On Sunday, November 17, I received an e-mail message that I had not seen in more than three years "New Member for your Commonweal Local Community." He happens to be a biology researcher at John Carroll. A woman religious on their staff is on our mailing list but attended only one meeting. Several members who were very active live in the immediate area. The time has come to stir up our membership list and the staff at Commonweal to rethink CLCs.
I have posted on the Cleveland Commonweal Local Community website my analysis of our 29 months of meetings before the pandemic as well as a menu of ideas (models) for reinventing CLCs. One can use any combination of the models. They are not all mutually exclusive although some go together better than others. The presumptions is that we can and should have more than one group.
Besides starting a discussion among our own members, I am going to ask Commonweal to send e-mails to all my counterparts in the other 50 CLCs with a link to our website asking for their experience before and after the pandemic as well as their ideas of "reinventing CLCs"
Hopefully it will stimulate rethinking at Commonweal, but you will notice that I have not including any advice to Commonweal in the presentation. Our CLC became too dependent upon the CLC website to generate new members. I do not want our members to get the idea they can just wait until Commonweal creates CLC 2.0.
I would appreciate your opinions of the various models. Which ones might work and why? Which are problematical and why?
My guess is that it's pretty much like any club or discussion group. It works for awhile, and then it kind of falls apart. It either recalibrates and starts up again, or the members move on to other things.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how necessary it is that your group or prospective group has an official connection to the "mother ship". I assume you would be free to start a discussion group among subscribers and occasional readers, and publicize meeting times on your local media.
Things are different, for sure, after the pandemic. My book club was on a long hiatus during Covid. We started meeting again, and some members came back, but some didn't, and there are some new people. Which is fine. It didn't help that we lost our meeting place for a while when they were building the new library. Art Club was different. We were also on hiatus for awhile, but most of the original members came back, and we have picked up new members. People wanted to be included in the shows, and to do that you have to produce some actual work.
Is your group doing physical meetings, or is it virtual now?
My understanding about the CLCs is that they would attract longtime subscribers and find new ones among well-off and well-connected academics and high-profile professional Catholics who could be leveraged into large donations to the mag.
ReplyDeleteAbout 15 years ago, I attended a couple of programs in East Lansing at the MSU student parish where Cathleen Kaveny and Patrick Jordan spoke. Great programs, nice people. I was invited to lunch with one of the movers and shakers. Lovely person but she realized 15 minutes in that I was just an adjunct with no money or social capital to offer, and that was the end of it of my involvement.
There isn't a CLC listed for East Lansing. The priest was reassigned and the new one was not Commonweal friendly, so not sure what that group might be doing now.
I expect the magazine would see the ideal model as a dedicated core of academic and professional Catholics in large cities who host gatherings that keep the magazine and its financial needs in front of participants.
I was involved in some contract work for Harley Davidson Owners Groups, which were rich dudes who liked to be Born to Be Wild weekends and were ready-made groups of high-end customers for Harley products. Ssimilar deal.
Your suggested models might give some groups ideas for how these groups could form up. I don't know what the mag might think of them, and my sense is that C'weal would want to realize some kind of tangible or intangible benefit from any group calling itself a CLC.
DeleteGood insights, Jean. Yes, there current model is philanthropy based rather than subscriber and advertiser based. They depend heavily on donations.
DeleteThey may be impressed that the Cleveland CLC was able to engage about 10 percent of the subscriber base with another 10 percent showing up once. They might think my 2.0 version could take that to 20 percent engagement plus another ten percent showing up occasionally.
They will probably like my university leadership and PEW successful careers models. The type of people that might be regular givers. Actually, some of our most active members were PhDs, academics and lawyers.
They might be wary of my grassroots model, especially subscribers supporting CLCs in their parishes and homes on the 5 free articles per month. On the other hand, if philanthropy
can support any subscriber having that own CLC, they just might go for it.
