A brief conversation after mass today left both of us unsatisfied.
I had a busy Sunday today. I served as deacon at two morning masses. In the 40 minutes or so of free time between finishing up the first mass and getting ready for the second mass, I dashed over to the parish gymnasium to set up my electronic keyboard and amp. I'm the band director for a 30-minute musical performance our little parish-based community theatre is putting on next month for our parish's 60th anniversary celebration. Today the sound engineer was coming to do a sound check (the sound system was the bane of last year's production), and I had strict instructions that all the band members, including me, should be set up and ready to play at 1 pm sharp. The afternoon's schedule called for 30 minutes with the sound engineer, followed by two hours of rehearsal with the cast and band.
My second scheduled mass would end, best case, by 12:30 pm, which meant I had (best case) 30 minutes to be available to exiting mass-goers, get out of my vestments, come up with some lunch, get over to the gym, and be available to band members before the sound check. I packed myself a lunch for today, something I don't think I've done in two decades.
I'm sharing all this detail of my schedule to help explain my frame of mind after the second mass ended. After spending an appropriate but not ample amount of time near the church doors as people exited (if I still wore a wrist watch, I would have been glancing at it), I hustled into the sacristy, shed my vestments, and started on my way to the gymnasium. Before I could make the doorway to the parking lot, a young man hurried up behind me and asked if he could speak with me. I suppose I could have said, "No, sorry, too busy", but I don't like it when clergy brush people off that directly - so I guess I tried to brush him off more indirectly. Here is our dialogue, as best as I can recall it:
YOUNG MAN: Can I ask you a question?
ME: Sure.
YM: What do you think of our country's immigration policies?
ME: Well, it's complicated.
YM: Do you think it's wrong to deport immigrants who are here illegally, like President Trump is doing?
ME: Like I said, it's complicated.
YM: It's really not complicated. They are here illegally. If they get caught, they should be deported. Right?
ME: Um, sorry, I've got to go.
YM: Because you said a Prayer of the Faithful today that made is sound like you disagree with that.
ME: Uh...
YM: I think that was kind of an underhanded shot at Trump, when you said that we should welcome immigrants like Abraham and Elizabeth were welcomed. Is that what you think?
ME: Uh, I don't actually write those, they're in a script and I read them. You should talk to the parish office if you have comments about those prayers.
YM: Oh, sorry, I thought you wrote them yourself.
ME: Sorry, I really have to run. God bless.
And he strode off, unsatisfied, as most people are who speak with me after mass about something I said, truly or allegedly, during mass which touched a political or culture-war nerve.
Here is the actual text of the petition in question:
For immigrants, refugees, and all those trying to make a home in a foreign land, may they be welcomed as Abraham and Sarah were many generations ago, let us pray to the Lord.
It was interesting that he fastened on Abraham and Sarah. (He said Elizabeth, but I knew whom he meant.) Our petitions often reference the Sunday readings, so tonight I took a look at today's readings, because I couldn't recall a reference to Abraham and Sarah in them. And in fact, there wasn't one. But somehow, they ended up being mentioned in this petition.
I confess I don't know who composes our prayers of the faithful. It's someone on the parish staff, but I don't know who. You may know there are liturgy-helper references available with pre-written petitions, and this one smacks of one of those. And yes, Abraham and Sarah could be described as immigrants or refugees. Abraham was called from his homeland by God. And they spent time in Egypt during a famine. I don't think that arc of their life story is particularly well-known by Catholics (or maybe it's just me), so I don't know what inspired whoever composed that petition to mention them.
At any rate, this guy heard me read the petition, and what he really heard was, "That deacon doesn't like President Trump!". Which happens to be true, but it's not something I regularly express at church. To be sure, I did preach something a few months ago that included some criticism of our current deportation policy. As I think I mentioned in the comments to that post, that section of the homily generated some heated responses from a few parishioners. But today's young man didn't say anything to me about it at the time - in fact, until today, I don't believe I had ever seen him before.
