until this discussion.

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    2. Yes - they still do it at the California location. One tradition that has lasted.

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  9. Anybody I know who has taken that family vacation to Disney World has had to float it on a credit card. It seems to be a bigger draw for little girls. The Boy had no interest in Disney movies all about princesses. And the Lion King got submerged by Harry Potter at our house.

    He had a chance to go to Disney World in 2014 with his high school marching band, but it was $2K plus more for refreshments and merch, considerably more than a week's worth of groceries even at the group rates and crappy dorm the kids were staying at. We told him he needed to raise half the money himself (he had two years to do it) if he wanted to go to Disney. But he preferred to go study jazz in the woods at Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp.

    As I understand it, Disney turned his attention to the theme park biz when he grew disenchanted with a labor dispute with employees. He was something of a control freak who underpaid people for the prestige of working for Disney Studios at his compound.

    Slate has an interesting podcast on the Davy Crockett coonskin cap craze and Disney's attempt to cash in with Frontier World at Disneyland.

    https://slate.com/podcasts/one-year/s5/1955/e2/davy-crockett-craze-1955-walt-disney-television-movies-disneyland

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    1. LOL, one of my brothers had a faux coonskin hat. He was about 4 years old and went around singing the theme song "...king of the wild frontier".None of us ever went to the theme parks, but we saw the movies. You could do that for a quarter back then.

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    2. I think the generation gap is apparent in the Disney I knew, and my kids too, and the Disney of those of you young folk. My sons loved Disneyland - the Magic Kingdom part. They were young - I think our last family trip was when our eldest was about 12. They grew up before Disney princesses, and all of the movies like Lion King and, well, I don’t know the movies because they were after not only my time, but after my kids’ time. Yikes! I do know that my granddaughters ( 8 and 5) love the Disney princesses.

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    3. My brother and cousins got coonskin caps for Xmas one year, too. "Davy Crockett" killed Fess Parker's acting career. He was so identified with the role he couldn't get work except as Daniel Boone in a '60s TV series. Between TV, merchandising, and the parks, Disney Corp entered a whole new phase of money-making. The podcast is worth a listen.

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  10. I don’t listen to podcasts. My hearing isn’t good enough. I assume it’s negative about Disney. I loved Disneyland, and, later, we loved taking our kids to Disney in Orlando, - just the park - avoiding the expensive hotels. I’m sorry if Disneyland and The Magic Kingdom in Orlando are no longer affordable. But apparently it still can be done without the expensive hotels and restaurants even today. People can also camp inside the park in Orlando and commute to the Magic Kingdom etc using the monorail. Disney World in Florida has paid dearly for refusing to knuckle under to De Santos’s anti- LGBQT laws. A good reason to support them today. Orlando was a swamp before Disney - now it’s a thriving city, bringing in corporations as well as tourists. And huge amounts of tourist revenue and tax revenues to the state.

    The Disney parks were SO much better than any other amusement parks - we avoided the others in fact. They were usually somewhat trashy. So Only Disney for us. I had never heard the theory that the 1941 strike caused Disney to expand. I never heard bad things about Disney back in my youth, immersed indirectly in Hollywood industry - the people I knew working for the studios, including Disney, were not movie stars, but the thousands behind the scenes. The holiday and summer jobs at the parks were eagerly sought by college students. Even today I have indirect knowledge, less than when I was a kid though - my best friend at age 121 is still a close friend - her son has worked for Disney Studios for 30 years and has been quite happy there. Apparently Walt Disney wanted a park that would be fun for parents as well as kids. It worked for us, and for our sons ( one son hadn’t been with his kids yet). So here’s another side of the story. Apparently it all started when he took his daughter to a Griffith Park. Our own grandchildren, all 7, gathered together in LA on Labor Day weekend, were at Griffith Park last weekend. They have a train there that winds through the park that we also took our grandchildren to, and also a great train museum. The famous Hollywood sign is there too, at the top of the ridge .

    https://medium.com/@emma.bonca/disneyland-vs-walt-disney-world-history-32b737ad0457

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    1. lol! Best friend starting at age 11 - NOT 121. Although her mom lived to 105 so maybe my friend will be a centenarian too.

