Within the last hour or so, President Trump and others have announced that law enforcement officers have apprehended the man who allegedly shot Charlie Kirk. The suspect's name is Tyler Robinson. Reporters are now scrambling to learn all they can about him. From what I am seeing, he has no previous criminal background. Officials have stated they believe he was acting alone.
Assuming they charge and try this young man, and assuming he is convicted, I would simply raise my voice here to beg the state: please don't execute him. The governor of Utah made a point in his initial press conference of stating, "We still have the death penalty in the State of Utah."
Many politicians and public figures from both left and right have said wise and true things since Kirk's assassination: that violence is never the answer; that it is not the way we solve problems in the United States. Can we not say the same about the death penalty? It comes across as an act of violent vengeance, rather than a meting out of justice.
State of Utah: please don't execute Tyler Robinson.
I'll add my voice to everything you said, but Trump says the trial should be tomorrow "like in China." Trump and Kirk himself have favored public executions, so hoping supporters don't agitate for that as some kind of fitting retribution.
ReplyDeleteAlso: Despite Gov Cox's reiteration of Utah's death penalty, he is also calling for more measured rhetoric. He deserves some credit for this effort reported by the Wa Post:
ReplyDeleteAs the 2023-2024 chair of the National Governors Association, Cox launched an initiative called “Disagree Better,” which championed civil debate that leads to solutions and reduces political polarization.
Next week, he is scheduled to appear alongside New Mexico Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham, a Democrat, at the University of Notre Dame for a fireside chat on how “Western state pragmatism” can serve as a model for reducing divisions.
Cox’s work on “Disagree Better” was meaningful, Lujan Grisham told The Washington Post. “I think he really tried to break through with both Democrats and Republicans,” she said, “and I’m a little disappointed that all of us didn’t do more to support his efforts. I love working with him.”
I've also heard that about him, and I admire it.
DeleteFWIW, I think we Catholics are called to be bridge builders. I associate it closely with the Eucharist.
It's a good theme for clergy of all flavors, even the ones who offer "fake" Communion. As a lifelong bridge-burner, back-talker, rule-breaker, snap-judger, and grudge-holder, it's certainly something I need to hear more.
DeleteJim, I agree with you and Jean, please don't execute him.
ReplyDeleteI knew little or nothing about Charlie Kirk prior to his murder.
What I am finding out is that there are both positive and some very negative things. The positives are that he seems to have been a good family man, and a practicing Christian (with some major flaws). The Democrats could learn from his style of engagement, in personally meeting and discussing with people.
The negatives are, wow, some pretty bad racism, particularly as regards black women, because he *knew* that any of them who were judges or anything like that were DEI appointments because they weren't smart enough to get there any other way and are occupying positions which rightly belong to white men. And everybody knows white men only get in their positions by intrinsic merit. I'll stop there because it's inappropriate to speak ill of the dead.
I am sincerely praying for the happy repose of his soul and comfort to his family. Bishop Barron has him already in heaven but last I checked Catholic belief was still that even the best of us might have time in purgatory.
I’m in a very impatient mood today. Sorry, but I am venting here. This group is patient and let me.
DeleteI’m sick of hearing from, and, about Robert Barron. Since he now seems to be a hero to most Catholics it’s increasingly unlikely that I will ever spend time in a Catholic parish again. They are mostly MAGA dominated, from the rectory to the people in the pews. Including all the programs in local Catholic parishes that use Barron’s stuff.
I am opposed to the death penalty - period. But conservatives aren’t - they fight to preserve it, including the so called “ pro- lifers “.
It’s doubtful that the shooter will be allowed to live in either a mental health facility or a prison.
I don't think I have heard Barron mentioned on the parish level. Seems like he is one of those very online presences. Pope Francis didn't promote him to cardinal, sent him to a smaller diocese in Wisconsin. I don't see Pope Leo giving him a red hat, either. Seems like he let a little fame go to his head.
DeleteUnfortunately it seems likely that the deciding factor on whether Tyler Robinson gets the death penalty is if he left any writings or videos out there that could be construed as "leftist". I'm praying that all they will find is a bunch of mentally ill ramblings.
Barron’s stuff is used in adult Ed at the local Catholic parishes that we once attended. It’s been several years, but one of the last planning meetings I attended ( as a guest, not a member) at our old parish the group members were gushing about how great Barron is and that they were ordering more Word on Fire videos. This was sometime in the pre- Covid period. I read the bulletins online - Barron is still big in my former parishes.
