Today is the fourth anniversary of NewGathering.
Our first posts were on March 9, 2017. Thanks are due to everyone, both those who put this blog together and those who have kept it running.
On March 6, 2017 I signed up for the Cleveland Commonweal Local Community.
So I thought it might be interesting to compare the two.
So I must have signed up with the CLC sometime during the March 4th to March 6th period. It took until August 20,2017 when I (along with fourteen others) got an e-mail message from Commonweal saying that our first CLC meeting would be on September 7, 2017. That contrasts very much with the ability of people to get this blog together by March 9, 2017. I had thought it would take months.
The Cleveland CLC met once a month every month (except one) until March of last year when we cancelled meetings indefinitely because of the pandemic. That contrasts very much with the ability of this blog to produce about one post a day for the last four years, and to keep on going during the pandemic!
Similar numbers of people are involved in the both entities. Only nine people showed up for the first meeting of the CLC; the rest of the meetings were between 3 and 10 persons with the usual numbers being 5, 6, and 7. Not always the same people came. Altogether almost forty people have signed up for the CLC, but only about twenty people have ever showed up even once. When I ask members if they want to remain on our mailing list they are very reluctant to remove themselves. Most say that they do not have the time but would still like to come. For at least half of our members it took between thirty minutes to an hour to get to our meetings.
I was not involved much with the old Commonweal blog . I had spent about four years commenting on the Pray Tell Blog on almost a daily basis plus Father Anthony had accepted more than a dozen posts. Most of my comments on both the Pray Tell Blog and the old Commonweal blog were more like posts than comments. I very much appreciate being able to make posts on this blog.
For the most part the face to face meetings of the CLC have not resulted in deeper relationships than are possible on this blog. There are however two important exceptions to this observation.
I met my friend Betty because of the CLC. We were at a discussion at the Hildegarden about the Book of Enoch. Betty did very well in this rarified discussion including several PhDs I invited her to join the CLC which she accepted. After her first CLC meeting I invited her to the local Orthodox parish for the Vigil Service (combination of Vespers and Matins) for the feast of Saint Nicholas and dinner afterwards. Essentially our first date.
During the first year of the CLC, Wayne a retired high school and college teacher with a background in American Studies was a key leader. I recognized that he was likely to become a very close friend. Unfortunately he developed cancer, and died near the end of our first year. We had a CLC meeting at his house on the night before he died. He did well as people often do when they are near death. Betty and I participated in his funeral including leading Evening Prayer for the Dead. Wayne like Betty and I prayed the Divine Office regularly.
In many ways virtual CLCs like ours are easier to do, and provide more contact and more frequent contact than face to face CLCs. I hope to encourage the development of a virtual CLC like NewGathering here in Cleveland since I will soon be in my eighties.
However, face to face CLCs offer the opportunities for the development of deeper friendships outside the CLC.
Jack, I love this topic. I value the relationships with you and with all who post and comment on this blog. At the same time, I recognize that these relationships are virtual, and are therefore constrained. I am always interested in meeting up with people face-to-face, if the opportunity ever presents itself. That makes it a "real" relationship. If I am not mistaken, the only person on this blog I have met in real life is the one who is farthest away, Gene. We shared only a brief time together, but because we have met (and I also was able to meet his lovely and amazingly gracious wife at that time), I number him among my real friends, not "just" a cyberfriend.
ReplyDeleteOn the other side of the ledger: we reveal quite a bit about our inner lives in the course of posting and commenting here. We do get to know each other in a fairly deep way - certainly much more so than, say, the parishioners with whom I have a casual, "How ya doin'?" sort of acquaintanceship with.
As part of our diaconal formation, my wife and I attended a Marriage Encounter weekend - this would have been about 20 years ago. The key takeaway was that spouses should write letters to one another: love letters in which they can pour out their affection, their anguish, the things that are on their minds and in their hearts. It is easier to do this by writing it down than it is in the give-and-take of a conversation (perhaps in part because some marriages probably have rather dysfunctional conversational habits?). I confess that, post-weekend, we haven't cultivated the letter-writing habit. But doing it on the weekend did open my eyes to the advantages of it.
We do get to know each other in a fairly deep way - certainly much more so than, say, the parishioners with whom I have a casual, "How ya doin'?" sort of acquaintanceship with.
DeleteIn both parishes and the mental health system, I have found that interactions tend to be narrowed because of the public nature of everything. In journalistic terms I was always a “senior administrative official” or “well known parish member” who is always talking off the record but whose comments are likely to get wide distribution.
When Voice of the Faithful conducted private “listening sessions” with priests (remember one of that organizations three goals was to support priests of integrity) I was surprised not only how willing priests were to be honest but also how good their analyses were of so many issues when they talked away from their parishes. We were not getting the “stock answers” for consumption we received in our parishes. It is not that priests are lying to us in our parishes, they just aren’t telling us the whole truth.
