Thursday, July 6, 2023

What they find in Trump

One of the great topics at NewGathering for the last eight or so years has been: What is it that those voters see in Donald Trump?!

Today, New York Times columnist David French gives an insightful answer: Trump voters find something in the MAGA brother- and sister-hood that is not visible to those of us outside the club: joy.

In today's newsletter, French demonstrates how valuable he is as one with a foot planted in two different worlds.  On the one hand, he is an Evangelical Christian who lives in the heartland of MAGA Americana, and so understands that culture very well,  On the other hand, he is an Ivy League educated person who is comfortable moving and communicating in that milieu.  Consequently, French often serves as a sort of mediator, or translator: explaining Evangelical culture to the rest of us or vice-versa.

Thus, today French shares a certain contradiction, or perhaps it is a paradox, about Trump loyalists among American voters: they are simultaneously cheerful and apocalyptic.  As an example, he offers a recent tweet from first-term Tennessee congressman Andy Ogles.  As French notes, "The text of the greeting is remarkable only if you don't live in MAGA-land:"

Hey guys, Congressman Andy Ogles here, wishing you a happy and blessed Fourth of July. Hey, remember our Founding Fathers. It’s we the people that are in charge of this country, not a leftist minority. Look, the left is trying to destroy our country and our family, and they’re coming after you. Have a blessed Fourth of July. Be safe. Have fun. God bless America.

French summarizes the message thusly: They’re coming for your family! Have a great day!

Rather than considering this rather disjointed collection of sentiments to be an exception, French finds it positively typical of what characterizes MAGA.  He writes,

take the Trump rally, the signature event of this political era. If you follow the rallies via Twitter or mainstream newscasts, you see the anger, but you miss the fun. When I was writing for The Dispatch, one of the best pieces we published was a report by Andrew Egger in 2020 about the “Front Row Joes,” the Trump superfans who follow Trump from rally to rally the way some people used to follow the Grateful Dead. Egger described the Trump rally perfectly: “For enthusiasts, Trump rallies aren’t just a way to see a favorite politician up close. They are major life events: festive opportunities to get together with like-minded folks and just go crazy about America and all the winning the Trump administration’s doing.”

Or go to a Southeastern Conference football game. The “Let’s Go Brandon” (or sometimes, just “[expletive] Joe Biden”) chant that arises from the student section isn’t delivered with clenched fists and furious anger, but rather through smiles and laughs. The frat bros are having a great time. The consistent message from Trumpland of all ages is something like this: “They’re the worst, and we’re awesome. Let’s party, and let’s fight.”

French then asks the million-dollar question: "Why do none of your arguments against Trump penetrate this mindset?"  He answers himself:

The Trumpists have an easy answer: You’re horrible, and no one should listen to horrible people. Why were Trumpists so vulnerable to insane stolen-election theories? Because they know that you’re horrible and that horrible people are capable of anything, including stealing an election.

At the same time, their own joy and camaraderie insulates them against external critiques that focus on their anger and cruelty. Such charges ring hollow to Trump supporters, who can see firsthand the internal friendliness and good cheer that they experience when they get together with one another. They don’t feel angry — at least not most of the time. They are good, likable people who’ve just been provoked by a distant and alien “left” that many of them have never meaningfully encountered firsthand.

French isn't a MAGA true believer himself.  He knows, better than most, what it is to be the target of Trump followers' threats and attempts to intimidate.  He knows that it is not all joy in MAGA-land.  Anyone who spends more than 10 minutes consuming right-wing talk radio or similar Trump-oriented media understands that keeping its listeners/viewers/readers perpetually keyed up in a state of rage is a critical ingredient in the MAGA phenomenon.

Still, I suspect French is right that within-the-bubble camaraderie is invisible to those of us on the other side of the soapy wall.   And it seems likely he is correct that it is the element of joy, not the fear, anger and loathing of the "other", that accounts for MAGA imperviousness to anything and everything that would tend to topple their hero.

French goes on to draw some interesting lessons: for example, he attributes Ron DeSantis's inability to catch on with Republicans nationally to DeSantis's evident joy deficit.  Sourpusses usually aren't electoral winners.  