A lot of the social models (invite a friend, hospitality, and circles of friends) may or may not appeal to them. They might see them as means toward fostering an elitist model. On the other hand, a lot of my elitist members were not into social models, e.g. they did not like a social hour before or after the meeting.
Your thoughts reinforce my intuitions of not appearing to give them advice, just asking their cooperation with contacting other CLC heads for their experience and ideas. Hopefully they will like some of what I have to say, enough that it will encourage the local membership list.
Do they still send a newsletter to donors once or twice a year? Seems like I got that a couple times when I made a donation by declining the honorarium. They highlighted a lot of their perks for donors in the newsletter--the awards dinner where your group could sit with a famous Commonweal host, people who dropped into the Riverside Drive offices for a visit, info on their redesign and new features. They didn't brag up what CLCs are doing as far as I could see--here's the kind of quality people who belong to them, look at the cool places they meet and things they discuss, etc--to raise magazine prestige, sort of "Catholicism for the discerning reader" theme.
DeleteI see no merch link over there, and no link to CLCs from the main drop down menu, so I wonder how much they're promoting them. Possibly they've found a few really deep pockets?
One of their problems seemed to be finding young readers. That's a problem for all print pubs, tho.
Best of luck with your group. You've put a lot of thought into how groups could be adapted to fit different types of people.
I haven’t been active in many groups. We had Renew at our parish long ago and I went once or twice. I volunteered for a couple of ministries, but those weren’t for discussions. The only group I ever stuck with for long was Centering Prayer, which evolved from only prayer to prayer and discussions, usually based on something we read - Usually a book. Sometimes Lectio.
ReplyDeleteThe numbers of participants varied in the same range as your CLC group. There was a core group who came almost every week - about six of us. There were others who came regularly but less frequently. Then there were some who came once or twice and never returned. We met in the very comfortable and homey couch-and-upholstered chair « living room » of a double wide on the church grounds that was serving as the Youth Center, parish library, and also a couple of offices for staff. In spite of being a double wide, it was actually very cozy. A couple of religious prints on the wall, including one of a Laughing Jesus, a coffee table with the candle on it, and sometimes a small tabletop fountain. I loved it and stress dropped away as soon as I walked in the door. We chatted, then someone read a short prayer or scripture, then the lights were out and we had 20 minutes of silent prayer by candlelight. The leader had a Buddhist meditation bowl to strike to end the meditation time, then we prayed the Lords prayer before lights came back on. We prayed for others also. After that we talked - about the book we were reading, or just about our lives that week. The group met for years, before it slowly broke up. I went for about nine years but it had started years before I joined.I think all together it lasted about 15 years. Our group merged with another green one summer when a lot of people were gone from both groups after about I had been going seven years. Eventually some moved, a leader died, Covid came and the group died.
The parish has changed. They once had three CP groups, now there are none. The priest and congregation are much more conservative, and the EWTN/ Jeff Clavins Bible study/ Barron types tend to be suspicious of centering prayer so it probably can’t be restarted. I wish you success with the rebirth of your group, Jack.
group not green.
DeleteCommonweal is running a 100 year anniversary promotion $9.95 for one year of print and digital. I might resubscribe.
ReplyDeleteI might too, I am an occasional reader. A lot of their articles tend to be more lengthy and academic than I am interested in. But I do like certain of their regular writers.
DeleteI sometimes found the articles to be overly long and academic also. Occasionally one came across as pseudo- intellectual. But there are usually articles of interest - enough of them to subscribe for less than $10/year. The trick is to remember to unsubscribe before the automatic full price renewal!
DeleteRemember that with a subscription comes complete access to their one-hundred-year archive. I would like to read what Day and Merton had to say. I am also thinking of seeing what they had to say when I was in college during Vatican II, perhaps I read some of those in the college library. I am also going to be collecting back articles for my Lake County Ohio Weal site. You can help me vet them without being constrained by 5 articles a month.
