Photo from twitter.com
... or in whatever product Vice President Pence wears in his hair. As a rule, vice presidential debates aren't remembered for much. In this one, an insect stole the show in the last 15 minutes by landing on Pence's carefully groomed and apparently thoroughly gelled coiffure. Both candidates were on camera virtually the entire 90 minutes, so America, or at least the three in my family room, watched transfixed for several minutes as the fly sat there, or did whatever flies do when they land somewhere. Pence either was unaware of the visitor or is preternaturally disciplined because he seemingly did nothing to acknowledge its presence or shoe it away (although I thought I might have caught a couple of very surreptitious tosses of the head).
Among wags' comments: "The undecided fly made its choice". "There was a lot of buzz about tonight's performance." "Flies are known to land on [cow pies]."
On the whole, the two candidates were significantly better behaved than their running mates were last time out. A fair smattering of whoppers seemingly were told. Pence probably out-smoothed and out-unruffled Harris, but I thought Harris did fairly well. Not sure she'd be ready to go sit in the big chair behind the desk at this point in her development. But who among us ever is ready for that job?
Did you watch the debate? Did anything stick in the memory?
One comment about tonight: both candidates more or less stuck to the agreed-upon rules of debate and, more generally, of civil public life.
ReplyDeletePence was more of a rule-breaker than Harris was: he regularly ran past his allotted speaking time, although usually only by a minute or so in order to complete a thought or drive home a point. He also interrupted Harris once or twice, and at one point asked her a point-blank question about whether she and Biden plan to pack the court (to which Harris gave a non-answer). But after Trump's (and to some extent Biden's) complete ignoring of rules and structure in their debate, Pence's sins seemed pretty venial.
As for Harris, I'm struggling to recall a single time she did anything out of order. Of course, she is a courtroom veteran and has the discipline to work within the established procedure.
By contrast, Trump is a stampeding herd of bison. Trampling the rules is, as virtually anything/everything he does, instinctive and visceral. I really think it is part of his political appeal, for those to whom he appeals. The idea, roughly speaking, is: the rules are not fair and objective, and they don't bring about just outcomes. They are rigged - especially against me and those who follow me. Therefore, we will abolish the rules. We will not let them stop us or slow us down. Breaking the rules is part of draining the swamp.
I'm a cradle Catholic. I've had rule-following drilled into me from a very early age. I can barely bring myself to enter a grocery store aisle if the arrow on the floor is pointing in the other direction. But I'm probably more, well, anal about it than most other Americans are. I think a lot of Americans style themselves as people who don't follow the rules. O give me land lots of land under starry skies above, don't fence me in.
So I'm not sure who had the advantage tonight in this area: Harris the disciplined observer of protocol, or Pence who will stretch and bend the boundaries when it serves his purpose.
Jim, same here about being raised a rule-follower. That's why it's puzzling as to why a lot of Catholics are Trump supporters, since he is the primo non-rule follower.
DeleteI watched only the first hour, which is about what half of what a VP debate deserves. I had never seen Pence do more than stand two steps behind and one step to he left or right of The Don, so for me, seeing the Capo speak was like when Garbo spoke. The man seems capable of injecting insincere pomposity into ordering a sausage pizza when he really wanted anchovy. The walking definition of Oakland -- no there there. I mean, I didn't expect much and got way less.
ReplyDeleteHarris's bemused look, I think, probably matched mine. She had done a much better job of paring her thoughts to two minutes in practice debates. A couple of times I thought she must be thinking, "Pete [Buttigieg] delivered that line much better when we practiced this."
But I went to bed early, so, like Moises Alou, I missed the fly.
I was so angry with the last debate that I gave this one only thirty minutes to prove it was worth my time to watch. I left after 23 minutes.
ReplyDeleteAgain no one was in charge. The moderator was not doing her job well. This is in fact symbolic of the state of our nation, few individuals are willing to stand up to the Republican unwillingness to abide by rules whether in regard to the debate or the virus. They are doing more than bending the boundaries, they are endangering our civic life and health.
I was glad to see recently the both the New England Journal of Medicine and Science have recognized that things are so bad that they felt it necessary to take a political stand against what is going on.
Ah yes, but the medical journals will disappear under the tweets and the ten doctors, the same way Trump's debts did -- which I was glad to see Harris revive last night.
DeleteI didn't watch the debate, we watched a British Crime show, Waking the Dead, instead. I figured I'd catch up with the American crime show this morning.
ReplyDeleteAbout the fly, they seem to hang around a lot in the fall. Recently at a Mass we attended there was one buzzing around as things were getting started. It lit on the altar. Father whacked it with his missalette, kissed the altar, and read the entrance antiphon without missing a beat. At least it was better than bats flying around during Mass, which we have also had.
So latest drama, Trump backs out of next debate, because it was changed to remote (wise decision by debate coordinators) My take is, he still isn't feeling well and was looking for an excuse. So does that mean Biden gets 90 minutes? Or will he cancel too? Trump has said he would do a rally instead. He loves rallies, because he can say what he wants with no pushback. But is his health up to that, and is anyone else's health up to being in the same space with him?