He also thinks that many MAGA followers are helped to sustain themselves as true believers by leading insulated lives.  Many of them are not exposed too much to the people they deplore (i.e., people like us).  In this regard, French observes:

Evangelicals are a particularly illustrative case. About half of self-identified evangelicals now attend church monthly or less often. They have religious zeal, but they lack religious community. So they find their band of brothers and sisters in the Trump movement. Even among actual churchgoing evangelicals, political alignment is often so important that it’s hard to feel a true sense of belonging unless you’re ideologically united with the people in the pews around you.

During the Trump years, I’ve received countless email messages from distraught readers that echo a similar theme: My father (or mother or uncle or cousin) is lost to MAGA. They can seem normal, but they’re not, at least not any longer. It’s hard for me to know what to say in response, but one thing is clear: You can’t replace something with nothing. And until we fully understand what that “something” is — and that it includes not only passionate anger but also very real joy and a deep sense of belonging — then our efforts to persuade are doomed to fail.

I find this analysis pretty astute.  I'll push it a bit farther: people who are not under the Trump spell occasionally will remark that his followers are a cult.  Perhaps that observation isn't so casual.  The incident of the Hebrews in the desert illustrates the eternal truth that, if people believe God has left them, they'll build a golden idol of their own.  MAGA can be disconcertingly like that.

42 comments:

  1. "...they are simultaneously cheerful and apocalyptic."
    The camaraderie sounds a little like a church social. That's actually the first time I have thought about the MAGA types being joyful among themselves, but I think there's something to it.
    I am quite familiar with their notion that Democrats are next door to being Communists, that The Left want to destroy all that is good; and force Wokeism on everyone.

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  2. I really think we have to search for ways to build bridges to people who live in the MAGA bubble. Better to have a relationship than a chasm.

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    1. I don’t think they worry much about building bridges to the not MAGA types. According to David French they hate us and think we’re “horrible”. Well, I understand that. I don’t hate them but I do think most of them are pretty “ horrible”. And I don’t think that anyone tells them that they should try to understand us. They, like the congressman, just tell them that we are going to destroy the country and that we are coming for their families.

      French - Why do none of your arguments against Trump penetrate this mind-set? The Trumpists have an easy answer: You’re horrible, and no one should listen to horrible people. Why were Trumpists so vulnerable to insane stolen-election theories? Because they know that you’re horrible and that horrible people are capable of anything, including stealing an election.

      I’m with these two commenters on the article in the NYT - only two of many who expressed similar views,

      AMck
      Maryland
      The media is committed to convincing us that we need to understand MAGA. Enough already. I’m tired of the outsized influence they have on our daily lives. Every whine and whimper, every grievance and fake outrage receives coverage. Their fears and threats govern book access, school curricula, public health initiatives regarding vaccines. They have everything on their side: a politicized supreme court, buffoonish congressional representation, the freedom to carry guns, the liberty to be racist and homophobic. The rest of us need a break.

      Rebecca
      Maine
      I am waiting for the article to help Trumpsters understand me.

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    2. About having a relationship rather than a chasm, I think I do. And one thing you find out are that even MAGA types are more complex than we think. For instance, one of my brothers is kind of MAGA. But he now thinks the Affordable Care Act is okay. Because it saved him a whole lot of money. The other brother is more your classic fiscal conservative type, doesn't like Trump but thinks the Democrats will send the economy to hell in a handbasket. My sisters and I are Never Trumpers. One of them and myself grouse about it via text. The other one wants everyone to get along and be happy; she has had enough trouble in her life.
      Pretty sure most of our church friends are either MAGA or hold- your-nose-and-vote-R- because -abortion types. But we don't talk about it, which is probably for the best.

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    3. I don't know if the male/ female divide is a thing, but it does seem like women are more likely to be Never Trumpers, even if they still are conservative. I would think Trump's all-consuming boorishness and lack of an honest bone in his body would be a huge turn-off.

