Pew Research Center: The Digital Pulpit
|
|
Length
in minutes |
Word
Count |
|
All |
37 |
5,502 |
|
Black
Protestant |
54 |
6,139 |
|
Evangelical |
39 |
5,038 |
|
Mainline |
25 |
3,251 |
|
Catholic |
14 |
1.847 |
|
|
|
|
I don’t think I have heard many homilies that go over 14 minutes because they would challenge the unwritten rule that the Mass should not exceed 60 minutes. Now I suspect good homilists, and/or those who are just so proud of their homilies that they post them do test the limits.
Jim might like to try out a 14 minute, 1847 word homily sometime. In addition he might want to try out the Black Protestant tradition within the 14 minutes. at his current 1230 words. Black Preachers speak slower because they allow more congregational participation.
Jack, that is very interesting analysis. A few miscellaneous thoughts:
ReplyDeleteOne thing that affects the length of the homily or sermon is how it is situated in the overall service. For a Catholic mass, the homily is just one part of the Liturgy of the Word, which in turn is just one major component of the Mass. In some other churches, the homily is more prominent - it is the "main event" of the service, and the length reflects that prominence. I believe a Catholic liturgist would tell us that, even apart from people's diminishing attention spans, a homily that runs too long risks its becoming "out of proportion" to its relative importance in the Mass. To be sure, it seems from these numbers that the Protestant denominations, which also are largely/mostly liturgical, preach nearly twice as long as Catholic preachers. Whether those denominations all have Eucharist at their services, and whether the Eucharist has the same prominence for them as it does for Catholics, I am not sure.
At our parish, homilists hear about it from the parishioners if the homilies are perceived to run too long. Our pastor, who in my view is quite a good homilist, hears remarks because he will preach sometimes as long as 12-15 minutes.
In my earlier days as a deacon, my homilies ran longer than they do now (Jack, your estimate of 9.5 minutes is right on the nose; I practice my delivery and time myself to ensure it's not taking too long). I'd hear about it from my wife and children - and if they were making remarks about the length, I am assuming that other parishioners were thinking the same thing, albeit they are too polite (most of them, anyway) to say something directly to me.
Other cultures within Catholicism preach longer than American priests and deacons do. There was an article a few years ago, which I don't think I could find now, about the experience of an African priest who came to the US and was given a parish assignment. In Africa, he was accustomed to preaching for 20-25 minutes. When he began his assignment in the US, he preached at that length; his American parishioners were aghast :-).
Btw, I'm prouder of some of my efforts than others :-). I've made a personal commitment to post them all here, whether they're good, bad or indifferent. Naturally, people are free to skip over them if that sort of thing isn't of interest.
"For a Catholic mass, the homily is just one part of the Liturgy of the Word, which in turn is just one major component of the Mass." Jim, you are correct in this, and I think it accounts for some of the variations in length among denominations. For instance, among Evangelicals, the homily (actually it more fits the definition of "sermon") is not just part of the service, it often IS the service. I have gone to church with some of my Evangelical relatives, and it's not unusual for the sermon to top the 45 minute mark. One really needs to get up and stretch after one of those! And not all denominations follow a liturgical calendar such as ours, with the Scripture readings laid out. Sometimes the homilist picks his own Scripture readings based on what he is preaching on. Lets just say that I prefer our way of doing things.
DeleteFor what it's worth, some priests in my youth used to pass the 30 minute mark. Afterwards, we never heard, "Father gave such an excellent homily!" It was more likely to be, " Man, I thought he was never gonna quit!"
I have been known to suggest that my husband shorten a homily that was in the planning stages. 7-10 minutes is about right.
I think our unofficial American 60 minute limit is about right (for us). Actually I kind of like the daily Masses, which have a 2-5 minute thought bullet for a homily.
DeleteI do think that the diminishing attention span is real. It has happened to me, too.
ReplyDeleteThe difference in length of sermons does reflect differences in worship among denominations. Mainline churches like us have a liturgical calendar and set readings. Many of them now have Eucharist although before Vatican II they usually did not. In general the sermon is the high point with the reading leading up to it and the communion taking place afterward. Many Catholics rightly see our Mass becoming too Mainline Protestant if we overemphasize the homily, especially since our four hymns are often geared to the readings. Communion becomes an after thought. One of the ways around that is a sung Eucharistic Prayer which in my experience is very effective. But most priests do want to sing that much if at all.
ReplyDelete"But most priests do not want to sing that much if at all."
DeleteAnd I would venture to say most laypeople don't want to listen to them attempt it.
Katherine, Amen!
DeleteEvangelicals are a different ballgame since they have no liturgical year calendar or set readings. It is often difficult to tell when the sermon begins or ends since it occurs among hymns, and perhaps even "witnessing" by lay people.
ReplyDeleteOur sixty minute Mass rule likely originated when we had many back to back Masses often just 90 minutes apart. That left fifteen minutes to get out of the parking lot before the next wave came in. I have noticed that Masses tend to be a little longer now that most Masses in our local parishes are two hours apart.