DeleteI like the Commonweal articles. They have more depth than the America articles which have become superficial and both-sides-ist. Lots of churchy articles. They seem to refuse to use the word “genocide”. Also, another silly article blaming Harris’ loss on misogyny, as if it’s impossible for an elitist out-of-touch party run by big donors (read oligarchs) to run an insubstantial woman candidate. Also, lots of young authors in America. Nothing wrong with young authors but there seem to be too many.
DeleteI don’t know. Commonweal articles seem more substantial in politics and religion. Their political and economic stances seem more realistic. I’m sticking with them. America magazine, I may allow to lapse.
I find that with America magazine I like certain writers much better than others. I don't mind both sides if it is done in a fair way (sometimes it isn't). Seeing another point of view helps me understand where other people are coming from even if I can't agree with them on every point.
DeleteAmerica started going downhill when Matt Malone took over. When Reese was editor he often published issues with two different views on one controversial Catholic topic , written by Theologians or other scholars. I remember well the issue on women’s ordination because one of the writers was Cardinal Ratzinger, who, of course, said “Never!”. I don remember who took the “ pro” side. He published non official views on birth control along side the traditional teaching. Not long after the women’s ordination issue, Reese was forced out of the editor slot - they were told that he had to resign or submit every issue to Rome for vetting before publication. Malone forbade the use of the words “liberal” and “ conservative” in reference to Catholic controversies, including in comments, a hopeless attempt to fight the increasing polarization in the church. Since Commonweal is a 100% lay publication, they aren’t subject to censorship. Commonweal lapsed into pseudo- intellectualism at times, which was annoying. And at times the articles were longer than I prefer. At America Sawyer has been even worse than Malone - especially with the both- sides- ism on politics . I disagree with you that Harris was an unsubstantial candidate, specially when compared to trump, whose policy ignorance is still pathetic, even after having served one term. The only thing he learned from that is to get his way he will simply have to toss the separation of powers and the Constitution if necessary. Harris was essentially forced into a role with little time to prepare and I think she did a decent job and she was walking a tightrope. But I didn’t pay too much attention as I felt that trump is a total disaster, so I wasn’t too picky about her. They leaned too hard on the abortion issue. I do think that misogyny and race both played some role. There are many recent articles about the disaffected younger men who went for trump this time. He cultivated them quite actively, leaning a bit on the Jordan Peterson impact on this demographic. Many of them feel that they are losing out to both women and minorities. The data support this, but the reasons for it are on the young men who feel entitled and that losing out to women and minorities just isn’t right.
DeleteI think that genocide is a word that has to be used carefully and clearly trump wasn’t going to help the Gazans unless killing them all faster instead of slowly is desirable. I don’t like the proliferation of young authors either. Their lack of life experience shows through too often. I think that they are trying hard to gain younger readers in order to keep them in the pews. But based on what I infer from comments, the majority of readers are not young, and those who are young are very conservative. Progressive young adult Catholics are gone e cent perhaps for some who attended Jesuit universities that still have som3 older professors.
I will have to ask Raber if he's renewing C'weal. I like a lot of the religious and political coverage. I have a low tolerance for theological explication. And, re their litbsection, I can't overlook their decades of ignoring Toni Morrison when she was alive and not running a retrospective when she died. She was a Catholic convert early in life, went by her confirmation name (Anthony hence Toni), and her books are full of moral quandaries that C'weal readers care about--racism, misogyny, poverty, forgiveness, mercy. They hew too closely to the "safe" Catholic writers--O'Connor, Joyce, Graham Greene, etc. They feature Alice McDermott's short stories occasionally, but she's writing about a strain of Irish American Catholicism that, imo, is more nostalgic than reflective of modern Catholicism.