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    4. This is a letter published in the Sun Sentinel in Florida in 2017. I agreed with the writer then, and I still do. I believe that the essential issue with MAGA isn’t policy - it’s far more fundamental - essential in the philosophical sense. I’ve never had a problem with people whose policy views ( taxes, regulations, fiscal policy, trade etc) are different from my views. But I do have a big problem with tens of millions of Americans putting tax policy above essential values - voting for a candidate (and now a whole political party full of them) who ran on a platform of inciting fear and hatred of “ the other” reflects a chasm that I have no desire to “bridge”.

      The other day I sent the following email to two friends who were particularly adamant and outspoken in their support of the now president-elect:

      "Please understand that I am not mad at you because Clinton lost. I am totally unconcerned that you and I have different 'politics.' And I don't think less of you because you voted one way and I another. "No, I think less of you because you watched an adult mock a disabled person while addressing a crowd and still supported him. I think less of you because you saw a candidate spout clear racism day after day and still backed him. I think less of you because you heard him advocate for war crimes and still thought he should be given the reins of government. I think less of you because you watched him equate a woman's worth to where she landed on a scale of 1 to 10 and still got on board. I think less of you because you stood by silently while he labeled Mexicans as criminals and Muslims as terrorists. "It wasn't your politics I found repulsive. No, it was your willingness to support someone who spouts racism, sexism, and cruelty almost every time he opens his mouth. You sided with a bully when it should have mattered most, and that is something I will never be able to forget.

      "So in response to your post-election expression of hope, no, you and I won't be 'coming together to move forward.' Obviously, the president-elect disgusts me; but it is the fact that he doesn't disgust you that will stick with me long after the election."

      Phil Shailer, Hollywood

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  3. Can't help but be reminded of the 1973 series about WWII, "The World at War". A jewish man who was a young boy while the Nazis were rising to power in Germany was one of the interviewees. He told about how he envied the crowds on their way to a Nazi rally. They gave off such a feeling of belonging and having a good time. Even he wished he could join them. Nevertheless, I weary of the Democratic Party being the anti-Trump party. That's all I get in their emails asking for renewed financial support.

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    1. Stanley, I changed my registration from R to Not Affiliated about 20 years ago. After that 95% of political robocalls stopped as did written. requests for money. I never give my email address or my mobile number. I have a junk email address that I use when absolutely necessary.

      In 2020 someone dredged up old voter roll info and I got two MAGA requests for $ - one under the name of Donald junior, and one under ivankas name. Into the trash. There are more registered Not Affiliated in Maryland than there are registered either R or D. I believe that may be true nationally also.

      Political parties aren’t the only groups who dun for financial support. The Catholic Church related entities are the worst in my mailbox. My name and address have been spread far and wide throughout the Catholic world. Far worse than the political actually because those dunning requests have a cycle, slowing down in the off years.

      MAGA is a manifestation of extreme tribalism, as was naziism. People in cults of all sorts enjoy being part of it, at least for a while.

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  4. We don't have to become MAGA to build bridges with them. We don't have to love what they stand for, either.

    If they are in our families, we should invite them along with whomever else we would invite to Thanksgiving, or grandkids' birthday celebrations, or whatever other family get-togethers there are.

    If they are our neighbors, we should cultivate a relationship with them over the property-line fence - and maybe even invite them over for a cook-out.

    If they are our co-workers, we can go out for a Friday night drink with them occasionally (if people still do that? I haven't worked in an office for so long, I'm really out of the loop on some of those things).

    As Catholics (and/or as Christians), we need to have a "bias" toward unity. Civil, respectful encounter surely is one of the building blocks for unity.

    There - that is my contribution for the Eucharistic renewal.

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    1. Why should we willingly consort with those whose values are so different from our own when it’s optional? This applies to work and neighborhoods. And families too, although it’s trickier with family. We don’t choose our families. Why not simply base relationships on what they are usually based on - shared interests and shared values? If I wouldn’t choose to be friends with my MAGA sister if she weren’t a relative, why should I pretend that her values are ok with me? I don’t work, and so that’s not an issue. My neighborhood is about 90% Dem, so it’s not an issue there either. I can be civil with people I don’t know well whom I meet who are MAGA but I certainly would not pursue a relationship with them. I would not invite them to a cookout in order to build a bridge with someone i have no interest in having a relationship with. I have turned down multiple invitations to family events since 2016. I see no reason to go - it’s not comfortable spending an evening with people I no longer respect and walking on eggshells the whole time.

