I don't think I'm a cold fish. If someone wants a hug, I'll generally oblige. But, ever since I became a public minister of the church, I've noticed that people, including perfect strangers, possess a license, or think they do, the existence of which I was previously unaware, to reach out and touch me.
I mentioned in my previous post that a lot of people at church this past Sunday slapped me on the shoulder or the back in the course of making a witticism about the snow. I don't mind that too much. Although I might, if I had a sore shoulder. In fact, I have a sore back at the moment, but it's lower back pain, and people don't generally slap me there. Luckily, they haven't resorted yet to the fanny slaps that one sees on football fields.
What was more egregious was last year when I grew a beard for a couple of months. For the first week or so, when the beard still lacked definition, everyone presumably thought I was just a little more unkempt than usual but kept their personal remarks to themselves (and, probably, their spouses). But once it became clear that I hadn't simply lost my razor and was actually growing out the beard, it was surprising how many people would walk right up to me, reach up to my chin, give the beard a friendly little stroke or muss, and say in a jocular tone, "Hey, what's that on your face?" or some such. I don't object to that sort of thing so strenuously as to say something about it or even to recoil - but I have to say, I would never in a million years do that to another person, especially if we're just on acquaintanceship terms. Both of my sons have beards, and I don't reach out and touch their faces.
I remember reading, a number of years ago, an article in the Wall Street Journal about office etiquette for pregnant women. One expecting woman reported that, at the end of an executive briefing, the president of the company reached out, patted her on her belly, and said goodbye to the baby.
Anyway, what's up with this? I knew cats don't respect personal space, but it seems it's becoming a scarce resource interpersonally as well.
I hear you, Jim. My husband doesn't so much mind the touching as the personal remarks. And when they don't make them to him, they make them to me, about him. I am really tired of telling people that no, he doesn't have Parkinson's Disease, he has benign familial tremor that makes his hands shake a bit. And they ask, "..did he ever get checked out by a doctor for that hoarsness? My cousin had throat cancer, and that's how it stared." And I have to say, "No it's just seasonal allergies" , when I feel like saying, MYOB. I suppose it's an expression of concern, the priests probably get it, too. But that's not as bad as the time he gave a greeting in Spanish before Mass. We have a few immigrant families (not as many as the parish that hosts the Spanish Mass). I heard a lot of "Why did he feel it necessary to do that?" I as you say, I wouldn't dream of asking some of the questions that people come up with.
ReplyDeleteThe clergy and the pastoral staff are victims of their own advertising. Most parishes talk about themselves as being family and community, i.e. what we social scientists call primary organizations.
ReplyDeleteIf the parish were a true primary organization you would interact with people not only in their church roles, but also in all their family roles, and all their business and community roles. That may have happened in some of the neighbor ethic communities decades ago, but the reality is that a parish is in the religion business. Most people do not know that much about all the other aspects of their fellow parish members.
However the advertising is there, and members may think that the pastoral staff know them well, e.g. through marriages, funerals, etc. The familiarity is a very natural reaction.
Actually the clergy in particular may benefit from it. If we viewed the homily, Mass, etc. as professional productions we might be far more critical of them than we are at least publicly. In private there is a lot of dissatisfaction.
In recent years I have found that women pastoral staff members are overly familiar with me. Maybe its my age and walking stick. I don't appreciate being hugged. That is something I have always reserved for family. I cannot recall ever being hugged in the mental health system even though I had many close professional friends. We kept our friendship very professional.
ReplyDeleteJim, the etiquette for pregnant women should not be only for the office. You have no idea how many pregnant women have to endure people, including people they have just met, patting their bellies. And then, a few months later, touching their babies - patting their cheeks or their heads or whatever is exposed to the near strangers admiring them.
ReplyDeletePeople mean well, but...... Of course, a lot of it is cultural, including the proper amount of physical space even when just conversing. The peoples of Latin countries are known for having more "warmth" than those of the northern countries. And, of course, different religious groups have their own etiquette rules regarding touching, and even physical space while talking. The father of a friend of one of my sons is an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, complete with payot (somewhat like side only dreadlocks). Even though reminded of Jewish Orthodox male-female etiquette by another mom at an event we were all attending, I put out a hand to shake when introduced. Of course, I felt like an idiot when he did not shake my hand. But, I'm sure he was no more offended by my gesture than I was by his lack of the normal response.
An African American friend and former colleague, working in a small office where everyone but him was white, and who is married to a German white woman, once mentioned to me how shocked he was at first by how "cold' most whites are, even among close friends and family - "cold" to him not because he was black, but even with each other. One of my daughters-in-law is African American, and so we attend a lot of mixed-race social gatherings because of that. Their black friends and family are generally "warmer" and those who have met us at least once before express physical warmth to us (hugs) far more frequently than their white friends do, even though we have also met them on a number of occasions.
What about the Irish good-by when leaving a family gathering. It takes three hours! Kissing, hugging, words of advice, admonitions to the young along with a dollar.
ReplyDeleteI like to hug people, but I know that some people don't like it so I don't unless I know them pretty well. There is one priest in our parish who gives very witty sermons (or so I think), and if he's at the back of the church after, I pat him on the back and say, "good work!" I have never thought he might object; I'll ask him.
African-Americans: There is a wonderful woman in our aging-in-place group who is a great organizer and doer. The first time we met to organize something, she through her arms around me and announced it was so great we would be working together...That made me very happy! And I do whatever she asks.
Oh, yes, the Irish good bye.