DeleteIn the little I’ve read about the shooter, he was anti- fascist, and a video gamer. He etched his bullets with anti- fascist slogans and apparently with symbols used in video gaming. I’m wondering where he learned to shoot. A lot of comments online say that he was as skilled as a professional sniper. Maybe, or maybe he just got “lucky”. Lousy description but it conveys the idea. Is being anti- fascist the same as “ leftist”? Since many in the MAGA world apparently admire some fascists of history, including even Hitler these days, then anyone opposing fascism would be leftist. Of course he’s mentally ill. But is he the “ right” kind of mentally ill.
Barron's Word on Fire ministry had a multi-part video series that was used, once I think, by our parish faith formation team for an adult series. I believe the same series has been telecast on our local Chicago PBS station, probably more than once. It's sort of Sunday-afternoon broadcast fare for them.
DeleteFWIW, the same adult faith formation team now shows each season of The Chosen as it's released. It's the most well-attended series they've ever done.
I've probably mentioned before: Barron gave a keynote address once to the Chicago deacons, a number of years ago now. I found him quite likeable. Smart, articulate, energetic, full of good humor. Didn't come across as a culture warrior.
I''ve probably also mentioned: when I was in formation, the program used one of his books as a text book. I believe it was "And Now I See: A Theology of Transformation". It was sort of vintage Barron, in that he used the arts - in this case, literature - as a portal to the divine. I remember he used a William Faulkner short story, The Bear, as a point of departure for one chapter.
I get the idea that Barron has changed in the past few years. Like I was saying, maybe a little fame went to his head.
DeleteThe arts as a portal to the divine is good, we can be inspired by great works of art and literature. But I don't know that I think it's really catechesis. Seems like The Chosen comes closer. Barron' works could be an effective study aid.
I am really disappointed in how he has cozied up to Trump and MAGA world.
Update - According to unidentified Utah sources, the shooter was to the right of Kirk, was a fan of Nick Fuentes, and thought Charlie Kirk wasn’t radical enough. Stay tuned. TRUMP,
Deleteand his fans won’t like this if it’s true.
It's almost a relief to find out he wasn't a "leftist". Maybe they will ease up on that narrative. I suppose it is too much to hope for that MAGA will examine their own responsibility in causing this latest political violence.
DeleteThe connection with Nick Fuentes appears to be pretty vague, related to gaming.
DeleteThere’s really nothing that I can find online that provides credible information about his political views or motive. But he’s Probably not leftist. Apparently gave someone the impression that he wasn’t a fan of Kirk, but no real information available so far to the public.
MAGA and Trump are not easing up, they’re fanning the flames.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/charlie-kirk-tyler-robinson-memes-meaning
I haven't been able to follow the developments closely today, but it's possible we won't have a clear idea of his motives for weeks or even months - perhaps not ever. That's how it has been regarding Thomas Matthew Crooks, the young man who tried to shoot President Trump from a rooftop - an incident with striking parallels to this one.
DeletePost on local parish site asking for prayers for Kirk. I'm happy to pray for anybody. I've probably said more prayers for Donald Trump than any other public figure. But the posts go on to extol Kirk as a model Catholic, dad, and patriot, and that's disheartening.
ReplyDeleteDisheartening is putting it mildly.
DeleteI didn't think he was Catholic; some kind of evangelical?
DeleteYou're right. Maybe they're assuming Kirk was Catholic b/c his wife is. I dug a little, and some Catholic sites style him as a "friend to Catholicism" because he is anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-trans.
DeleteHe was an Evangelical. He may have been Catholic-curious via his wife; and apparently he recognized an affinity with Catholics for various causes that were important to him, such as being pro-life. According to JD Vance, the two of them discussed and debated religion and theology.
DeleteBut in my view, Kirk's whole "aura" was that of an Evangelical: a young, energetic, rather handsome, ambitious, entrepreneurial type. If he hadn't been such a shooting star in political advocacy, he might have become a church planter - a mega-church founder.
Jean - “… some Catholic sites style him as a "friend to Catholicism" because he is anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-trans.”
DeleteSad isn’t it. He’s seen as a friend to Catholicism NOT because the Catholic Church is pro- helping the poor, caring for the sick, feeding the hungry, welcoming the stranger or loving your neighbor but because it is “anti” a whole bunch of things.
What exactly does the RCC really stand for?
Jim, you're right about that certain type of evangelical aura. The whole thing about "male headship". How any woman would be attracted to anyone who spouted that is beyond me. My evangelical relatives weren't even on board with that kind of stuff.
