There is an interesting article on the Vox News site, entitled Is America Too Libertarian to Deal With the Coronavirus? The article is in the form of an interview, with Sean Illing, Vox journalist, and Keith Humphreys, a Stanford University professor.
"Humphreys’s basic claim is that any plan we adopt, no matter how wise, is useless without “widespread political consent” from American citizens. And the obsession with individual liberties in America, coupled with a general distrust of government, poses an enormous challenge to even the best conceivable plan.
Keith Humphreys: "Our Constitution was set up with checks and balances out of fear of the power of the state. And that libertarian streak is with us through everything and it also applies in the domain of health."
Humphreys goes on to say that he feels that we'll probably end up with something like Sweden's coronavirus policy. This is complicated by the fact that we don't have a national healthcare system, as Sweden does.
Humphreys said, "What I think is most likely is that a huge number of people contract this virus and we develop immunity over time. If that happens, the virus will diminish over time, but it won’t be because of our test, trace, and isolate efforts."
I have read several articles about Sweden’s approach. Those who were interviewed - different people in different articles - all made a point of saying that the Swedes trust their government, trust their institutions and could generally be relied on to cooperate with health measures. As an example, one noted that vaccinations for school are not mandated by law. The information is presented, vaccinations for children are recommended, and 98% of children are vaccinated by the time they start school. This provides herd immunity for children who haven’t been vaccinated, often because of a medical contraindication.
ReplyDelete98% is pretty amazing, especially since it isn't mandated. I imagine peer pressure to vaccinate is pretty strong.
DeleteI agree that Americans have a social trust deficit, and a deeply ingrained skepticism of government. Those traits won't change between now and, say, July. So they are constraints within which policymakers will need to work. For example: even if there is an appetite among Americans for cell phone tracking of their movements (and that's surely questionable), it seems likely that courts would restrict or prohibit it.
ReplyDeleteIn Illinois, the curves I've been tracking have been bending in the right direction for the last couple of weeks, so it seems likely that such social restrictions as we've been able to successfully impose are working. It also seems likely that, over time, public health officials are learning from the trial and error(s) that marked our early responses to the virus. For example, installing COVID-19-positive patients in nursing homes is, in retrospect, a bad idea.
All we can do is what is possible. If anyone asked me for my advice, it would be: let's make sure that, what is possible, we are actually doing.
PA is going from red to yellow phase on 29 May. Gyms, restaurants, theaters still closed for attendance. Churches can open with precautions. I'll check the Scranton Diocese website during the week to see what that means. Individualistic or not, there's the fear factor and some people care about others. So we'll see how this works out. Gov. Wolf wanted to do it in two weeks but the Repubs want everything opened now. So I guess one week is the compromise. I'm still thinking the little soccerballs from hell haven't gotten the memo.
ReplyDeleteWe started off well, with a "we're all in this together" spirit. Advertisers, with no place to sell, put up nice, fuzzy ads on TV hitting the theme, and the president lined up his experts to inform us overmuch on what was happening.
ReplyDeleteBut he can't help himself. The information morphed into political rally, which incited brainless showoffs to grab their guns and put on their camo, and now we have Culture Wars, Part XIV. It suddenly became well known in some circles that COVID 19 hasn't been as bad as the Hong Kong flu was, and we didn't close the country for that. (Not noted is the Hong Kong numbers similar to COVID numbers are for two years, while COVID is for four months. Facts have a liberal bias.)
And yesterday, Gen. Bonspur -- a man who goes to church only on Christmas and Easter and arrives late to accept the plaudits of the congregation, and who changed his place of worship from Episcopalian to I-don't-know-what-to-call-it because he didn't like an editorial about himself in Christian Century -- declared the churches to be "essential" and ordered them opened forthwith on the basis of neither authority nor sincerity.
Because of Culture Wars Parts I through XIII (thank you, Pat Buchanan), it was going to be touch and go whether a country with a Third World health care system could pull it together for a coronavirus, but Gen. Bonespur made it his business to destroy any effort to pull things together by making it not about Us, but about China, the governors, the lyin' press, the World Health Organization, Nancy Pelosi, Michael Flinn and, ultimately, himself and the banana Republicans. The first step on the road to perdition came when Kilroy decided to be the Marboro Man. It has been all downhill since then.
Really this is all about the love of MONEY dressed up as a love of liberty.
ReplyDeleteWe had to fight a long battle against the tobacco industry to bring down the number of deaths which were caused by their products, and another long battle with the auto industry about auto safety, and all the long battles about pollution. All sorts of people who are unwilling to admit their livelihoods are bringing death and illness to others. They were always willing to argue that people had the freedom to not smoke, or to buy more expensive and safer cars.
The battle about health care is another similar battle. The medical profession is making tons of money, so are the lawyers about malpractice, and so are the insurance companies. We have the most expensive health care system in the world but it does not cover everyone and it has shown itself to be not very good at dealing with this virus which is thriving in this country.