DeleteStart moving toward the door two hours before your departure time because first someone will have to "put a lunch on," extract promises to "call when you get home," hang onto you while they demand that you "at least think about what I said," and follow you to the car to tell you "one last thing that damned Jimmy got himself into last week."
God help me, I do the same thing to The Boy every time I see him.
Sounds pretty much like the Nebraska farm goodbye. We'd all stand out in the yard for half an hour, and say, "Well we really have to get going." And then hugs all around, and then somebody would think of something else to say, and it would be another 15 minutes. Then hugs again, and finally company would leave. The ones staying home would wave till they were out of sight. Unless it was my mother-in-law, who would never watch someone go out of sight. Because once her mother had done that, and she never saw that person alive again.
DeleteSometime I'll write about my mom's charism of hospitality, and why I will never ever stay at an air b&b.
When my in-laws left, it was always, "OK, we gotta get home. See ya." That was it. No lingering. You could tell when they were sick of you because they turned the TV on loud. So the good-byes at my family drove Raber nuts. If he tried to hurry things up, there would be the inevitable, "Stay the night and start out fresh in the morning!" which meant leaving at 2 p.m. after talking over the news in the Sunday paper and having brunch.
DeleteThis is a very cultural thing. I used to mind; now I probably am an offender. Our parish is pretty Italian when it's white and quite Hispanic when it's brown. We've always overdone the Our Father, holding hands across the aisles even back when we weren't as brown. When Joe Biden got into trouble for hugging, one of our more sedate members (older than I) wrote to the local newspaper and said, and said if you don't want his hugs, just tell him you hate him and walk away.
ReplyDeleteMore seriously, Mona Charen, I believe, who often has brilliantly lucid moments, pointed out that people who touch no one and nothing their phones all day end up with terrible psychological problems and end up voting for Trump.
And then there are individual cases. Ellen Grimes, who is in her late 80s and shrinking every year, and I, who am still over 6' have always greeted each other with loud cries of "Blackburn!""Grimes!" and big hugs. She started it.
DeleteWhen I was pregnant, I was not offended by the touching, though it didn't get out of hand. If we're pro-life, we might see in these gestures a welcome and solicitude for the unborn. People at work used to grab my arm unasked to escort me to my car on snowy days so I wouldn't fall down and hurt the baby.
ReplyDeleteI was much more offended when some jerk came into a meeting late and started griping about the "pregnant woman out to here taking up space on the plane."
I was sitting at the conference table so he couldn't see my bulk. I let him go on for awhile and then heaved myself up in an exaggerated manner to get some coffee when he was done griping.
My boss said later, "You did that on purpose, didn't you?"
Yup.
:)
DeleteSince we are mentioning ethnicities, my friend in Iceland posted this. I told her that watching the soccer coaches of Iceland and Italy was EXACTLY like watching a hockey game between the Italian east end of the Upper Peninsula and the Scandinavian west end. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LmRr-x8Cwgo
ReplyDeleteLoved it.
ReplyDeleteI let him go on for awhile and then heaved myself up in an exaggerated manner to get some coffee when he was done griping.
My boss said later, "You did that on purpose, didn't you?"
Yup.
In case anyone wants to read up on this subject, here's...
ReplyDelete..."Some 10 [50! years] years ago Edward T. Hall, a cultural anthropologist, wrote The Hidden Dimension (Hall, 1966),a book that focused on how different cultures used space and the physical environment. This book appeared during a period when social and behavioral scientists and environmental-design professionals were joining forces to study the relationship between human behavior and the environment."
I found this book fascinating. I must have read it to find out why some people would stand nose-to-nose on the subway while others barricaded themselves behind shopping bags, purses, brief cases, etc. It also touches on how different groups arrange their living space...couches? pillows on the floor? everyone gathered? everyone apart?
Jim, you could analyze your parishioners behavior and predict their ethnic background. Stand back!
In addition to ethnicity there is the introvert/extrovert spectrum. I'm guessing that you can find both in any ethnicity, though maybe one or the other is predominant. I'm an introvert, and while I don't mind people hugging me, after they're done, I want them to give me a couple of feet of space. I guess my ethnicity is north European, so maybe that is part of it.
DeleteA while ago we were discussing how we say goodbye. When my oldest granddaughter was little, she did not want to say goodbye at all. She would hide in her room and cry. Her parents were upset, because it seemed rude, but we encouraged them to just let it go and she would grow out of it. She did. I think in part it was separation anxiety, she was afraid she wouldn't see the family members who were leaving again.
I just adapt to the other person, mirror them. I don't initiate like Biden. Regular dancing requires physical contact but not anything extreme. With a good follower, I can communicate my lead with only fingertip contact. There's one West Coast Swing pattern that requires pressure on the partner's hip but I take the lady's hand to do it and no direct touch is required. Now, Argentine Tango is something else. I would have to be at least engaged to my dance partner to do that one.
DeleteHugs ("abrazos") and kisses on the cheek are so common here (El Salvador) that one becomes accustomed to giving and receiving them -- so much so that if I ever moved back to the U.S., I might get arrested and placed in a re-education camp. :-) :-)
ReplyDeleteOne of the things I discovered when I moved to the SF Bay Area (1979) was the degree of comfort that gay men had with embracing friends upon meeting, and departing. Even people who met as strangers would hug at the initial departure. I now notice this to be rather common among men who know each other irrespective of orientation.
DeleteI will be Bach in the upper Midwest in June and there it ain't necessarily so, but my family is learning.