DeleteI can totally see Charlie Kirk being head of a mega-church.
There's a lot of yearning in some circles for men to be protectors and providers, and for women to be nurturers and carers. When everybody's clear on their roles, life is easier, and there are Bible verses that evangelicals can cherry-pick claim this set-up is God's plan.
DeleteIt's a response, I think to the very real stressors in family life. If it works for some marriages, fine.
But applying these roles to society generally as some kind of return to traditional values leads to gender discrimination, the good old boy network, wage inequality, etc.
Katherine, my late sister in law, an evangelical who was a Catholic until sometime in her 40s, totally bought into the whole male headship thing, telling me it was God’s plan. But the RCC actually teaches much the same thing with its definition of “complementarity”. JPII was big on male headship in the marriage and in the church. He didn’t use that term - used loftier sounding Vaticanese - but he taught pretty much the same concepts. As of course did Benedict . Even Francis never shook it off although he made a little progress in the right direction before he died.
DeleteYeah, "complementarity". I never got on board with the Theology of the Body thing. It always sounded like celibate men made it up. Haven't heard them talk about it much lately.
DeleteKatherine, the church’s teaching on complementarity is big part of the church’s excuse for denying a sacrament to women just because they are female.
DeleteI looked up more about Kirk - he was a Christian nationalist who did not believe in the separation of church and state, but wanted to make Christianity the official state religion.
His dox data base of college professors is a rather horrendous innovation on his part. The more I read about him, the worse it gets. Nobody should be killed for their political views, but it would be good for the nation if some of his views hit the dustbin. Sadly that won’t happen.
So - when will the right wing politicians, especially trump, who were calling for attacks on Democrats apologize? Not holding my breath for that.
I don't think that it's clear what Robinson's ideology was, though leftist influencers have been quick to latch onto rumors and hearsay and to make hay off the rumors that he is to the right of Kirk.
DeleteMAGA has backed off any further incendiary tirades for now, though I expect that if Robinson turns out to be a neo-Nazi, they'll figure out a way to blame Democrats for pushing a good kid into the the hands of some bad people.
As for Robinson's ideology, when did any political assassin have an ideology that made much sense: Ted Kaczynski, Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh, Vance Boelter, John Wilkes Booth, Charles Manson ... all nuts. Mostly they just have some half-baked grievance and a belief that their actions will catalyze some grand cause. It never does.
Agree - his ideology is unclear. The closest thing I’ve read to a motive was vague - that he and a relative had discussed Kirk at dinner or something, and neither liked Kirk. Why they didn’t like him has yet to be revealed, but the implication was that Kirk wasn’t radical enough on the alt- right side.
DeleteI’m tired.
Interesting post on FB shared by a friend from college days
Delete“ Ok, listen up people. Here goes.
Maybe I'm the last one to figure this out, but it came as a shock. I had a huge revelation thanks to my teenage daughter on Wednesday evening. This was the day that Charlie Kirk was assassinated.
It's important to know that like most kids her age, she doesn't appear to know much about - or care much about - politics. I'm a news and political junky, so some of that must rub off on her, but my guess is not much. It's the same with most of her friends. She is aware of issues that are important to her and her friends, for example, LGBTQ2S+ rights.
It's also important to know that although of course I know who Charlie Kirk was and what he was about, I never paid any attention to him at all. I probably had seen him briefly in media stories but likely would not have recognized him and may never have heard his voice. I never saw anything that he produced in social media. I had imagined him to be some kind of a podcaster or something. I regularly heard references to him by political commentators on the sorts of shows I watch and listen to. The main thing that stuck with me was that he was popular with the youth - with some youth.
Anyway, so I was driving with my daughter that night and I said something like "A terrible thing happened in the US today and you should know about it." I assumed she had never heard of Charlie Kirk before. I was shocked when she said not only did she know about it, but she and her friends all saw it, and what's more, they know all about who he - quite well; quite thoroughly. They all know him very well.
So, how is it that these kids know all about Charlie Kirk when they otherwise are not that politically engaged or interested and don't even live in the same country as him? And that's when I put 2 and 2 together.
The truism that "Charlie Kirk is popular with youth" is a total falsehood. That's not it at all. Of course, he's popular with some; and he's extremely unpopular with others. But the real truth is that they all know who he is. They know who he is because he was actually part of a massive machine, a massive media machine funded in the tens, perhaps hundreds, of millions of dollars. What happens is that his image, what he espouses, and all that stuff, is constantly churned out and fed to kids on social media in the form of "reels," short bits that make a point and then move on. The reels cascade through cell phones all throughout North America. I assume most of my FB friends have seen them.