If I had had the time, and both of us had been in the right frame of mind to engage in a good-faith conversation, I would have explained to him that the church has its own intellectual and teaching tradition, which isn't always well-aligned with American politics; and that the petition in question says nothing about President Trump or his policies or the United States. The petition is a rather unremarkable distillation of what the church teaches us about immigrants: that we owe them a preferential option. But I wasn't in the proper frame of mind to say all that; and the vibes I was getting from him was that he wasn't in a frame of mind to listen to it with an open heart, either. Still, maybe I could have handled it better.
His aggressiveness may have been defensiveness. A guilty conscience. . The scriptures are pretty clear on the subjects of refugees, immigrants, and welcoming the stranger. Praying for them is simply the Christ- like thing to do. If it makes him squirm, maybe it will also make him think. But obviously his timing was all wrong if he honestly wanted a real discussion. You shouldn’t feel badly about how you handled it. He ambushed you.
ReplyDeleteI think most people are nervous and not very slick when it comes to being confronting someone in person. I don't know if this guy is Catholic but many Catholics have it almost bred into them to be deferential to the clergy. When I wouldn't engage, he started to push a little harder - he was getting frustrated.
DeleteAnd you're right, it was a little bit of an ambush. Usually when strangers approach me, it is to ask for a prayer for their mom's surgery or something like that.
DeleteI guess I would have told the kid this. The American Empire is fading. We have 4% of the world’s population. China has 18%. India has almost 18%. We have 3X the area of India, 1/4 the population. Statistically, white people don’t seem to want babies. If we want to compete in future world, we can’t do it if we remain a white people only gated community. Immigration laws have always been about implementing racism and prejudice. Donald Trump is a %#&!$@@!. I guess I’m not deacon material but I admire what you do, Jim, and sympathize with what you have to put up with.
ReplyDelete"For immigrants, refugees, and all those trying to make a home in a foreign land, may they be welcomed as Abraham and Sarah were many generations ago" "The petition is a rather unremarkable distillation of what the church teaches us about immigrants: that we owe them a preferential option." "The scriptures are pretty clear on the subjects of refugees, immigrants, and welcoming the stranger."
ReplyDeleteIn homilies, petitions, and other catechetical materials everyone in the parish should be clear about the teaching of Scripture and the Church, e.g. popes and bishops on this subject.
YM: What do you think of our country's immigration policies? The young man's question was clearly a political question. "Country" and "policies" are political questions. Countries have different laws on the subject of immigration which are subject to change, and interpretation. To ask a member of the clergy about their views on political questions, or to infer their views on political questions should be off limits.
In our country we have a tradition of separation of church and state, i.e. of churches not endorsing particular candidates, and parties while at the same time articulating scripture and church teachings which have implications for government laws and policies, and what candidates and parties one might vote for.
In our church, especially since Vatican II, and especially in democracies we have an evolving practice of seeing the implementation of the gospel in secular affairs as being the primary responsibility of the laity, e.g. priests and deacons should not hold public office less the faithful become confused about when they represent the church or political parties.
The better response might have been: Government laws and policies may be wrong in the eyes of God, scripture and church teaching. Laws and policies may be unjust. It is primarily the responsibility of the laity not the clergy to apply scripture and church teaching to law and politics. I would be happy to spend some time with you helping you to understand scripture and church teaching so you can decide how to best make those applications.
and add "It is not my job as a deacon to keep up with immigration law, or the policies of the current administration. I have a lot of church things to do which is why I don't have time to respond to you right now."
Delete“ Government laws and policies may be wrong in the eyes of God, scripture and church teaching. Laws and policies may be unjust. It is primarily the responsibility of the laity not the clergy to apply scripture and church teaching to law and politics. I would be happy to spend some time with you helping you to understand scripture and church teaching so you can decide how to best make those applications.”