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    2. LOL, closest I ever came to Disneyland adventures was the county fair. I loved riding the carousel and the Ferris wheel, and eating some cotton candy (my mom said it was bad for you, and she was right, but it tasted good!) I didn't like the roller coaster or the tilt-a-whirl, was too scary (I was a big chicken). A couple of times I won a stuffed toy spinning the wheel of fortune.
      I didn't do 4H but liked to hang out with my cousins in the 4H calf barn.

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    3. No, not particularly negative about Disney, just outlines the way the Davy Crockett merch was not trademarked. Lots of people made fortunes selling Davy Crockett knock-off items, but not Disney. It explains the company's very aggressive efforts, mostly successful, to control its trademarks, copyrights, and merchandising now.

      And it helps amplify the quote in Jack's OP that "Disney is an analytics company." The princess features roll out now with huge marketing plans for toys, streaming/videos, CDs, Halloween costumes, books, Broadway show options, Disney park event tie-ins, etc. in place. These things are money-making juggernauts.

      Disney parks have never been racially segregated, and they got boycotted for awhile by some Christian groups because they had "gay days." Some gay men view the Disney movies about the social misfit as allegories for the gay experience. Lots of chatter about Elsa from "Frozen" from gay men in my movie group.

      "Sleeping Beauty" was the first movie I remember seeing in 1959/60. Maleficent turning into a dragon on the big screen. Whoa! Sign me up!

      Glad you have nice memories of the parks. I hate heat and motion sickness, so amusement parks never my cuppa tea.

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    4. I liked a lot of Disney movies as a kid, but glad my granddaughters are moving on from the princess movies. That theme has kind of been run into the ground.

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  11. Jim, unrelated, have you heard anything about Trump's threat to send troops to Chicago, just happens to coincide with fiestas and celebrations for Mexican Independence Day?

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    1. Katherine - yes, it's huge news here. I think a National Guard deployment is perceived as a smokescreen for an ICE ramp-up.

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    2. Seems like it's all a vendetta against blue state cities. I heard a pretty strongly worded statement by Gov. Pritzker on one of the news sites.

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    3. Apparently he may be switching to New Orleans because the Gov of Louisiana won’t put up a fight.

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    4. We'll see how it plays out. Sometimes Trump backs off when he gets a vigorous pushback.

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  12. Most of the rides at Disney aren’t violent roller coaster type rides. But Space Mountain should be avoided by some! Many of the rides are in boats that float through various story sets, with robots
    popping up here and there. Our kids loved The Pirates of the Caribbean, and the Jungle Cruise especially. And the Tiki Room show. They have different “lands”. Fantasyland is geared to the youngest kids - everything there is pretty gentle. Our sons also loved Frontierland, with forts, and riding mules through a “ desert” and going down a sort of roller coaster type ride into a “ gold mine”. ( Splash Mountain) etc. It’s too hard to describe all of Disneyland but it’s nothing like a Six Flags or whatever. Space Mountain in Tomorrowland is a camouflaged huge roller coaster ( in California it was called the Matterhorn and you could see it from the freeway long before getting there) , but I don’t think there are any Ferris wheel types of rides. It’s been at least 30 years since we were last there and apparently they have added a lot of new stuff.

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    1. Related to the Disney discussion, I read now that Florida will no longer require the usual vaccinations for school. I would think that would put a chill on people planning vacations to Disney World. You might bring home a souvenir you hadn't bargained for. My younger son and daughter in law took their girls to Disney World a couple of years ago. They had a good time. But I'm glad they're not going there now.

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    2. I’m wondering how that will go down with the snowbirds there - all the vulnerable old folk who may now be exposed to a lot more diseases than previously - out and about in restaurants , malls, churches etc? Will their immunity from childhood measles or chickenpox hold in their old age?

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    3. Most of the elderly in the local parish winter in Florida or Texas. They say no worries, according to Raber. They'll get their shots before heading down to Florida. They live in retirement communities with other oldsters from Michigan where they feel safe from whatever the Floridians are spreading in shops and restaurants. They also feel the virus has evolved into something weak enough not to kill anybody.

