2010 John Allen NCR Interview with Tobin

 August 6, 2010

Elevating another American to a senior Vatican position, Pope Benedict XVI on Monday named Redemptorist Fr. Joseph Tobin as the new secretary of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, colloquially known as the "Congregation for Religious."

My Comment: John Allen framed this as another example of Benedict's appointments of Americans to key positions in his governance. I think it is more interesting because of what Tobin says about religious life, the bishops, and the Vatican

Q&A with Fr. Joseph Tobin

Allen: On a personal level, Tobin is generally viewed as about as moderate as they come, and someone who prides himself on being able to see matters from a wide range of cultural and intellectual perspectives. He comes out of the traditional mainstream of religious life, thereby representing established orders who sometimes felt a bit neglected under John Paul II in favor of the new movements.

He was elected superior general of the Redemptorists in 1997, and re-elected in 2003. During that span, Tobin became a leader among religious in Rome, serving in key positions within the Union of Superiors General, the major umbrella group for men’s orders. He also sat on the “Council of the Sixteen,” composed of eight male superiors and eight female, who meet on a regular basis with the Congregation for Religious. After 12 years at the helm of the Redemptorists, which included a grueling schedule of travel around the world, Tobin was savoring a sabbatical year at Oxford when Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican’s Secretary of State, called to scramble his life once again.

Allen: Any sense of why you?

I asked that question of Cardinal Bertone, in terms of what they’re expecting from me. I think a large part of it is that I have personal experience of one form of consecrated life, as well as the experience over the years of listening to people representing many other varieties of consecrated life. I’ve had fairly wide contacts both with women’s and men’s orders. I also know something about how consecrated women and men have interfaced with this dicastery, because I’ve served on the rather ominous-sounding "Council of the Sixteen," which includes eight male and eight female superiors general who meet with the congregation.

I also wonder if the fact that I’m an American has something to do with it. There’s a great deal of misunderstanding among American religious about the decisions of the Holy See, and in particular the visitation of women religious. I feel I can bring something to that, because I’ve worked all my life with women’s religious. They taught me when I was a kid, and my mother’s family was very close to the Immaculate Heart of Mary sisters. I’ve preached women’s retreats and listened a lot to them over the years. Maybe I can offer a different picture of American women religious than the one that has been presented in Rome. My own impression is extremely positive.

Beyond that, I like being with a wide variety of people, talking with people who represent other ways of thinking and other cultural mindsets. I hope that serves me well in this assignment.

Allen Over the years there’s been tension between the Vatican and some of the traditional orders and groups in religious life, such as the Union of Superiors General. You’re a veteran of the USG, so does your appointment signal healing?

Tobin: I hope so, and I guess I would be inclined to read it that way. For decades, there’s been a sort of mysterious breach between the Union of Superiors General and the Vatican ... "mysterious" in the sense that no one could quite explain what caused it. The USG tried unsuccessfully for years to get an audience with the Holy Father under John Paul II. To his credit, when Benedict XVI was elected, he met with both the women and the men. That showed some openness to dialogue. I guess you could say my appointment moves in the same direction ... at least, it’s as good an explanation as any! I have been heavily involved in numerous projects of the USG, including an international congress on religious life in 2004 that was more or less boycotted by the Vatican. Maybe this appointment amounts to a kind of rehabilitation.

MY COMMENTS

It is interesting that both Tobin and Allen as Vatican observers accept the "mysterious breach" between the Vatican and male religious orders. Over the centuries the bishops have long been at odds with religious orders, both male and female. Usually, the Vatican has been supportive of religious orders because they were reformers in the church far more than the bishops. Making religious orders subject to the pope rather than the local bishop has been a key dynamic in Western Catholicism. 

Since Vatican II we have evolved into a very parochial model of the Catholicism. The parish has become the model for the local church; Catholic colleges, monasteries, heath care centers, retreat houses, etc. are seen as extras. Parishes unlike institutions run by religious are very territorial. 

Vatican II called for the renewal of religious life, with each order going back to its founding charisms. Religious orders have responded generously but that has not resulted in increased vocations to the religious life in first world countries. Rather as vocations to the priesthood, both diocesan and religious, have declined, religious have been increasingly called to staff parishes. 

Although in the fifties, before Vatican II, Rome was heavily involved in promoting the renewal of women religious in the US (they were behind extensive formation efforts, including the pursuit of degrees by women religious) since Vatican II Rome has loss interest.  

Under JP2, a lot of the religious orders, both men and women, were seen as being too progressive. A lot of them have adopted very progressive governance models of consultation. JP2 was so concerned about the Jesuits, that he took advantage of the illness of the Jesuit Father General to impose his own appointee upon the Jesuits!

This conversation shows the large change that has taken place since JP2 in consulting religious. To his credit, B16 was a bridge to that change which has become extensive under Francis.