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    2. Anne - I really think it's part and parcel of the "love your enemies" injunction.

      FWIW - my sister is going through a divorce. It wasn't her idea; her husband told her the marriage is over and they need to divorce. So I pray for her (nearly) every day. When I pray for someone with a particular intention, I try to extend it to, "...and others in those circumstances". At some point, it occurred to me that my brother-in-law (the one my sister is divorcing) is one of those in similar circumstances. So now I pray for him, too. It's not easy! It's a lot easier for me to pray for my sister than for the guy I blame for ending their marriage. But I hope it's helping me grow spiritually.

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    3. With family, I find it better to share the things we do share, and not to share the things we don't have in common. I am interested in hearing about what the nieces and nephews are doing. How did the calving season go? Or talking about memories, "...remember the time when we..." Or talking about the people who aren't with us any more. "Dad would have loved the new library." " I made Nana's cinnamon roll recipe the other day, but I can't get them to turn out as good as hers did."

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    4. Jim, we have one of those situations in our family too. We liked my niece's husband, until he cheated on her. I pray for him too, but it's hard. I pray harder for the niece and her little two year old son who won't ever remember his parents being together.

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    5. I do pray for my sister. But I have no desire to be with her physically in the same place. To talk with her. Life is too short to spend time with family if they aren’t people that you would choose to spend time with if they weren’t family. There is a family event this weekend that involves the younger generations (a great-great nephew. I think that’s the right number of greats - my niece’s grandson) We will stop by with a gift, congratulate our great- niece, the new mom, say hello, ooh and aah over the baby, and then leave because my sister and her husband, the great- grand parents, will be there. The only time we’ve been in the same place since 2016 was the combined funeral of our other sister’s daughter and her husband.

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    6. The baby’s grandmother is my eldest niece. She is also my god- daughter. I was 14 when she was born and becoming an aunt then was special to me, as the youngest of five. In fact, the youngest of all the cousins. Almost like a much younger sister. The age difference is actually a year less than that of one of my daughters in law and her younger sister. It’s because of that relationship that we will drop by. It’s a combined first birthday and baptism party.

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    7. Katherine, you grew up in a Norman Rockwell town and family. It’s not a family experience or general life experiences that I relate to. Not many happy family memories to talk about. No good memories of our father at all for me. He liked the middle sister, but not much the other four of us.

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    8. One more. Jim - You pray for your soon to be ex- brother in law. Would you make a point of socializing with him too? You may have to if there are family events involving the children who are also his children, but would you otherwise? You would go for your sister’s sake, and your nieces/ nephews, if there are any. But if not, would you invite him for a bbq? If not, why would you invite a MAGA neighbor ?

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    9. Hi Anne - he (and my sister, at least for now, although we'd like her to come home) both live in California. After the divorce, I suspect he'll pass out of our lives. They don't have any kids. I wouldn't try to force a relationship in the case, where there is no "natural" basis for it.

      If he was my next door neighbor, and otherwise a stranger, I might invite him over for a cookout. Or I'd at least not turn away if we both happen to be working in the yard at the same time. (I don't actually know whether he is a MAGA type - honestly, I don't know him very well. They have always lived 1,000+ miles away from us and I think I've only met him two or three times, ever.)

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    10. Just to add on to that reply to Anne, and sort of summarize my thoughts on this, such as they are: I think it's good for us to get to know MAGA types, at least well enough that, as Katherine noted, we can see that they are complicated human beings who don't necessarily conform (completely) to our stereotypes.