When I was on pastoral council I did a confidential open ended response questionnaire to about twenty leaders of small groups. In the public report they could see their own answers as well as those of others but arranged in way (similar answers next to each other) that did not allow their views to be easily detected unless they had already expressed them publicly. Many were relieved to be able to express their opinions in a way that they were acknowledged. Many parish members are afraid to be honest not simply for fear of offending the pastoral staff but even more from fear of what their fellow parish members might think.
Both this virtual group and CLCs give people the opportunity to discuss issues within a safe group, knowing that their views will not likely go beyond the group, and that they have some idea of how other people are thinking.
Raber was away at school in another state for most of my pregnancy with The Boy. I have some letters from that time that are nice.
DeleteLetter-writing is a big part of the Retrouvaille program. It is useful in getting things off your chest and then helping you take the heat out of some issues or deciding that's not a battle you want to fight right now. It is helpful in detaching from the heat of the moment.
Glad your live group has been a success, Jack. I met C'weal writers Patrick Jordan and Cathleen Kaveny when they were brought in to speak at the MSU parish in East Lansing.
ReplyDeleteRaber still gets a C'weal print subscription. I find it helps me stay somewhat connected to Catholicism, and I suppose this group does, too, given that the local parishes here are militantly Republican. It is depressing to be so out of sync with other parishioners. Add the repressive and judgmental Church Ladies, and online worship and spiritual community starts to look mighty good!
"given that the local parishes here are militantly Republican."
DeleteCommonweal has been having some panel programs on Zoom. One of the panelists said he had worked in a parish where the assumption was that one could not be a Catholic and a Democrat and in another parish where the assumption was that one could not be a Catholic and a Republican.
He was talking about how to articulate Catholic social teaching in ways that facilitated people making moral judgments rather than making judgements for them.
I think the American Church (and Christianity generally) is going through one of those narrow-minded periods in which it is obsessed with sin, individual salvation, and personal piety.
DeleteIn other eras, it has been more generous and inclusive, and has emphasized mercy, joyful repentance, and community.
I try to remember Flannery O'Connor's message to a convert friend who felt he had made a big mistake in joining up. The gist was that as many people have suffered because of the Church as for it, and that if we all left, it could never right itself.
The challenge for me and for many liberal Catholic converts is to figure out how to find God despite so many messages telling you that you really aren't good enough to be a Catholic. Messages like this proliferate in these times of easy, swift, and often ill-considered communication!
About "...easy, swift, and often ill considered communication", I think it is good for the mind to participate in communication where one actually needs to form sentences and paragraphs in a coherent way, rather than quick phone texts or social media "shares".
DeleteHard to believe four years have passed already. I too value the relationships with all who post and comment here; I consider you my friends, even though we have not met in person. Especially during a time of limited in-person contact, such as we are going through during the pandemic, an online forum such as this helps me feel more connected to the larger world.
ReplyDeleteParish organizations tend to be task oriented. It is nice to be a part of a group where nothing is expected of one except discussion.
"Parish organizations tend to be task oriented."
DeleteThe parish model tends to that of the non-profit voluntary organization doing things rather than just being good friends and neighbors.
The research has shown that parish members want to experience, both in giving and receiving, the love and care of friends and neighbors rather than being task oriented which they associate with impersonal bureaucracies.
I value my friendships here and the voices I hear in this venue. You are all kind people whom I hope to eventually meet in person. Sorry about the loss of your CLC friend, Jack. I guess it goes, as they say, with the territory. I just lost a former supervisor and friend last week from COPD. This sort of thing seems to be happening more often.
ReplyDeleteOff topic, we got our first shot of the Moderna vaccine this morning. I was impressed at how well organized the procedure was. A volunteer greeted us at the entrance and found our name on the appointment list. We signed it and completed the questionnaire. A nurse gave the shots which were relatively painless. Another volunteer gave us our aftercare sheet and a vaccination card, which we will bring back when we get our second shot. We then sat in a holding area for 15 minutes to make sure we would have no reactions. It was pretty upbeat, we saw a few people we knew, and everyone seemed glad to be there. Our appointment was at 9:00 am and we were headed out by 9:30.
ReplyDeleteGlad that your experience like mine was positive. Unfortunately the bad experiences tend to get more publicity.
DeleteWe got ours at a Rite Aid Outlet Wednesday. Went into the store, had the shot in a closed area, sat for 10 minutes while we prepared the info packet and follow up appt. They were sanitizing between individuals and couples because they didn't want people getting covid in line. Moderna #2 April 6.
DeleteRelief over the shot has been overshadowed by ER visit and a root canal that revealed extensive oral surgery needed. This will wipe out a good chunk of retirement as our dental/Medicare will not pay for it.
We are sinking slowly into real poverty. We feel ashamed, overwhelmed, and know we live in a country where the lives of the elderly are held cheap. Our tendency is to withdraw in this trouble to save ourselves the pain of indifference.
No advice, please. It adds insult to injury. I write this only so that you all know what it feels like.
I will not be on here anymore.