ReplyDelete"Trump backs out of next debate"
Delete... at least for today. Presumably he's mentally reserving the right to change his mind in case of a change of circumstance. The most likely circumstance would be the threat of a negative story about him consuming a news cycle, in which case he would make a grand announcement, possibly from the Rose Garden and without anyone masked, that he has changed his mind.
Are negative stories about him in the triple digits yet? None of them seem to make much difference with his followers. Though I can see him doing the Rose Garden thing to prove how invincibly brave he is not to be cowed by a little virus.
DeleteKatherine, I think you asked after the first debate what's even the point of more debates. I think that's a good point to continue to ponder. People's views are so hardened at this point that I'm not sure what's the point, either. Folks tuning in seem to see and hear what they want.
DeleteCopncerning The Don's rejection of a virtual debate, Biden noted that The Don changes his mind all the time. Proving Biden's point, The Don announced that the stimulus talks with Congress he called off are back on.
DeleteAnd in other news, no one has seen his tax return and he sneers at the people who serve in our military forces. And a whole lot of other distractions from his greatness.
His bout with Covid has been a great distraction. He must love it. He’s proven that Covid is nothing to worry about and the tax and debate stories just disappeared. He couldn’t have planned it any better
DeleteIt's not over yet. I don't believe he's feeling great. Nobody else is when they're recovering from Covid. Even if they have a light case they're fatigued for several weeks.
DeleteKatherine, It took my brother and sister-in-law more than 6 weeks to even begin to feel normal, although they were certified covid free after 4 weeks. Of course, they weren't treated with the new drugs that aren't yet available to most people. However, the results do seem promising, so that's a good thing for the rest of us.
DeleteDidn't watch it because it won't make a difference in how I vote. As for Harris being ready for the "big chair," what a laugh. The Republican Party has set the bar so low by nominating and electing Trump that even Pence looks good by comparison. The Democratic Party is disorganized and outdated, but the Republican Party might as well hand out jack boots and nooses at this point. Stand by!
ReplyDeleteHarris, of course, is merely another Limousine Liberal with a privileged upbringing. Her mixed race heritage *may* make her slightly more able to identify with "regular people," who want decent wages and working conditions, not more hand-outs that too often end up relieving businesses of providing living wage-benefit packages. She also seems educable on global warming and other scientific issues. Her time in Canada may make her a little less hostile than some Dems to milder aspects of democratic socialism.
I did read the WaPo's updates of the debates in real time on the Web site. Didn't think I could take video, so stuck with just print. Sounds like it was decorous compared to the first presidential performance, but, then what wouldn't seem decorous compared to that?
According to the WaPo, Pence dodged a lot of questions, lied more times than Harris, and, according to Jim's post, was duly designated the minion of the Lord of the Flies.
Off topic. Asking for prayers for my cat Edgar, if it's not a heresy for Catholics to pray for animals. He has reached the end of his road with feline lymphoma, having been a lesson in patience, trust, and unfailing affection and good humor. Also prayers for the veterinarians and technicians who continue to do their work to relieve suffering despite the extra burdens of the pandemic.
Jean, praying for Edgar. So sorry to hear about his illness. Is he your 20 year old cat? I hate it when the sweet ones come to the end of the road. I even hate when the ornery ones do. I have a very sweet 16 year old cat. But after him we're done.
DeleteDefinitely not a heresy to pray for animals. Praying for Edgar now.
DeleteThank you, friends. I will miss Edgar, but it was a joy and privilege to be his person, and now he is in God's hands.
DeleteWe are not going out of our way to get more cats. But they always seem to find us ...
I can't believe Trump and Pence are still refusing to answer the question of whether they will accept the election results. I also can't believe they're being allowed to refuse to answer this question.
ReplyDeleteAh, but Biden and Harris won't answer the question about whether they will pack the Supreme Court. So it is a case of both sidesism.
DeleteTrump pence won't answer question about rejecting election results.
Of course, neither Harris nor Biden threatened to pack the court; that's an idea among their backers. Trump actually has threatened to not accept the results. Only in the minds of the Victorian gentleman (and Trumpoleons) that a distinction without a difference.
Trump pence also won't tell us who he owes a billion dollars. But heck, yesterday we couldn't get a consistent answer from him about either a) the stimulus or b) the next debate. So what will the Victorian geneleman do? Pound Biden about court packing, what else?
Jim, I lasted about 2 minutes. Harris brought up pre-existing conditions which would no longer be covered if Obamacare is neutered. She noted that while Trump had said that he would make sure that pre-existing conditions would still covered, he had not said how this would be accomplished. Pence shook his head sadly. when she said that. So the moderator asked him directly for the an explanation of how this would be accomplished. Pence then turned to Harris and asked her if then Democrats were planning to try to pack the court? He did not respond to the question at all. So I turned it off. No point in watching if it was just going to be stump speeches, spouting off the usual stuff, and not answering questions.
ReplyDeleteSort of funny; there was a picture on Facebook of Ruth Bader Ginsburg in her judicial robe and signature collar. The caption was "I sent the fly."
ReplyDelete