Even earlier in pre-Vatican II days when there were more Masses, and no vigil Masses, sometimes there was a Mass every hour. In those days however most Masses were low Masses (some might have had a hymn or two) and the priest could speed through the Masses in Latin while the people read their missals or prayed the rosary.
So our American cultural history has led to a strong expectation of a Mass that lasts one hour or less. Eastern traditions usually take 90 minutes to two hours, as well as many other ethic traditions. On the first Sunday of Advent Pope Francis said Mass for the Congolese community in Rome at Saint Peters. But he specified beforehand that it would not be their normal 4 hour Mass. They spend a lot of time singing and dancing!
Jack, sorry, I didn't see your comment before I posted my comments about Evangelical differences.
DeleteAbout the Eastern traditions, some of my late brother-in-law's family were Syrian Orthodox. My sister went to a few of their services, and said it wasn't unusual for people to straggle in after the Mass was well under way. The old people typically were there for the whole thing, but the younger ones with kids attended a rather truncated part of it.
There is a black Catholic parish in Oakland, CA (St. Columba) where it is expected that the mass will take a minimum of 90 minutes, and maybe longer, depending on the music selections and the time it takes the homilist to make her/his (yes, I said her!) point. People who are regulars would be shocked to experience anything less than that. About 30-40% of those in attendance are white and I have never seen anyone fidgeting and looking at watches or walking out after the obligatory 60 minutes of getting one's ticket punches.
DeleteOne of the most interesting parts of the article to which Jack links are the lists of words that appear most frequently in preaching. It provides the list of words most frequently used across all types of churches, and also the words most frequently used within each type of church. For Catholics, the top five words are:
ReplyDeleteSay
Know
God
People
Life
... which isn't a bad list at all.
The study also provides lists of distinctive words and word combinations for each faith tradition: words that are used relatively frequently within that tradition, but hardly at all by the other traditions. For Catholics, that list consists of:
Homily
Diocese
Eucharist
Paschal
Parishioner
I'm not entirely sure what to make of that list. I'd note that methodological limitations might have influenced it. For example, the sample was collected during a period of time that spanned the Easter season (and presumably the Triduum), which may well account for the the prominence of "Paschal". "Homily" was sort of disconcerting for me, especially considering it is at the very top of the Catholic-distinctive list. It seems a little self-referential; I don't like homilies in which the preacher talks about his struggle to come up with a homily. But the authors of the study note that the technology they used to collect the sermon data from church websites couldn't always cleanly separate the content of the homily itself from ancillary/adjacent materials of the service.
By contrast to the Catholic-distinctive list, the list of Evangelical words and phrases includes:
Eternal hell
Lose ... salvation
Trespass ... sin
Home ... heaven
Absent ... body
A very different list than the Catholic list.
A Black Protestant minister (Church of God in Christ -- COGIC) once explained to me how his 50 minutes worked. For the first 30 he heard "amen" starting quietly, but growing. As he hit his stride from 25 minutes or so to 40, he heard "Tell it, Pastor." At 40 minutes, the "Bring it home now" began. If he went past 50, it became, "We SAID, 'bring it home.'"
ReplyDeleteHe had only one service. Catholics have too many because we are controlled by the parking lot. On the high holy days (Ash Wednesday, Palm Sunday, Easter and Christmas -- you have a problem with those being the four?) the parking lot becomes unmanageable. One close observer insists Catholics don't know anything about their faith because they get only seven minutes of instruction on Sunday. Fourteen minutes would be Squirm City here with great crashes at the door as people fight their way in against the tide of people coming out.
I think he is right. Baptists have an extra hour of Sunday School or Bible Study on Sundays or Wednesday evenings or (for the fervent) both, in addition to their Sunday service and are none the worst for it. If we tried it, we'd probably just get more nones.
"If he went past 50, it became, "We SAID, 'bring it home.'""
DeleteThat is very funny!
I wish Catholic assemblies were more feedback-y like that. All that passive stoicism is hard to read.
Jim, I do, too. I notice that when we have visiting priests for missions and the like, they open their talks with three jokes. Apparently they know from experience that Catholics won't realize they have permission to laugh until the third joke. And that's just to get laugh out of them. Asking for an "amen" might empty the pews.
DeleteI was away from the blog for a few days. I see that there was a post on the Malick film about Franz Jagerstatter. In case you'd want to know more about Jagerstatter, there's a very good essay about him by Jim Forest here: https://jimandnancyforest.com/2008/09/jagerstatter/
ReplyDeleteForest has written biographies of Dorothy Day, Thomas Merton and Daniel Berrigan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Forest
I wonder if many people who complain about a 12-15 minute homily being "too long" are also people who still show up on Sundays out of a misguided sense of obligation.
ReplyDeleteI attended a nondenominational church for many years and was consistently blessed with regular expository sermons that challenged the listener and the intellect.
I have come to believe the following:
A short bad homily is like an eternity in hell.
A longer good homily is like a brief taste of heaven.
Most Episcopal services that I have attended are similar to similar to Catholic masses in that the homily is an integral part of the entire liturgy. Their length is irrelevant because so many that I have heard (many by women rectors) have been vastly superior to what I have heard in Catholic churches.