Interestingly, in my case, and probably the cases of most of my friends, due to the fine-tuning of the algorithms, I have never seen a Charlie Kirk reel. I've seen reels. Although I'm not addicted to them, I've seen quite a few. Mine are usually made up of such things as an orphaned donkey who is befriended by a house cat and a chicken, and then they all snuggle together; scantily clad young Asian women hitting golf balls on the driving range; and delicious one-pan stove-top dishes that I simply must make tonight. I get clips from old Johnny Carson interviews of Sid Caesar, profound insights from Toni Morrison, and enticing invitations to visit museums around the world. The situation is decidedly different for the younguns.…”
…. But here's the crux - the kids don't choose to see the Charlie Kirk memes. They just show up in their reels. Constantly. Countlessly. And they have completely colonized their imaginations. It's not so much a matter of like him, hate him, agree with him, or disagree with him. It's a matter that he has saturated the online media landscape to the extent that his utter ubiquity is unavoidable.
DeleteThe result of this is that we must recognize that digital culture is far beyong the issue of volition. There is no agency left when you can't govern what comes through your feed. This is underscored by the fact that it is pretty much all kids that are receiving this and it is all the time. Thus, it is not the case that Charlie Kirk is or was "popular" with the youth, because that would presuppose agency. There is no agency here. It's an unimaginably well-funded enterprise to completely dominate the political discourse, and it has succeeded.
The governor of Utah has told us to put down our phones and touch the grass, although he was too much of a coward to condemn Trump, the chief hate-monger who pinned this heinous crime on Democrats with no evidence to support it. But there is something to what he says about the urgent need to cleanse our social system of this toxicity. The problem is that that is not going to happen.
The upshot is the Charlie Kirk phenomenon represents a new form of political discourse, a new dimension in fact. Whether or not he was an asshole coupled with the spectrum of reactions to his death and who he was is totally beside the point. The point is that his style of dissemination has completely infected the youth in North America. Since I never paid attention to it, I didn't see what it was. It is, in fact, like another universe layered on top of the one in which we live.
Okay, I kinda get what your friend is saying. But reels are incapable of just pouring stuff into our brains, or the brains of kids, and taking over our thoughts. We might be more inclined to click and watch, and "like" something as young people, if it fits in with what our family and friends believe, like, or are interested in. But at some point we decide what our own values are. I very early on decided that I didn't agree with all the politics of my family. I think most people are capable of at least some critical thought. If they watch a lot of "Groyper" stuff it probably is because they like and agree with it, at least somewhat. I didn't know what Groyper was until this week. It is totally repellent.
DeleteWell, my friend didn’t write this. She shared it on FB. I don’t know if she knows the author. Probably not because I think he’s Canadian. I found it interesting primarily because of the information about the millions of $ poured into building up Kirk’s influence. This was an organized assault to lure in the young and keep their elders pretty clueless. It worked with young men apparently. Also I was interested in the spotlight the author put on the reality that the young adults are immersed in social media for their views of the world and we old folk really don’t know what they are being fed. It’s hard to counter the lies if we don’t even know what they are consuming. I have no interest in signing up for instagram, TikTok, or X so I guess I’m being willfully ignorant. The crux of his argument is this and it’s worth thinking about. I am not as optimistic as you about people having much in the way of critical thinking skills.
Delete“ The result of this is that we must recognize that digital culture is far beyong the issue of volition. There is no agency left when you can't govern what comes through your feed. This is underscored by the fact that it is pretty much all kids that are receiving this and it is all the time. Thus, it is not the case that Charlie Kirk is or was "popular" with the youth, because that would presuppose agency. There is no agency here. It's an unimaginably well-funded enterprise to completely dominate the political discourse, and it has succeeded.”
Anyway…
People need to learn a little "custody of the eyes". If they consume a steady diet of nothing but junk food it isn't good for their bodies. Same goes for their brains.
DeleteDoesn't what you click on govern what comes through your feed to an extent?
DeleteTo a certain extent I think that the algorithm learns. Clicking on reels is fatal. I have found that if I click on the cute animal reel or whatever then I am overwhelmed with reels. So then I have to deliberately X out every new reel that shows up without opening it and with time and consistency they gradually appear less frequently. I don’t think they ever completely disappear. Whenever I think I’ve finally won the war a new one pops up. Same with ads. I X every one. Lately FB has been tossing out random people who are apparently trying to attract followers because they are trying to be bloggers. Very tedious trying to rid my feed of this stuff. But I keep up with a few old friends on FB and sometimes an interesting or humorous “share” meme comes up. Young people left FB years ago.