DeleteI do like the movie reviews in America from the reviewer John Dougherty who seems to have a big effing heart and the more cerebral from the Andersen guy. I could keep my subscription for those. Dougherty’s review persuaded me to try “Wicked”. Another movie I want to see is “Bonhöffer”, highly relevant to these fascistic, genocidal times.
DeleteJust want to mention what you all probably already know. Biden pardoned his son for all crimes back to 2014. This act of favoritism would be forgivable and forgettable if he would pardon Leonard Peltier, Indian activist, and Mumia Abdul-Jamal, black activist, sick old dying men who just want to die with their loved ones. They have been suitably punished for standing up for their people. I don’t expect an imperial political hack and genocide supporter like Biden to do it but there are always surprises. Maybe he can extrapolate his love for his son to people outside his family circle. Please make me very wrong about you, Joe.
One hears a lot about the "barstool bros" that Trump courted, the young, and not so young, men who feel that life hasn't treated them fairly. They don't seem very clued in that it might have something to do with their own attitudes and efforts.
DeleteSome of my favorite America writers are Gerry O'Connell, Colleen Dulle, Kevin Clarke, Terrance Klein, Michael O'Loughlin, Molly Cahill, and Gloria Purvis.
I enjoy reading some of the younger writers. I think many of them are interns and don't stay around very long. Some of them are short on experience and perspective, but they have to get it somewhere.
While there are disaffected young men, it must be said that they have grown up in a moral vacuum. Money is the god of America and their chances of getting it and establishing a normal life are minimal. Even if you win, you are in a gated community where outside the walls is a blighted landscape. Then, when you inevitably divorce, you end up in that blighted landscape in a small overexpensive apartment, paying child support and without prospects. In many ways, the only party offering change was the Republican Party, albeit violent, wrecking ball change. Kamala committed herself to following Biden to the tee. She was the no-change-vegetable-lasagna candidate. I understand that Democratic-leaning previous voters just stayed home in enough numbers to have made a difference. The ratio of Democrats to Republicans that stayed home was like five to one. That isn’t misogyny. That’s despair.
DeleteI hope Biden commutes the sentences of the 40? federal prisoners who are on death row, and also pardons the ones Stanley mentioned. I don't know if he can pardon those like Liz Cheney and Jack Smith, who didn't commit any crimes, but whatever he can do for them is fair. I'm not in the least sorry that he pardoned Hunter. If Harris had won, it would be a different story. But if Trump could get Hunter sent to Guatanamo, or Riker's Island, you know he would.
DeleteI sent a polite email to the White House asking Biden to extrapolate the compassion for his son to pardon Peltier and Abu-Jamal (previously mispelled).
DeleteHarris may have been bland, but she’s not out to destroy our democratic institutions. Today’s Heather Cox Richardson article provides more detail on trumps very deliberate wrecking campaign, out to destroy some of our freedoms and appoint people in violation of some laws. Will he get away with it? Both Ukraine and Gaza will be worse off as will Europe and, if he really does start a trade war, the American economy and the rest of the world.
DeleteThe trump bros are angry about being left behind the women and minorities. The trend has been clear for years - girls do better in elementary and high school, more women go to college than young men, more young women graduate from college than young men, who drop out at higher rates, women earn more advanced degrees than men except in engineering, physics, computer sciences, and mathematics. Many young educated women are not interested in dating less accomplished men and some of those young men are angry about this. I read a study this week that most men don’t want to be married to a woman who earns more money than they do. Your friend’s bitter divorce is not typical based on the experiences of some of my women friends - fortunately not many divorces among my friends and family, but the women and children were often the big losers here in Maryland since Maryland doesn’t have community property laws for divorce. I shared an office once with a man who complained bitterly about only seeing his son once every two weekends, and equally bitterly about paying child support, but he also didn’t want custody. I gave him information about how dads could gain more custody but it turned out he didn’t want it. He loved horse racing and custody might prevent him from spending every weekend at the track. He admired one of his friends who managed to hide in New Mexico to avoid paying support for his five kids in Maryland. I knew women here who were married to wealthy men who had way better lawyers than they could afford who were left struggling to raise the kids with minimal financial support from their doctor or lawyer husbands.