There are many people who are willing to risk their lives in the pursuit of money. We as Christians need to challenge them in their priorities for their own self- interest. Many of these people are very willing to risk the lives of others in their pursuit of money. Again we have to challenge them for their lack of love for others.
Included among those willing to risk their lives and the lives of others are our governments, and our churches. Our state governments and our churches are also hurting financially. They are reopening our economy and putting everyone at risk, especially the most vulnerable members of our society.
Jack, yes.
DeleteI Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
I do agree that greed is part of the motivation to reopen. But it's not the only one. There are people in every community who earn their families' livelihoods by running businesses. If those businesses die, as many of them surely will, they will be without incomes. That is not as bad as dying but it is still extremely stressful - it's probably terrifying for many of them. Hence the desire, now apparently constituting a consensus among our political leaders, to reopen slowly and with an abundance of safety measures in place. Our leaders are searching for a way to balance competing goods.
DeleteJim, I agree that some of our leaders are searching for a way to balance competing goods. That would be especially the governors and civil authorities. They actually have to deal with the mess on the ground. Trump on the other hand seems to be focused mainly on getting re-elected.
DeleteAnd yes, of course people are worried about their livelihoods. As retirees we are fortunate to be able to stay home. But we have been through layoffs and downsizings over the years and know that it is one of the more stressful experiences of life. A lot of small businesses were precarious before this started, and the pandemic will be the burden that broke the camel's back.
"I agree that some of our leaders are searching for a way to balance competing goods. That would be especially the governors and civil authorities. They actually have to deal with the mess on the ground. Trump on the other hand seems to be focused mainly on getting re-elected."
DeleteYes, I agree - although in the case of the great man, I think his motives are mixture of: his raging, titanic ego can't bear not to be re-elected; while the trembling little boy at the center of his being is calculating that if he can somehow stay in the White House another four years, that puts off his going to jail by that long. Otherwise, I think there is yet another part of him that would be glad to leave the hullabaloo aside and go back on television - just consider the ratings!
All that said, and in spite of everything emanating from the top of the org chart, the CDC's framework for phased reopening strikes me as sensible. No doubt, yet another instance of the Deep State out to get him. Oh well, it's a blessing to all of us that the ship of state continues to avoid many shoals despite its captain.
On a sort of related note (because the coronavirus caused it) check out piece on the America site in which people express what they have been missing about church since the quarantine. Some obvious things and some not so obvious. One person said she missed being able to stop in for a quiet moment of prayer. It was a surprise to me that in many locations "lockdown" actually means the churches were locked down, as in tighter than a drum, no admittance to the building. Here the churches were open to private prayer, during the day at least. There were never more than one or two people at a time. Completely sealed off church buildings seem like overkill.
ReplyDeleteI think my church has windows that open but I've never seen them open. Open air circulation would be a plus. Churches usually have high ceilings and therefore large volumes of air like supermarkets. But the usual density of people would have to be drastically lowered.
DeleteOur parish church was always locked down because the Church Ladies said satanists would steal the Host.
DeleteIt would take some serious muscle to break into the tabernacle in our church if you didn't have the key. Even with the key unless you turn it just right it's not easy.
DeleteOur church has been open for a week, with sanitizer at the door and periodic scrubs. Don't know how many took advantage of that. It would be an unpleasant walk for nearly any parishioner, being across a busy street from a bail bondsman, a gas station and a business that advertises "Girls All Girls XXX." We were locked down until now. Daily Mass resumes Monday.
DeleteWell, at least pedestrians headed to Tom's church have some reminder of the amusements they have to eschew ...
Delete"Come on in, gents. They're just wearin' a mask and the Republicans nothin'.
Delete"It would take some serious muscle to break into the tabernacle in our church if you didn't have the key. Even with the key unless you turn it just right it's not easy."
DeleteThat is very funny - and so true! In our place, they recently put a new lock on the tabernacle, for reasons I never learned, and if you don't insert the key just right, the lock doesn't turn. When our sacristans tried to open the tabernacle and couldn't, panic ensued, followed by anger - they were ready to go into armed-insurrection mode.
"They're just wearin' a mask and the Republicans nothin'."
... and that's even funnier!
The deacons have unlocking the tabernacle down pat. But I had to ask for help one time when I was taking Communion to the sick. One change since the lockdown is that the key is no longer kept in the sacristy (which is normally kept locked and only the staff has keys). I guess the priest keeps the tabernacle key with him all the time now.
DeleteOne thing that still needs to be worked out is ministry to the frail elderly who are advised not to come to church when we reopen. These people are the faithful ones who have persevered through all kinds of trials and tribulations. We need to do a better job of meeting their needs now.
DeleteKatherine, the Catholic Church near our house has been totally locked up also. I used to stop there as the midpoint of my daily walk for CP.
ReplyDeleteGeorgia's economy has not rocketed back despite the reopening. Individualistic or not, no one wants to get this thing. We will still have severe economic problems until a vaccine is developed. I don't know what can be done for small businesses except to give them startup funding when this is over, unless they can adapt.