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    11. You and Katherine may choose those you wish to spend time with. I will do the same. But truthfully I don’t really care what they think of me, because I don’t value their opinions at all. Being MAGA tells me everything I need to know about them no matter how “complicated” they might be. They might help a person with a flat tire or shovel the driveway of an elderly neighbor, or spend a day each month working at the soup kitchen, but being MAGA tells me that their essential values are repugnant to me, and I need not waste time with them. There is no point. They aren’t going to change their minds. They aren’t open to truth, to factual information so no point in trying. Their joy comes from “owning the libs”. I don’t think that it’s possible to bridge this chasm as the value systems of the two sides are light years apart. But you might be able to because you seem to lean to the right a whole lot more than to the left. You are with them when it comes to multiple areas of discord between MAGA and anti-MAGA. So the same views and values that are deal-breakers for me are ok with you.

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    12. BTW, Jim, know that you aren’t MAGA. You aren’t a trump supporter and you are not mean. MAGA. Folk are mean, just like trump. They love him because he makes their meanness, their nastiness, and their hate acceptable. There are a few policy issues that even I might agree with.But because the MAGA movement is so very destructive to our country, I cannot vote for any Republican now. The very essence of MAGA is something that I will fight as long as I have breath. The movement is built on hate, so I really don’t care whether or not I prefer their proposals on Medicaid to the Dems proposals to pick a random policy issue . ( just hypothetically)

      But since you are very conservative on a number of issues, it’s possible that you might build a bridge because it would only need to cross a small river, not an ocean as mine would have to do. However, I’m not sure what it would actually accomplish if the goal is to defeat MAGA and return the GOP closer to something normal.

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    13. Almost all my relatives are pro-Trump one way or another. I just think of them as having developed a sort of dementia. So I don't take what they say very seriously. I didn't stop loving and caring about my mother when she developed dementia.
      They don't talk too much about politics anymore. When they did, I usually would calmly state my position which would sound to them like a message from Alpha Centauri.
      These days, the only things I push with anybody are ranked choice voting, anti-corruption, workers' rights and climate change. I no longer identify with either of the major parties so maybe that'll make it possible to converse with all types.

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    14. I think to a lot of people politics isn't "real life", it's more akin to reality tv. I do pay attention to how people act where the rubber meets the road, and I don't hang out with mean or hateful people. Fortunately I don't know very many of them.
      Many people are Trump voters because they feel the Dems are on the wrong side of the life issues, and favor sexual libertarianism. Which is ironic when you think about it, considering that Trump is an immigrant hater, wants to cut holes in the social safety net, and is personally a libertine.

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    15. Biden just approved cluster bombs for Ukraine. They rain down shaped charge grenades that can penetrate armor AND kill nearby humans. Unexploded grenades will be killing people for years after the war is over.
      Apparently, we can't make standard ammo fast enough. I'll bet China could since the global capitalists moved manufacturing there. Since we crippled our manufacturing capability to support war, maybe we should try peaceful negotiations.
      It took bilateral cooperation of our two decrepit political parties go get us into this Ukraine mess. I despise them both and wish they could be relegated to the dumpster of history.

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    16. Yeah I saw that about the cluster bombs too, and thought it was a bad idea. Funny (as in peculiar) how that isn't considered a life issue.

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    17. One of the things that has really bothered me about the “ pro- life” movement is the narrow focus on abortion exclusively. The Seamless Garment is a much better model for being pro- life.

      To clarify on my calling MAGA types mean. I assume that not all of them are. Although they will support trump even when they claim that they really don’t like trumps nastiness: corruption and endless lies. . Not terribly convincing but at least they don’t want to be seen as being of the same ilk - a bit of shame there.

      But the groupies who go to all the rallies - experiencing joy according to David French - are mean, just like their hero. They take joy in trump’s nastiness, his bullying, his insults to women, minorities, immigrants, and especially democrats.The nastier he gets - the meaner he gets - the louder they cheer. This is what brings them joy, and there is no way to reach people like that.

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    18. "But the groupies who go to all the rallies - experiencing joy according to David French - are mean, just like their hero. "

      I agree, at least to some extent. I suspect that, for many of them, perhaps most of them, the true root cause of their nastiness is not hatred per se but fear.

      I think the MAGA folks find joy in being with like-minded souls at the Trump rallies/festivals, but fear those outside the bubble.