But - the Democrats did stay home. You may be right about the despair. But if the AOC wing had a candidate it might have been even worse. Perhaps Bernie - another old man. Too late now.
As a woman, I experienced discrimination in my male- dominated career, especially during the earlier years. My black daughter- in- law has experienced both misogyny and racism.
Yes, Fr. Reese was the best. The magazine hasn’t been the same since he was sandbagged. And Fr. Sawyer is even worse than Fr. Malone. Unfortunately, America has become tame which is the worst pejorative of which I can think.
DeleteAnd I’m with Katherine on the pardon. Trump has gotten away with many felonies, has appointed judges who tell him he’s above the law, encouraged a violent overthrow of our government, which as far as I’m concerned is treason, pardoned some of his henchmen and plans to pardon many more. Clinton pardoned buddies too. I don’t remember if Bush and Obama did. I’m not familiar with the two cases you cite. Will have to look them up. For me the choice was a thoroughly corrupt man who was out to destroy our freedoms and laws and a woman who would respect them. Biden actually did a good job with the economy and restored relationships with our allies so if she would be more of the same it would be ok. The Middle East has stymied just about every president we’ve ever had and will continue to do so, except that trump will give Israel Carte blanche to destroy Gaza and perhaps give Putin carte blanche to destroy Ukraine.
DeleteI am puzzled by the disgruntled Trump bros. Is anyone standing in the way of their education and achievement? I'm not reading that they are the ones who came from a background of dire poverty. How does it matter to them if some women are high achievers? There are plenty of men who are doing fine.
DeleteIt seems to me that they might have grown up in more traditional families for role models, with dad as the primary breadwinners. But I don’t know much about the backgrounds of these angry young men. In recent years young men have been realizing that being male no longer automatically assures them a higher place on the job totem pole which wasn’t the case in previous generations. Two of our sons are married to women with PhDs. One son has an MBA and a MS but his PhD wife is currently devoting all of her time to raising their three young sons. The other son has only a BA , but his wife has two Masters and a doctorate . Our eldest has a BA but his wife, with no degree, is the primary breadwinner and he is in charge of the cooking and children because he’s operating a low income, small home- based business. I chose to freelance so that I could control my own hours with three sons to raise and worked part- time for most of those years.My husband made a lot more money than I did. But he wouldn’t have been threatened if I had earned more.
DeleteMy mom was a writer after us kids were raised. She didn't make a lot of money at it, a lot of local newspaper gigs and a couple of books dealing with Nebraska history. But I remember my dad kidding that if she made the NYT best seller list, he would be perfectly fine with making less money than she did.
Delete
DeleteGood thought about pardoning some of these old geezers! I will also write.
Ultimately, the Gaza genocide will not be solved by internal politics or voting. It will either stop because the US support system collapses physically and economically or there is enough civil disobedience to impact our country’s support for the genocide. The other reason might be the collapse of Israel, economically or militarily. I won’t miss it if it does. The Israelis could use their dual citizenships to escape. They will never die like the Palestinians are dying now. I care about them as human beings, not as an abstract political entity. Israel is not in good shape. The only difference between our two political parties is the speed at which Israel will try to reach its goal of the extermination or ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. It’s like being condemned to death but you have the choice of either being killed with a hacksaw or a bullet to the head. Sorry, but I just saw a video of a dead Palestinian with two powerful smoke jets exiting from holes in his chest. White phosphorus. Burns spontaneously on exposure to air. Even if you put it out with dirt, it just wants to start up again when it gets a chance. Nightmarish.