Jean, that sucks, I'm sorry to hear about the oral surgery. I hope you will reconsider not being on here anymore, for the somewhat selfish reason that I enjoy and value your comments. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.
DeleteI will keep you in my prayers.
Jean, please stay with us
DeleteI remember commenting in the last days of the old Commonweal blog before we got this one, that I would especially miss your comments.
Since I'm sad and speechless, I'll just second Katherine and Jack's comments.
DeleteIt is unfortunately true that care of the teeth and supporting tissues, and to a degree, eye care, are holes in the healthcare system. It's as if these things are considered cosmetic rather than health needs. Anyone who has ever suffered, for example, from a tooth abscess, knows that the pain is beastly, and that not dealing with it is not an option. Similarly with gingival disease.
DeleteIt is something that we need to address as a society, especially now that we have an administration more tuned in to health care.
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ReplyDeleteAnne, I'm glad you made it back home safely. Three long days of driving would have been a grueling journey!
DeleteYeah, I have been thinking of Tom, too.
Thanks, Anne, for your response to Jean.
DeleteI especially appreciated your reminding us of your hearing loss. I remember you talked about it before. But it is not something that I have thought about much since. That is one of the advantages of this virtual world. In the “real” world that issue would likely intrude often, but here it is something that you can bring to the table when you want, or leave it in the distant background if you want. That is true of a lot of both the positive and the negative issues of our lives so we each and together can shape this community much more that we might be able in a face to face community like the Cleveland CLC where many aspects of members' lives more easy intrude into the shaping of the community, even in simple issues like whether a person can come to a meeting.
Jean, I can understand wanting to step back for a while. But PLEASE come back! I need your amazing insights and observations! You have no idea how often I have shared them with others - "My friend in Michigan wrote....."
DeleteI have missed Tom's voice here. All of us would really miss you too. Think of it as a ministry, one you can do from home, without exposing yourself to germs.
I deleted my first version of this because I realized that it is totally wrong for me to try to pressure you, Jean. You must do what is best for you. But I did want you to know how very much I value your comments on this site and how much I would miss them - and you.
I am just catching up as the second cross country drive (3 13+ hour days driving, 2 nights hotel) really exhausted me.
I very much value this little group. Each person has unique contributions based on their life experiences and everyone here makes me think. But I especially appreciate this group because of my hearing loss. I can no longer participate in in-person discussion groups or in Zoom groups. The hearing loss has made me feel very isolated, often lonely, as I have had to give up several of the activities that I used to enjoy.
I am very relieved that everyone is on track to be fully vaccinated soon (except for that youngster, Jim, but his turn is coming soon). I mentioned that last summer my brother and his wife in Arizona both had serious illnesses with Covid, but they came through it. However, my sister-in-law lost her brother to Covid in mid-January, 3 weeks after he was hospitalized. I'm taking a guess that he may have thrown caution to the wind and did some socializing for Christmas. He also lived in Arizona, near Sedona. My brother and his wife live in Scottsdale. Arizona folk were very opposed to masks and lockdowns, and I am guessing that he was in that political camp (as are my brother and his wife).
Maybe the second wave this winter made an impact. When we stopped for gas in Arizona heading east we saw that people were mask compliant in the convenience store, which was not the case when we passed through Arizona heading to California. We also saw mask compliance in Missouri - again, unlike in early December when nobody wore a mask in the convenience store/cafe/restrooms at the gas stop except employees (probably mandated by the boss).
It breaks my heart that Tom couldn't have avoided the virus for another couple of months -long enough to get vaccinated.
Stay safe everyone.
Jean - prayers ascending!
Jim, in catching up I think you mentioned the Cherry Blossom Festival in DC in one of your comments. Yes - it's a very big deal around here, centered on the Tidal Basin, where the Jefferson Memorial is located. See photo below. The trees there were the gift of the Japanese government. This year the festival activities will be virtual. But there are many areas in DC with cherries and we tend to avoid the Tidal Basin and its crowds, even in non-Covid years! The yearly challenge in organizing the festival is trying to guess whens the cherries will have peak flowers. Sometimes they miss completely. This year they expect the peak to be the first week of April, which is during the festival time period.
ReplyDeleteSince I DO consider all of you here to be friends, I would like to extend an invitation - IF you ever have the desire to visit The Nation's Capitol sometime in a post-Covid world, we offer bed and breakfast. We have 3 extra bedrooms, two extra bathrooms, so lots of space for guests. My email is on Jim M's email list. We provide excellent insider tours, both day and night tours. And even airport pickup service, unless you all want to take a nice road trip. Not nearly as far from the midwest and Pennsylvania as our trips to and from Los Angeles!
https://www.hertz.com/blog/travel/things-to-do/pretty-pink-guide-washington-dc-cherry-blossom-festival
https://nationalcherryblossomfestival.org/bloom-watch/
Whoops! The Nation's Capital " where the Capitol is located.
ReplyDeleteHopefully by then the barbed wire will be gone and people will be able to visit the Capitol again.
Sigh.