DeleteMaybe add - “I am late for an appointment now. Please call the rectory with your contact information and I will contact you to make an appointment to talk.”
Excellent observations and suggestions, Jack.
Yes, I did some reflection after the incident and agree a response along the lines of what you suggest would have been better. I hope I'll be better-prepared next time something like that happens.
DeleteThis guy was a stranger to me. He may have been visiting the parish to figure out if this whether this is a place he would like to join. I fear, if he is looking for a church to have his Trumpy political views reinforced, ours may not be a comfortable home for him. These thoughts, or at least the kernels of them, were part of my in-the-moment assessment of him. Still, I wish I could have left the door more ajar for future discussion than I did.
I appreciate the advice, Jack.
Another thought regarding my in-the-moment assessment: MAGA types are becoming more aggressive about 'wrong-think' in many sectors of society. It wouldn't surprise me if Trump's political operation has decided that churches, as loci of pro-immigrant sentiment, are problem areas regarding MAGA's project of arresting, detaining and deporting illegal immigrants. There are many immigrants who attend mass every weekend at our parish. I have no idea what the legal status is for any of them.
DeleteThis circumstance was discussed earlier this year in a multi-denominational meeting of church volunteers who run soup kitchens in our area. People are asking, What do we do if we are serving a meal in our parish hall and ICE shows up? After that discussion, I reached out to our pastor and the archdiocese and got some guidance about what to do should something like that happen at our parish. Until this year, this topic never would have arisen. We live in interesting times.
It’s good that you are preparing for an ICE visit. Parishes in California are missing a lot of Latino parishioners these days - they are afraid to go to mass. This is primarily hitting city parishes, not suburban. But since Chicago is next on Trumps hit list, the suburban parishes might get caught up in the ICE dragnet too.
DeleteEverything trump is doing is right out of the autocratic ( fascist) playbook. It’s only beginning now - the National Guard in DC are now carrying guns. I am just waiting for a tourist to be shot in a crossfire. Most of the National Guard are not in the higher crime neighborhoods, but in the tourist areas of the city which have always been pretty safe. They are stopping people by racial profiling using timeworn phony excuses such as a taillight being out. Then demanding papers. Last week a pizza delivery guy on a moped was stopped because his license plate was partially obscured by dirt or something. Apparently the delivery people on mopeds have become a favored target.
The truly dangerous criminals are in the White House and west wing. And at the DHS headquarters.
I read in the WaPo today that Latinos are now missing from the pews in the Catholic and Protestant churches in the city. But not in the suburbs - yet.
DeleteGaahh! The guy was trying to start an argument. Not the time or place. What you said was appropriate, plus Jack's suggestion of having a discussion later. I'd say, "call the church office for an appointment."
ReplyDeleteSomewhat related, I don't know if any of you have been following the news about ICE detention centers proposed locations in various states. Turns out Nebraska is one of them. The proposed site is McCook, NE, a town in south Nebraska. It was (is?) the site of a former youth detention center. Actually I'm pretty sure it still is. It is in the Lincoln diocese. Here is a link for a strongly worded letter from Bishop James Conley.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.lincolndiocese.org/bishops/bishop-james-conley/statements/18999-bishop-conley-on-the-immigration-detention-center-in-mccook
Lincoln is one of the more conservative dioceses in the US, nevertheless Bishop Conley made a strong statement in favor of immigrant rights. Good for him.
Of course people are making up nicknames for the proposed ICE site, such as"" Rattlesnake Alcatraz ". But the one that seems to have stuck is the " Cornhusker Clink". Some Cornhusker football fans are objecting to that.
Cornhusker Clink is a lot better than Alligator Alcatraz!
DeleteThe simple answer to YM is: "Deporting illegal aliens isn't the problem. The problem is depriving people of due process and releasing them where they are likely to be killed or injured. You can learn more about what the Church teaches on this if you want to make an appt with Father or me."
ReplyDeleteDon't pass the buck by saying, "I'm just saying what they write for me."