DeleteAI is based on two things.
DeleteThe algorithm is based on your personal history, it gives you what you have clicked on before, and therefore presumably like.
However, the algorithm is also based on your characteristic such as age (e.g. young), religion (e.g. Catholic) politics (e.g. MAGA), it will push your way things that advertisers want to give you.
For example, I get YouTube videos that have to do with things that I am interested in, e.g. Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican services. However, I also get traditional Catholic stuff although I have never clicked on any of it, e.g. all sorts of weird stuff about Pope Leo, e.g. he has abolished Sunday Mass obligation, or did something nasty to Bishop Barron. Both of those are extremely unlikely so I did not click on them. But I do have a pretty good idea of some of the weird stuff that is circulating in extremely conservative Catholic circles even though I have never clicked on any of it. I am sure the same thing happens among young people with regard to extreme political viewpoints although they are apolitical. They get the "reel" just because they are young.
Good explanation Jack. I don’t click on many things, but when I do the algorithm gets a bit confused. So it gives you Catholic stuff, but isn’t able to distinguish the finer points. It gives me “suggestions“ for groups that include Catholic, Episcopalian, and Lutheran. No idea why Lutheran. I’m not a member of any religious groups so I presume it tracks my non-FB searches to come up with those. I don’t click on those. I joined a FB group on living in France before my husband’s fall, so get fre
Deleteclicked too soon. I get frequent France related suggestions. No direct political stuff - I see what friends share. Those who share aren’t MAGA so I don’t see any MAGA stuff - just occasionally the comments of my friends’ MAGA friends on the anti- MAGA stuff they share.. my friends are old and so are their MAGA friends so the name Charlie Kirk never came up. My eldest sister used to put up MAGA memes on FB. We got into some pretty fiery disagreements, especially because I would fact-check the claims with citations. She doesn’t do it anymore so neither do I. I do share stuff I agree with not memes - usually Heather Cox Richardson, who is among Kirk’s targets on his “ report and get fired the professor” database) on my page, primarily as a way to communicate with my MAGA family members. We don’t communicate directly anymore. My brother in law is in bad shape. He’s 94 and his doctor has given him a few months because of stage 4 cancer. It will take a strong assist from a saint from above for me to grit my teeth and go to his funeral mass and see family. He is among the worst trumpers I know.
DeleteYes, good explanation, Jack.
DeleteI occasionally get Lutheran stuff, I think because I click on J.S. Bach and other north German Baroque music. Those composers tend to have been Lutherans, though they did compose some music used by Catholics. I get a lot of Renaissance pipe organs.
I also get Hawaii stuff because I have clicked on some of it.
The main reason I am on FB is to keep up with what friends and family post. I am not interested when they post political stuff, and I go on past it, sometimes I snooze it for 30 days. Which is probably why the algorithm has decided I'm no longer interested in the people, which isn't true. So I have to actively search for them.
I'm VERY skeptical that these long essays by "friends of friends" are even written by real people. There are bots that look for key words in your posts that generate AI responses by fake users set up to look like people. They're meant to sound sincere and plausible, and get you to "friend" the fake OP. Then they try to sell you something, influence you, or harvest your data bc you fit a demographic.
DeleteThere are also bots that look for photos of elderly ladies. Cat-fishers then post something like "I loved your post! I hope you don't mind me responding. Could we be friends?" Usually the response has a profile pic of a nice-looking elderly man in a military or outdoor setting. My 90-year-old auntie gets these a lot. Different pics, same message.
When I had a FB page for my cancer group, I was inundated with fakers asking for money to pay for treatment or trying to sell quack cures. Most posed as patients. I've spotted some of these people on legit cancer sites and alerted the organizations.
I don't "friend" anybody on FB and haven't for years, tho I do look at the municipal page and a couple of knitting groups. But if I want to make friends, I'll do it IRL. I keep in touch w family by text or snail mail.
Young people have a MUCH better nose for spotting fake users and bot-generated responses on social media than any of us.