DeleteI have to admit I have lost faith in the concept of country or nation, any country or nation. Have we ever in history achieved a government that doesn’t eventually start using its own subjects or citizens for grand schemes? That book “Poland: the First Thousand Years” shows a country that avoided expansion by aggression in it’s first incarnation as the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The author alludes to but doesn’t elaborate on the period between the wars after Poland was reconstituted. There was conflict and I am wondering how much bad stuff was done by the new Poland to recover some original territory. I am curious about this period and not looking forward to what I may find out. There was also compromise to bring the two Polish independence parties together, one of which was antisemitic. I am curious about similarities between the post-WWI Poland and the new Israel. Poles are sons of Adam and daughters of Eve, as well, hard as it is for me to admit it.
Delete"I am curious about this period and not looking forward to what I may find out."
DeleteYeah, I read some books about the famine and Troubles in the north of Ireland whence my mother's family. Nobody comes off too good in those debacles. "Say Nothing" was pretty awful. I'm going to skip the televised adaptation of it. The Guardian says the show is too sympathetic to Jerry Adams. I don't know how that guy is walking around free.
I know many are upset with the Trump voters and I agree but the ones that really got to me were the voters in Colorado, Idaho, Nevada and Oregon who voted against ranked choice voting. Missouri outlawed it. Alaska has it and only saved it by 663 votes out 300,000. Maine didn’t have a vote. Really? Why vote against increased voting power to shape the government? They love either of the two parties and the Punch and Judy show? May they all be abducted by aliens permanently.
DeleteYeah, I don't know why people would be against ranked choice. Maybe just because it's different from what they're used to. I think it needs to be publicized more.
DeleteJean, I found a book about the Polish interbellum period, “Bitter Glory”. The author is a non-Pole so I hope to get a more objective appraisal. I know that Poland was sandwiched between the Nazis and the Commies but there is probably a lot more to the story. Not easy rebooting a country after 125 years. I know the democracy collapsed because of unresolvable political strife. I suppose I’d rather have Józef Piłsudski as a dictator than Trump.
Delete"My Dream of You" by Nuala O'Faoilin brought out the strange attitude of the Irish toward Famine victims. The Irish who survived in the countryside often did so because they were attached to estates owned by English overlords. The poor sharecroppers who had been on the outskirts of the estates were the ones who were starved or "invited" (forced onto ships) to emigrate to the US and Canada. There was a lot of survivor guilt by those who lived thru the Famine. That guilt morphed into the story that those who left were too weak and stupid to make it. It explains the deep disdain the Irish often have for Irish Americans.
DeleteI remember reading in a book on the Irish immigration that many of the unskilled (pejorative: “stupid”) died here, despite efforts by the Church to help them. How many died at hard labor digging canals and clearing the way for railroads? Wasn’t aware of the distain thing. The more you read history, the curiouser and curiouser it gets.
DeleteOnly light covering of snow in my part of Michigan, but in the 20s, so slippery roads in spots. However, deer are the bigger worry. Hunting and mating season, so they're moving around and jumping in front if cars. Cold but sunny this afternoon and most of snow dissipated. We are supposed to get significant snow Wednesday, so gotta get groc before then.
ReplyDeleteWe ended up with about two feet of snow. But the roads and our driveway are being plowed regularly. Most of this was lake effect snow so we may get so more until it warms up into the 40s over the weekend. There is enough snow that it may not melt before Christmas. The lake was very warm; the lake effect shuts off when Lake Erie freezes which it does more easily because it is shallow. But last year it did not freeze much.
ReplyDeleteWe're living in Michigan's Banana Belt, smack dab between Lakes Michigan and Huron and far enough south of the Saginaw Bay to miss the worst of the lake effect snow bands. We also get a bit more sun than the snowy areas. We get heavy wet snowfalls and rain throughout the winter that makes things look muddy. So it's like five solid months of March. We usually get at least one really bad ice storm in March/April. Then we get a few weeks of chilly spring. By the end of May, we get our first 90-degree day, and the weather yo-yos between searing heat and pleasant 70s between June and the end of October. Then it's March again.