We all need to learn to think fast and give concise responses. MAGAs are on high offense, primed on their attack modes by right-wing media rhetoric. Waffling on our part makes them feel like they've made some incontrovertible point that leaves nonMAGAs stuttering because there is no response.
Even better would be for parishes to hold teaching sessions on the Catholic response to immigrants and refugees ...
Jean - “ Even better would be for parishes to hold teaching sessions on the Catholic response to immigrants and refugees “
ReplyDeleteI’ve never heard of an Anglo majority parish that does that. It seems that many pastors are afraid to teach the gospels because of pushback from MAGA parishioners. And because, unfortunately, those pastors are also MAGA.
Years ago, when I was active on the Social Justice committee of a local parish, we wanted to hold an educational event on Catholic Social Teaching using the information on the website of the USCCB. Lots of pushback from the white, male, wealthy parish council members. The pastor was in favor, but he was worried about the complaints of the parish council. We did do a couple of sessions, which were poorly attended. We also wanted to start using Fair Trade coffee at the doughnut and coffee hour. This is the wealthiest parish in the archdiocese. The Parish Council refused to up the coffee budget (about 10%) complaining that supporting Fair Trade was veering towards socialism. We finally found the extra cash for one Sunday/month to have Fair Trade coffee and put out brochures explaining it.
I suppose Fair Trade coffee would be too "woke"!
DeleteIn a Worship Commission meeting, I once suggested a goal of making our parish campus carbon-neutral, via practical ideas like solar panels. The sound of crickets was deafening. I am not (at age 63) the youngest person on the Worship Commission but I am in the top 3 or 4. I don't think everyone else on the Commission is anti-solar panels, but I don't perceive that they see climate change as an issue that is important enough to actually do something about.
DeleteKatherine, this was pre-Woke, pre-Trump by many years. The pastor then was a Vatican II priest, very interested in social justice issues. The Parish Council complained because Fair Trade coffee was sold wholesale with a price floor- if the market price was lower, it was subsidized. The PC men were ranting about price supports and subsidies for poor coffee farmers who refused to sell their beans for next to nothing to the big companies. They joined a small coffee farmer consortium. I wrote a very polite paper, speaking as an international economist, and pointed out that our own agricultural market was often heavily subsidized by the Federal govt to provide a floor - especially wheat and dairy, rice and other goods more cheaply grown in other countries. The feds bought the excess wheat and sent it to poor countries via USAID. It was humanitarian aid, but also self-serving so that the grain farmers wouldn't go broke and go out of busines because the market prices were too low. I think that is one program that wasn't cut, but only because it helps our farmers. The Parish Council types were flustered by learning this news and I'm quite sure that if still alive, are MAGA types who are "America First - the hell with everyone else in the world". Send grain to the poor but only if it helps us.
DeleteNo, of course they're not gonna hold teaching sessions about what the Church teaches about immigrants and refugees when 80 percent of their white parishioners voted for Trump 2.0. People don't pay good money to the Church just so it can make them feel like sinners, for cripes sake. They wanna know that if they show up every Sunday and help out with the fish fry, they'll have enough points on their punch card to get into Heaven.
DeleteAbraham and Sarah are granted hospitality twice, first by Pharaoh and next by King Abimelech, and both times pull the same stunt, pretending that the very beautiful and desirable Sarah is Abraham's sister. This puts Pharaoh (upon whom God visits plagues) and King Abimelech in grave danger. Abraham and Sarah are not model immigrants.
ReplyDeleteI think Trump, Miller, Homan, and the others are deeply evil, but I wouldn't bring Abraham and Sarah into it.
I didn't see the whole point of why Abraham told them Sarah was his sister instead of his wife. Even though she actually was his half sister if I am reading the story right. What got me is how she mistreated Hagar and Ishmael.
DeleteTerrance Malick’s movie, “Days of Heaven” was a reenactment of that Bible story in an American setting.
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