I have never accepted a friend request from someone I don’t know personally. I don’t ever request to be a friend of one of my friends friends (got that? ). I have very tight security controls so I never get the “won’t you be my friend” comments. I never get comments from people I don’t know. I don’t allow sharing my posts - only “ friends” can see my posts - not “ friends of friends” so it’s pretty limited. I do t put photos of myself my bus or our grandchildren on FB. Only scenic stuff basically. No dogs or cats because we no longer have a pet. So the post about Charlie Kirk that my friend posted is not someone who can find me - I didn’t share it, nor comment on it. My eldest sister was a very successful real estate agent. Very socia, and she and her husband were both very involved with their parish. She has hundreds of FB “ friends”. I have fewer than 100, including my immediate and extended family. My college friend who posted the Charlie Kirk post that I copied here tells me that at 79 and not terribly mobile these days, she can’t go to protests etc. she posts on FB and, like you, sends messages to her legislators, national, state and local ( she lives in Sacramento). She’s been pushing me to get an app that you can set up with the politicians contact information and send the messages to multiple at once. She says they keep track of Yay or Nay, which I know they always do in Congressional offices. I know that you send messages too. I haven’t bothered because Maryland is deep blue - only one member of the congressional delegation is a Republican. She tells me to do it anyway - to get the app. She grew up in a big Catholic family ( 7 kids), Catholic schools all the way through grad school, but left. Eventually she got an MDiv and was the pastor of a UCC parish - UCC churches tend to be liberal and activist. She has a big FB following because of her years as a pastor and all of her contacts with other clergy.
DeleteYah, no offense about your specific share from FB. Not trying to make anybody defensive.
DeleteIMO, you're only as private and secure as the privacy settings of all your friends and their friends.
But I am extra cautious. Because of limited mobility, I have to do some business online, and as tech becomes more sophisticated, I just don't want to have a big presence out there to increase chances of getting hacked.
I avoid apps. I have sent emails thru my legislators' Web pages if something is pressing, but will continue with snail mail or a phone call.
When I want to share something from FB to someone I know well, I copy it and send it in email, as I copied and pasted here, removing the names of my friend and her friend that she shared it from.
DeleteMy FB page is pretty secure - I don’t click on ads or anything else. I get very few ads. Mostly FB suggestions for groups. So I get a lot of suggestions for France related groups. I don’t get religious stuff nor political stuff directly - I see that stuff on my friend’s’ timelines. And FB group suggestions. My information can only be seen by “ me”. Other stuff is just my friends, not friends of friends. I don’t get those catfishing comments you mentioned - no men, old or otherwise trying to pick me up! - and I never ran an FB information page open to the world . My account has never been hacked either as far as I know.
I do almost all of our financial business online - pay bills, banking etc. So far it’s been safer than snail mail. I get other peoples mail all the time. Ours has been lost ( I have Informed delivery and know what should arrive), and a friend had a credit card payment stolen from her mailbox. She found out when her bank called her to tell her that someone had stolen the check from her mailbox, erased the name of the credit card company (did a lousy job fortunately), written in her own name, and had tried to cash it. The same woman had done it before with other victims but this time she was caught.
I also like that my online payments and other transactions are immediately responded to with confirmation emails.
I'm probably not as secure on FB as I should be. I never share political stuff, but occasionally share religious posts. I have commented on other people's posts and that is where I get the smarmy friend requests (in the comments )from some rando guy with a fake name who says how beautiful I am. I just delete and move on.
DeleteThe art club I belong to has a private FB page and members often share pictures that they did, or videos from people who have a youtube page.
I think the private groups on FB are pretty secure. I’ve never gotten any fake friend requests or comments as a result of the Americans in France group that I have belonged to since before Covid. It’s pretty tightly managed I think by the administrator. But I also do have very tight security settings.
DeleteAs far as I can tell, the best FB security setting is not to be on it. Now that I’ve purchased a used truck to be picked up tomorrow, I have no more use for FB marketplace, which didn’t help me anyway. And I won’t see any more posts from my relatives lionizing this fellow who definitely didn’t work to make the world a better place. I’m sure that whatever facts come out about the killer, it won’t affect the MAGA a priori conclusion that Trump is their messiah.
DeleteMore on Kirk - not a very nice guy.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/13/opinion/charlie-kirk-assassination.html?unlocked_article_code=1.l08.zCnB.EVPRA4FAn32B&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
Definitely not sounding like a nice guy. I wonder if some of the people who are canonizing him right now are aware of the material he has put out there. Some of his media stuff may be performative, but isn't that a problem in itself?