ReplyDeleteIf the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC), part of which is referred to as the Gulf Stream, shuts down, who knows what will happen to the weather. Computer models show Europe is definitely in trouble. Previously thought to have a decade more of life, scientists are now talking about decades. Here is oceanologist Herr Doktor Stefan Rahmstorf:
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/mm_YZ2juQL4?feature=shared
I meant “a century more of life” was expected.
ReplyDeleteI decided to renew the Cmmonweal subscripion. I also took advantage of the 50% off promotion that The Economist magazine is running today. I used to subscribe, but it got too expensive, It’s the best news and politics coverage around I think, as well as good economics coverage. I like the extensive international coverage.
ReplyDeleteThe Economist used to be available through Libby, which is the digital service our library uses. But they quit doing that. I suppose too many people figured out they could read it for free.
DeleteWe have Libby and Hoopla. But no Economist on either.
DeleteRe: ranked choice voting: I'm guessing that, in order to take flight, it has to fight against the "gravity" of both MAGA and Woke/Progressive, both of which probably would win fewer elections under ranked choice voting. Both have an influential presence in cable news and social media.
ReplyDeleteI sometimes wonder whether Americans are so eager to be affiliated with their partisan "team" that they have lost sight of the meaning and responsibility of citizenship. We're supposed to be the shepherds, not the sheep.
Re: Gaza: there is a news item in our local newspaper this morning that Hamas and Fatah are nearing an agreement that would "appoint a committee of politically independent technocrats to administer the Gaza strip after the war...[i]t would report to the Palestinian Authority, which is headquartered in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, and work with local and international parties to facilitate humanitarian assistance and reconstruction." The article continues, "It would effectively end Hamas' rule and could help advance ceasefire talks with Israel."
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing in the statement about returning hostages, which - if one can believe Netanyahu - is one of the main conditions for ending the hostilities. The article also notes that Netanyahu would insist on the dismantlement of Hamas; it's difficult to believe Hamas would agree to that.
This arrangement, if it can come to pass, is in line with the plan promoted by the Biden Administration to move toward a two-state solution.
In this, as in other things, we see Joe Biden as peacemaker. That may the thing I've admired the most about his presidency. To be sure: you may disagree that the president who is supplying weapons to Israel and Ukraine is a peacemaker. Personally, I think this is what realistic peacemaking looks like - peacemaking within the boundaries of what is possible. Just my view.
Regarding Commonweal Local Communities: I can easily see that the distance (and time) to travel is the biggest "drag" on attendance. The same would hold true in the Chicago area.
ReplyDeleteI guess the technology solution would be to use Zoom or Teams or something of that ilk. That's not nearly as good as getting together in person, though - it's a poor second-best. I think what Anne said about the coziness of the room and the stress melting away is an extremely important observation.
The better technology solution is blogger, i.e. like NewGathering, where members can make posts and comments at odd moments of the day. It also means that members can choose their depth of involvement and that can change over days, months and years.
DeleteIf the Cleveland CLC became a blog, I think that we would end up with an inner core of about six people who would blog regularly with another group of about 12 people who would
occasionally make posts and/comments.
We could have face to face meetings several times a year that would be more like social meetings. What might it be like if NewGathering met several times a year in person? I suspect we would have a lot of fun over some of our favorite topics and perhaps have a few odd topics just for fun.
As a "shut in," I feel I have too much online interaction. It's great for task-oriented or narrowly focused groups (my AlAnon and cancer groups). But I don't think you really get much of a conversation--someone's comment might get a couple responses, but that's not like a real convo. Sorta like people making random comments while passing in the street.
DeleteI'm not exactly what you'd call a warm "people person." But as a teacher for many years, being unable to see faces and gestures is a real drawback. I like that extra level of communication, seems more complete to me.
I don't need cozy as long as there's coffee!