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    19. "However, I’m not sure what it would actually accomplish if the goal is to defeat MAGA and return the GOP closer to something normal."

      My goal in urging bridge-building isn't political. I don't harbor any delusion (and I think it is a delusion) that MAGA can be defeated and the GOP be returned to something within the guardrails of normalcy. I think that toothpaste is out of the tube.

      So far, Trump appears to be a one-off; the guy who, so far, has seemed most likely to be his heir-apparent, DeSantis, hasn't shown the political magic yet to catch on as a serious national candidate. But even if Trump died tomorrow, I don't think the Trumpy nationalists will "snap back" to the old Reaganite GOP. The Mitt Romney / Paul Ryan ticket in 2012 showed that that older political philosophy is past its political expiration date.

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    20. The Democratic Party seems to have maintained some unity insofar as it has neutered the too left faction with AOC et al. They'll make a lot of noise about abortion and LGBTQ issues but the real pro-corporate power structure and the war complex will remain unopposed. I don't know if RFK will cause a split. He has nothing to offer except being less decrepit than Biden. RFK has a vocal cord problem that makes him sound weak and old.

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    21. Jim My goal in urging bridge-building isn't political. I don't harbor any delusion (and I think it is a delusion) that MAGA can be defeated and the GOP be returned to something within the guardrails of normalcy. I think that toothpaste is out of the tube.

      We are agreed on this. So what is your goal in bridge building?

      Since looking for change in the MAGA types is hopeless, I see no point in trying to build bridges with people whose values are so opposed to my own. I don’t wish to spend time with them. So I won’t invite them to the bbq, nor accept invitations to theirs, even if they are neighbors or family.

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    22. Jim - My goal in urging bridge-building isn't political.

      So, once again I ask - what is your goal in trying to build bridges with MAGAs?

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    23. "So what is your goal in bridge building?"

      I'm not sure what the word for it would be. Social? Patriotic? I continue to believe that there are things that unite us as Americans, and we're better off united than divided - even if the unity isn't perfect. We're already divided racially and by social and economic classes. Now we're introducing new forms of cultural and political division. Not good.

      Part of it, frankly, is spiritual. It's not good to have Evangelical Christians (and a lot of Catholics), as well as some Jews and Muslims, on one side of the political divide, with the mainline Protestant churches (and a lot of Catholics), as well as some Jews and Muslims, on the other side of the political divide. We Christians, at least, should have a bias toward unity. That was Jesus's prayer - that we be one. The situation in the US today is almost like the politics are defeating ecumenism - and potentially dividing churches. That's bad.

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    24. Jim, I agree with you that the goal in bridge building is a spiritual thing. And the situation now does almost seem like a defeat of ecumenism. Only it isn't so much an ecumenism between denominations as a rupture of ecumenism within our own church. And yes, that's not good.

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    25. So it seems that you are really concerned about religious divides, within the RCC and between different branches of Christianity and between Christians in the US and the multiplicity of non- christian religions? As you note, these divisions are very often political, not just theological. . From where I sit, reading the daily news, I see little hope that it’s possible to build bridges between these groups.

      But you seem unsure - recognizing the it’s delusional to hope that the GOP returns to normalcy yet still advocating building bridges — based on what? It seems at this point that religion and politics in the US have become hopelessly intertwined. I share more values with my Jewish neighbors than I do with right- wing Christians, both evangelicals and EWTN Catholics.

      What are the “few things” that unite us?
      .

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    26. Well I'm not Jim, but I can think of a lot of spiritual reasons to unite us. But I'm not going to go into those. The big reason, as far as civil society is concerned, to seek unity is that if we don't, we'd just as well say it out loud that America as a democracy is over. Are we willing to live with what will take its place?

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    27. Katherine thanks for responding. But I really would like to know how it’s possible to find “unity” when we’re so divided. What does unity even mean under the present circumstances? How would you define it? In what meaningful areas is it even remotely possible that we find unity? It’s fine to talk about calving season, or the football game, or a movie or TV show. But those are not areas where meaningful unity can be found.