DeleteAbout Tyler Robinson, his radicalization in a relatively short time reminds me of other instances of radicalization. Such as the Americans or Europeans a few years ago who got involved with ISIS from being online. Or Q-Anon, which everyone should have known was a hoax. Ashli Babbit appears to have been taken in by that type of radicalization as well.
From what I’ve read Q- Anon still has fans in Congress. Has it disappeared? The honoring of Ashli Babbit is another travesty.
DeleteThe family he grew up in was apparently a stable, very conservative, Mormon ( I believe) family. Military and law enforcement members. According to his grandmother the whole family is die- hard MAGA. Not a surprise . The mom posted photos on social media at some point of the shooter as a child visiting a relative in the military, very excited at handling the guns ( I presume without ammunition. Hopefully ) . Both parents own guns, legally registered, and apparently were hunters. But it seems the son went from right- wing to alt- right extremist, probably from the gaming.
While I am as eager as anybody else to find out Tyler Robinson's "motive" (if that has any clear meaning under the circumstances), I can't see that it will make any significant difference. The MAGA world will continue to claim the "far left" is responsible. And if this were a sane world, it wouldn't make any difference to anybody what Robinson's politics were. He is not an agent or representative of any political movement that I am aware of.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that the left (of which I am definitely a member) desperately wants him to be of the right. I understand, but I am beginning to think the information about the "romantic partner," a roommate named Lance Twiggs, who is transitioning from male to female (Luna Twiggs), just doesn't fit with the far right. It seems quite possible to me that Robinson was offended by Charlie Kirk's condemnations of trans people. An AI search gave me the following: Based on his numerous public statements and actions, Charlie Kirk was strongly anti-transgender. His rhetoric and his work with the organization Turning Point USA were widely criticized for promoting anti-LGBTQ+ and anti-transgender views.
The "legacy media" seem very reluctant to criticize any of Charlie Kirk's numerous reprehensible views. They have basically canonized him, from what I have seen. I don't see how this turns out to be another boost for Trump.
P.S. I oppose the death penalty, so consequently I agree it should not be imposed here. I think that Trump calling for the death penalty before there was even a suspect in hand would, in the good old days, have been considered reprehensible and would have called into question the right of anyone accused to get a fair trial.
DeleteOf course Trump has always admired dictators who could just execute people if they wanted to. But it seems like Trump has pulled back from that rhetoric now that it appears that Robinson was closer to being alt-right than left. But he definitely would not care two figs about the accused getting a fair trial.
DeleteIt's unclear that the roommate was a romantic partner rather than just someone that he shared rent with.
Of course the legacy media is being held (or is holding themselves) to a stricter standard than the MAGA world media.
The latest from Cox is “ leftist”, without details, apparently because of the transitioning partner, so David is probably right. The right is calling for war against liberals. I don’t recall that the left called for war against the right after any of the many publicized murders or attacks on Democrats, including the Minnesota murders, or the attempted murder of Shapiro and his family.
DeleteA year or so ago Kirk came out for death penalty for all homicides without exception. He felt they should be televised and that children should be exposed to these televised executions at some age. The panel he was talking with thought 12 would be a good age. Kirk thought making children watch televised executions would prevent some kids from becoming murderers. Studies have indicated that the death penalty does-not actually reduce murders, but who cares about facts.
Like David, I oppose the death penalty completely. Gov Cox announced that the state would pursue it in this case.
Speaking of the death penalty . . .
DeleteFox & Friends host apologizes for saying mentally ill homeless people should be killed
By Reuters
Sept 14 (Reuters) - A host for the conservative Fox & Friends talk show apologized on Sunday for stating that homeless mentally ill people should be given lethal injections, saying his remark had been "extremely callous."
The comment by Brian Kilmeade triggered widespread criticism.
During a Wednesday segment about the murder of a Ukrainian woman in North Carolina, Kilmeade's co-host Lawrence Jones said mentally ill homeless people should accept treatment programs or be jailed. Kilmeade added: "Or, involuntary lethal injection - or something. Just kill them."
A 34-year-old man with a long criminal record has been charged with the woman's murder. His mother told local television that she previously had him involuntarily committed and that he was diagnosed with schizophrenia.
"I apologize for that extremely callous remark," Kilmeade said on air.
"I am obviously aware that not all mentally ill, homeless people act as the perpetrator did in North Carolina, and that so many homeless people deserve our empathy and compassion."
Fox & Friends airs on Fox News, which did not respond immediately to a request for comment.