      The "mandates" for vaccines are pretty loose in any case. Parents can plead religious or moral objection and get them waived by public schools. Michigan mandates vaccination, but only about 86 percent of Michigan school children are up to date, below the 90+ percent needed for herd immunity. Many religious school waive vaccinations routinely. Only about half the kids at my son's Catholic school were immunized. And there's always home schooling where parents will not be bothered with mandates. As long as the CDC recommends them, kids can get them.

      I think RFKs moves--new vax guidelines, cuts to research, pulling the US out of WHO, etc--are probably going to hurt more people than lifting vaccine mandates. Those policies will actually affect vaccine availability and insurance coverage.

      Anyone's kids or grandkids anticipating a problem with getting covid shots? The Boy will have to pay out of pocket for one out of pocket, assuming Moderna and Pfizer make enough to go beyond us old people.

      RFK needs gone.

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    4. Definitely RFK needs to leave!
      I'm wondering if I will still be able to get the Novavax Covid shot that I got last January. I hope so, but if not I'll still go with the Moderna. CVS was the only place in town to carry Novavax..Not sure if you have to have a prescription for a Covid shot now. My doctor's office wasn't carrying them before, they told you to go to a pharmacy or county health.

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    5. I don’t think our kids are worried about it. Two live in California, one in Colorado. I did read that Colorado is one of the states where CVS and Walgreens are pulling back on making Covid vaccines available - apparently due to confusion about rules now. Virginia and DC are both on the list so I imagine the pharmacies here in Maryland next door will gain a lot of new customers. Our sons, their wives, and kids were all vaccinated back in pandemic days. They all also got Covid later as it evolved. I don’t think they are worried about Covid anymore. They vax their kids for measles, chicken pox, etc and those are still mandated for the public schools in California. I don’t know about the Catholic schools the California grands go to.The Colorado grands go to a public school. My atheist niece didn’t vaccinate her daughter for school ( Virginia) claiming a religious exemption. That niece is one of the liberal MAHAs, like the Marin moms.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/28/well/cvs-pharmacy-covid-vaccine-16-states.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

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    6. I sort of get why some parents don't want to get their kids immunized. Kids hate shots. They cry and throw a fit, I know I did as a kid. But someone has to be the adult in the room. I also hated getting sick with measles, chicken pox, rubella and mumps. They didn't have vaccines for those when I was a kid. My dad had never had mumps, he caught them from us and was very sick. But we were vaccinated against pertussis, diptheria, and tetanus, all of which can be fatal. The old section of the cemetery was full of graves of children and others who got those diseases. And polio. My mom made sure we got both the Salk polio shots, and the Sabin little sugar cubes.
      I have little patience for either liberal or conservative MAHAs. They need to walk through an old cemetery and count the graves of children.

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    7. "I have little patience for either liberal or conservative MAHAs. They need to walk through an old cemetery and count the graves of children."

      That is a great observation, Katherine.

      I just scratch my head (or silently scream, or like our dear friend Tom used to do, throw things at the television) regarding the phenomenon that people don't trust those in our society with expertise - in this case, public health officials. If you watch interviews of the CDC officials who were recently fired or who walked away from their jobs in protest, it becomes evident in about 2 minutes that these are highly trained people who have devoted their lives to protecting our health. And instead, huge chunks of people believe...what? Does their distrust of Big Pharma outweigh their trust in medicine?

      For most of my life, there was sort of a social consensus about what is true, and what isn't true. That seems to be unraveling now. It's scary as hell.

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    8. Re graves of children: I started looking at death records for my earliest Michigan ancestors. Lots of cholera and typhoid, especially deadly to kids under 5, thanks to contaminated water and unpasteurized milk. Both these diseases are rare now thanks to government standards and regulation. Meantime the MAHAs are pushing raw milk that helped spread those diseases.

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    9. My mom pasteurized our milk back in the 50s. She had a pasteurizer, an appliance that looked sort of like a crock pot. Basically it was a heating element with a thermostat and a buzzer that was set for 30 minutes. Of course nowadays they have flash pasteurizers that cost a lot more.

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    10. Gramma had one, same deal, but not sure if it had a timer/buzzer. My mom remembered her using it on the old farm, so 1930s. About half dozen typhoid outbreaks in Michigan, most linked to contaminated milk. Last outbreak was in 1921 in Cadillac, near where Gramma's family lived.

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