As a shut- in with severe hearing loss I find that online interactions are a lifeline for me. I’m going to look into the two CLCs that are sort of near me to see exactly where they are and when they meet. I don’t know if in person meetings would work for me both because of my hearing loss and because I am limited in when I can leave the house - only when I have a proven caregiver here that I trust. Maybe they are zoom. Our weekday caregiver is good. Weekends are not reliable yet. I am limited pretty much to daytime during the week and constrained further by the many doctors appointments. If it’s zoom I might be able to participate .
DeleteI was never a great fit at dotCommonweal - I'm not a layperson and I'm not particularly liberal. I just loved the quality of the conservation.
ReplyDeleteI think it must have been hard for you and other clergy not to go into "corrective" mode over there. I did get private correctional notes a few times from some of the priests over there, which I did take to heart.
DeleteOne of the limits of the laity, as I saw it in RCIA, was the misinformation about the faith that gets transmitted by people who have not studied it, have no teaching skills, and have narrow views on things. Church Ladies in the local parish clearly wanted to be very strict about the Sacraments, gender roles, child rearing, and various rules and traditions that they learned in the 1950s and 1960s from the nuns. And more liberal lay people on C'weal saying all that Church Lady stuff was B.S. and wrong and that in following it I was wrong, too. So just as doctrinaire, but in a different way.
After so many years of confusion, I finally just assumed that my reception into the RCC was a big mistake. I went back to the catechism in the Episcopal prayer book, the old Q and A format that I think was the feature in the old Baltimore Catechism for Catholics. I go thru the questions a couple times a year occasionally to check my faith. Not sure whose rules it passes muster with, if anyone, so I'm staying out of all communion lines and hoping for the best!
Jean, when I was looking for an EC community I asked priests at different churches what the “ must believes”:are to be Episcopalian. They were puzzled by the question. They gave vague answers, usually landing on The Apostles Creed. They told me that each person could essentially study the teachings to see what makes sense to them. No “must believes”except the creed. No 1000 page catechism. As one former Catholic told me there, “ I don’t have to check my brain at the door”. We stopped going to church during Covid. We haven't returned. There is more online for Catholics than for Episcopalians. And there is a core part of me that will always be more Catholic than Episcopalian, even though I agree with the EC far more than with the RCC. A former Catholic theologian from England wrote a book after he left Catholicism - a rising star theologian. He shocked the Catholic establishment in England when he left. He said that Catholics are usually imprinted from birth - like baby goslings. That the sacramental rituals, home rituals etc become so ingrained in us when young that even when we leave we are held by some ties. Something like Andrew Greeley’s theory of why Catholic parochial schools and vibrant parishes were important - “ the stories” he said, the stories told by sacraments, statues, holy days, saints etc. But he felt that it all has to be inculcated when children are young. Some call it religious education, others call it indoctrination. The English theologian ended up n Canada teaching Theology at me of the universities. He held home liturgies with family and friends throughout his life - Anglican. He said that there is no single “ true” religion.
DeleteThe catechism in the BCP is not 1,000 pages. It is also more of a historical document than a teaching tool, but I find it a useful gauge. Am I still a Christian or have I gone full bore Universalist? I don't really know what's going on with Anglican priests at large. I sometimes worship at the Episcopal Church in the next town over, but I have never talked to the priest outside of hello/goodbye. His sermons are slightly better than the local Catholic priest's because he does not use automotive or sports analogies.
DeleteThat’s what I meant.The BCP catechism is a reasonable length - not 1000 pages like my RCC catechism.
DeleteYes, sorry, I misunderstood. The Church Ladies gave us a copy of the CCC saying, "Here's all you'll ever need to know about what the Church says." I did take it home and study it (cuz that's what I do when somebody gives me a book). I also used it when I had to make major (and some minor) decisions, and it did tell me what to do. But not how to live with the doubts and questions. I guess nothing fixes that.
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