I learned about the transitioning gay roommate this morning on ABC's This Week, when Utah Gov. Spencer Cox announced it during an interview. Cox linked Robinson romantically to the roommate. He also stated that the roommate is aghast at what Robinson has (allegedly) done, and said the roommate is cooperating with the investigation.
DeleteCox didn't explicitly say, "...and so Robinson killed Kirk for the latter's anti-trans rhetoric ", but I'd wager that thousands of viewers connected those dots on their own.
I'll say it again: Political assassins have no ideology that makes any sense. Most of them have a tenuous hold on reality, and they think blowing somebody to smithereens will touch off some kind of awakening. Never works out that way. Whatever story eventually emerges about Tyler Robinson won't turn out to be an indictment of drag queen story hours, Bernie Sanders, FOX News, Steve Bannon or anything or anybody on left or right. It will turn out to be someone who is delusional, angry, and had easy access to a gun.
DeleteYou are correct, Jean. The biggest problem is easy access to guns. The young neo- nazi who killed my niece and her husband used his mother’s gun. Robinson apparently bought his own guns legally. That seems to happen fairly often - the guns are bought legally. So how does society militate against this?
DeletePerhaps this could be filed under, "no ideology that makes any sense": this is one explanation of the inscriptions on the unfired bullet casings in the gun that was recovered (this is from Fox LiveNow):
Delete""Notices, bulges, OwO what's this?" – This is a Gen Z phrase used in the "furry community." The OwO is meant to mimic a wide-eyed face emoji.
""Hey fascist! Catch!" – This appears to be a reference to the Helldivers 2 video game. The arrows are the sequence of controller moves that allows the player to drop bombs.
""Oh Bella, ciao, bella, ciao Bella ciao ciao ciao." – "Bella Ciao" is an Italian folk song and anti-fascist resistance anthem. AI edits of Trump singing it have been widely shared on social media.
""If you read this, you are gay LMAO" – Conspiracy videos accusing Trump and his allies of being secretly gay have also been shared on TikTok. "
If those are puzzle pieces, I guess I'm not seeing a way of fitting them together that adds up to "leftist". Maybe if you use a hammer to try to force them together in a certain order or something.
Extremely callous. I missed that earlier. The right wing is beyond callous at this point.
DeleteI agree with Jean that "political assassins have no ideology that makes any sense". And "It will turn out to be someone who is delusional, angry, and had easy access to a gun."
DeleteI just don’t think we can solve our gun problem without first addressing the violence and disorder that the US instigates and performs throughout the world. How can we ever be peaceable while supporting an outright podcasted genocide, which is only one example? H. Rap Brown said that violence was as American as cherry pie (repeated as “apple pie). It is hard to project violence throughout the world without it eventually coming home.
DeleteViolence is not the American ideal, but it is, sadly, what Americans have often resorted to since before the Revolution. Not sure how, when we're happy to shoot people in our own "family," we can be expected to empathize with families thousands of miles away. I don't see us joining hands and singing Kumbaya around the national campfire anytime soon.
DeleteFWIW - our Prayers of the Faithful today, as scripted, didn't include a prayer for Kirk, but one of our priests added one extemporaneously.
ReplyDeleteWe usually have a petition for "an end to hatred, terrorism, and violence" included in our Prayers of the Faithful. They didn't include Kirk by name, but he and other victims would be included by implication. At the time of the Minneapolis school shooting the victims and families were specifically mentioned in the petitions.
DeleteI didn’t know who Kirk was before his assassination. But, it must be noted that Kirk was starting to criticize Israeli domination of our politicians. Greyzone journalist Max Blumenthal even claims Kirk was being pressured by his base to go in this direction. He also claims Netanyahu offered financial support to Kirk which he refused. Proving motivation does not prove Mossad involvement but it certainly should not be dismissed. Greyzone journalist Max Blumenthal is interviewed in Chris Hedges’ YouTube podcast.
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/Uf7zr5Thz64?feature=shared
Looks like Kash Patel, another incompetent Trump appointee, got hammered by Sen Durbin and others over jumping the gun on the Kirk assassin arrest. This segued into a lot of questions about his FBI methods and priorities.
ReplyDeleteGood!
Delete"another incompetent Trump appointee"
DeleteA friend of mine sees the biggest difference between Trump's first and second terms as, This time he is prioritizing loyalty over competence. I happen to think that's deplorable, but in the locker room of business executives (and elected officials), he's very far from alone in this. Cronyism probably is as old as humanity.
The civil service tradition in the US was instituted specifically to drive a stake through the heart of its predecessor, which was the so-called spoils system. Another term for which is cronyism.