      I don’t think it’s possible when the MAGAs and the rest of us can’t agree on basic facts - I found this over and over when I presented verifiable information from original sources to MAGAs. They didn’t care.They said that they were lies. I avoided what became controversial sources like the CDC, NIH, and sought out source studies from around the world on Covid and it didn’t matter. If I tried to correct their misinformation on things like economics data, they said they were lies, no matter how reliable the source of the data. Trying to correct misinformation - and lies - about the criminality of immigrants and refugees was another totally impossible task. They WANT to believe the lies because then they feel affirmed and justified in their opinions. This is especially upsetting when they also wear their “ christianity “ on their sleeves. Including when it’s Catholic christianity.

      So I don’t think spiritual unity has much of a chance either. The RCC is every bit as polarized as the secular society.

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    28. I guess what frustrates me when reading what are now countless articles about building bridges, trying to understand trumpies ( but apparently they aren’t expected to understand non trumpies), about finding common ground and building unity is the fact that there are never any specifics on how this is to be done. Is everyone just supposed to smile and talk about everything but what is truly important? If some believe in the America of the inscription on the Statue of Liberty ( Give me your tired, your poor….) and some want only to build walls to keep the tired and poor out, where is there a foundation for unity? How does tiptoeing around the hard stuff build unity? Or bridges? If a trumpie refuses to accept facts (such as election results), considers a violent assault on congress to be nothing of importance (normal political discourse according to the RNC), and a whole lot more then how does a non-trumpie find common ground? And vice versa? What is the roadmap for building these bridges? For finding unity? Or is it simply nice sentiments.

      And what is meant by spiritual unity? Details again, please!

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    29. I think a discussion of spiritual unity deserves its own thread! Maybe I will think about posting one. If anyone else gets to it before I do, go for it.
      As far as building bridges with the MAGA group, what I am reading is that only about 24% of Americans really are part of that. So maybe we should concentrate on the bridge building with the Republicans/conservatives/Joe Manchin Democrats who are not MAGA, but agree with some of the economic and foreign policy positions. And let the MAGAs be in their bubble because that's what they're going to do anyway. I think Stanley had it right in one of his comments when he compared it to a kind of dementia. The thing about the non-MAGA but MAGA adjacent that is concerning is that they could end up voting for Trump anyway (if he is the candidate) because they believe that the Democrats are so far left that they fall off the edge. So I think bridge building means de-emphasizing the culture war stuff and concentrating on things that more affect the lives of most Americans . And convincing them to make sure that the Republican nominee is not Trump. That is the main thing that is needed to preserve democracy. Even if we think a candidate is awful, if they are awful within normal parameters.

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    30. Well, DeSantis, #2 in the polls, is all about the culture wars! The two or three candidates that aren’t focused on that are polling single digits with registered Republicans.

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    32. I am not able to start new threads on my iPad. The sign- in stopped working. It’s tricky on my laptop, but I can still do I. However, right now I’m using my iPad. The following is a quote of a comment on the article about Douthat by Peter Mullen at the America website. I would use it to kickstart a discussion of ways to achieve spiritual unity, but can’t right now. So if it is of interest, maybe Jim or Katherine could do it,

      I'm told, though I haven't read it myself, that Karl Rahner SJ wrote that in the future Christianity will either be mystical or there will be no Christianity. As long as we are arguing with each other on an ideological level, where our egos are inevitably involved (our need to be "right") our alienation from each other will not be overcome. Contemplative prayer invites us to a deeper level of awareness, a felt union with the Mystical Body, and a gradual (far too gradual to be sure) release from the strivings of our individualistic egos. Then we can listen to each other and recognize, even in those with whom we disagree, the same yearning of our own hearts for union with the Divine.

      I’ve fallen off the wagon again in my practice of CP. Mr. Mullen’s comment is a good reminder for me. I know from past experience that I’m less judgmental when I practice CP regularly. A bit nicer. A bit more christian in my reactions to others. I did go to the family party last weekend. I spent most of the time in a small room away from the group talking to a newish family member by marriage whom I hadn’t met before - but I was there at least.

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