ReplyDeleteCompliance in Michigan is crumbling. At this point, the governor would be better off opening up Everything with rules in place because she can't keep up with businesses going rogue and deciding to police themselves.
ReplyDeleteMeantime, this guy is running for the state legislature. I can't wait! https://www.mlive.com/news/2020/05/protester-explains-doll-noose-demonstration-at-capitol-wants-to-gift-props-to-trump.html
I agree. It may also put to rest the idea that it's the government, not the virus, that's causing this economic downturn. I just hope you can protect yourself, Jean, when the infection takes off. Proper measures seem to work well. The two nurses who got it bad in my reference hospital had husbands at home who had it and recovered. No other nurses in this intensely COVID facility got it. The precautions and procedures work very well.
DeleteThat naked Barbie doll with the noose stunt was beyond appalling. And then he goes on to defend burning or hanging someone in effigy as free speech. He'd better hope nothing happens to the governor, or anyone else he hangs in effigy, or he'd find himself as suspect number one.
DeleteAs far as I'm concerned, the more guys like.that running as Republicans, the better. The GOP Legislature was all for the protesters until that guy showed up and started making noise and talking up the Party of Trump. It shut them up for a few days.
DeleteI have masking, sanitizing, and spritzing down to a science. I can pick up meds and groceries curbside. The vet will even come to the car to get my cats, take them inside for checks, and bring them back out. My biggest concerns are monthly blood labs, yearly spleen and heart sonograms, and dentist.
DeleteI have found that the dentists and their staff handle things really well. As my dentist put it, "We're used to infection control, working in peoples' mouths all the time." The main change I noticed was the way they did things in the waiting room. All the magazines were gone, the chairs were spaced out for distancing. The receptionist was behind a see through shield, and they were doing verbal sign in, you never had to touch a pen.
DeleteI think it would be possible to avoid the waiting room altogether by just staying in the car and asking them to call your cell phone when they were ready for you to come in.
DeleteMy dentist is still not doing teeth cleaning. But bis website advertises extra COVID precautions. It shows a picture of him and an assistant in full gown wearing what looks like welder's masks. Also mentions negative pressure ventilation.
DeleteThe PTB in the D.C. Metro region are not seeing the progress they had expected by now, even in the suburbs outside of the city. They are not sure why.
ReplyDeleteWe have not gone out much. I have been to the grocery store twice in two months. Yesterday I went with my husband to Lowe's to pick up an order. I did not see a single person in the parking lot at Lowe's without a mask. Nobody walking in or out of the store without a mask. At the grocery store everyone wore a mask and followed the arrows. When I was loading my car a man got out of his truck and walked into the store without a mask. About 20 seconds later he came out. Walked to his truck, got his mask and went back inside.
The people in our part of our county may pay more attention to the science than those in some other areas. We live just a few miles from NIH, The National Institutes of Standards and Technology, several other scientific federal agencies and the dozens of private companies that support them as contractors. A lot of scientists live in this area of the county, and a lot of non-scientists also work for the science-oriented federal agencies and companies and soak up knowledge indirectly. In that we are fortunate. But when the rules disappear, it still may be less safe to go out than it is now in our community.
It is clear that demographic factors besides education play into all of this. As is true elsewhere, the D.C. area communities with the worst outbreaks are in the less affluent parts of the Metro region. I don't think that the excessive libertarian instincts that drive non-compliance in Michigan and elsewhere are a factor here. It may have more to do with English language facility, the reach of health related information to the local immigrant communities, the numbers who are still working outside the home, and the more crowded living conditions with a lot of people living in one home. These factors are seen in all the hotspots around the country. More poor people die than do the affluent. I read that one problem at the first Smithfield plant to have to close included the failure to provide personal sanitation instructions in any language but English. The workforce there involves people who speak 40 different languages and live in very crowded housing. There are ways all of the critical information could have been conveyed without having to translate the written materials into dozens of languages. But apparently this wasn't tried until after several hundred workers got sick.
The cultural characteristics of communities and of countries seem highly correlated with the success or failure to control the course of the infection. Those with the highest risk of mortality if infected in our nation will have to look out for ourselves due to inept national government and very low levels of concern for the community among some of our fellow citizens.
It's going to be a very long year for some of us. I am not as high risk as my husband. But to protect him, I also have to stay locked down.
BTW, did any of you see Jim McCrea's link about how some African countries are handling things? Not as badly as we might think, given the poverty and state of basic healthcare. It was said that Senegal is developing an at-home Covid test which is supposed to cost $1 each. If it works, this could be a game changer. If they can do it, we should be able to as well.
ReplyDeleteNo chance of that happening here @ $1 each; no profit to be made.
DeleteToday we had a good lesson in why America can't deal with coronavirus. The poseur who declared on Friday that churches are "essential" spent the day ... on the golf course. I'll bet his pastor was disappoi... what? Oh, that's right. Religion may be essential but he doesn't have a pastor. He is a worshipee, not a worshiper.
ReplyDeleteHe's an acolyte in the cult of hyrdoxochloroquine.
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