Lobelog has this up by Graham Fuller, looking at the background relations of Turkey and Saudi Arabia, and Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East. Informative and helpful.
Thanks for linking that article, Margaret. I hadn't realized the extent of the ideological gulf between Turkey and Saudi Arabia. The article points out the irony of the greater impact of this single case than all the Yemeni civilians killed by Saudi military operations. As Joseph Stalin allegedly said, "The death of one person is a tragedy; that of millions is a statistic." Here are a couple of other links; the first is by David Ignatius concerning what did US spy agencies know, and when did they know it. This sentence stood out: "The committees should review every Saudi-related item included in the President’s Daily Brief since Trump took office. If the brief missed important developments, why?" Does Trump even read his daily brief? Does anyone else in his administration? The other link is by Marc Thiessen, entitled "How Not to Modernize Saudi Arabia". Ordinarily Thiessen is not one of my favorite columnists. But here he says some of the same things the Fuller article did.
History helps here: The Ottoman Empire was by the beginning of the twentieth century a very ramshackle kind of empire, but it still controlled the Arabian Peninsula, and the Saudis were a tribe among tribes. A fascinating account of the peninsula's history from 1914 is Lawrence in Arabia (not of Arabia) and Dessert Queen respectively about Thomas Lawrence and Gertrude Bell--all about the Brits mucking about. When the Ottoman Empire was disappeared in that war and modern Turkey emerged much shorn of its holdings, it quickly became under Kemal Attaturk a country on its way to being a modern nation.
I thought Lawrence in Arabia was terrific, and Lou Salome, who covered that part of the world for 10 years, said it was one of the best he had read on the subject. The gall and effrontery of mid-level British and French diplomats picking winners and losers (when not double-crossing each other) in the breakup on the Ottoman Empire is a reminder of the days when lesser breeds were assumed to know their place.
Also: The only question Ignatius left out was: Did the joint touching, with the king, of wand to orb so twist the President's mind that he will never criticize employers of body-slammers?
"Iran of course is the alleged sinister threat constantly trumpeted by Riyadh—and Israel—a policy designed ultimately to bring the US into a war with Iran."
Yup. Iran, with its "death to America" chants, offers the Saudis a way to distract the U.S. from Saudi human rights repression. And it gives Israel handy visuals that illustrate Islam's purported hatred of the West. We are being played by both nations.
The Saudis are claiming that Khashoggi's death happened because of a physical alteration gone bad. According to this Trump is buying it. Alrighty then. I've heard it said that you shouldn't take a knife to a gunfight. What about bringing a bone-saw to a fist fight?
Yeah, every journalist is willing to duke it out with 15 people named Abdul, Ahmed and Akbar, no last names, all of whom have been imprisoned and will shortly be beheaded for accidentally knocking the opposing pugilist down next do the consulate's dining room anvil, where he, alas, hit his head. That explanation works for Trump, and if it works for Trump, Jared is solvent.
Check out the Times story (below). Yes, no names, no last names. BUT it suggests that there could be a family uprising...and the fifteen arrestees,who did what they were told to do! Maybe not that messy. Will they go quietly into that good night. Maybe. Maybe not.
Or...too much reading of espionage novels: The Saud family is offering all this info, facts, gossip, hints, opinions, as an invitation to Trump & Co. to depose the prince. They can't manage that, but Trump could! they seem to hope.
Of course, the Israelis could knock him off in a minute, but not likely. Honestly, if this were a movie it would get reviews such as: "not credible," "beyond the borders of reality, etc." "cheap theatrics," "chain-saw movie," etc.
Two NYTimes reporters, one in Istanbul and the other in Beirut give a pretty thorough run-down of the situation of the Saud family in responding to the murder. Good work. Good reporting. Strong hints that King Salman may have dementia. The reporters: Ben Hubbard and David Kirkpatrick.
Mark Shields points out that Tiny's closest dictators in the whole world are, all three, men -- Putin, Kim and King Salman -- who have had people they don't like killed in other people's countries. Somewhere John Adams is crying.
Thanks for linking that article, Margaret. I hadn't realized the extent of the ideological gulf between Turkey and Saudi Arabia. The article points out the irony of the greater impact of this single case than all the Yemeni civilians killed by Saudi military operations. As Joseph Stalin allegedly said, "The death of one person is a tragedy; that of millions is a statistic."
ReplyDeleteHere are a couple of other links; the first is by David Ignatius concerning what did US spy agencies know, and when did they know it. This sentence stood out: "The committees should review every Saudi-related item included in the President’s Daily Brief since Trump took office. If the brief missed important developments, why?" Does Trump even read his daily brief? Does anyone else in his administration?
The other link is by Marc Thiessen, entitled "How Not to Modernize Saudi Arabia". Ordinarily Thiessen is not one of my favorite columnists. But here he says some of the same things the Fuller article did.
History helps here: The Ottoman Empire was by the beginning of the twentieth century a very ramshackle kind of empire, but it still controlled the Arabian Peninsula, and the Saudis were a tribe among tribes. A fascinating account of the peninsula's history from 1914 is Lawrence in Arabia (not of Arabia) and Dessert Queen respectively about Thomas Lawrence and Gertrude Bell--all about the Brits mucking about. When the Ottoman Empire was disappeared in that war and modern Turkey emerged much shorn of its holdings, it quickly became under Kemal Attaturk a country on its way to being a modern nation.
DeleteI thought Lawrence in Arabia was terrific, and Lou Salome, who covered that part of the world for 10 years, said it was one of the best he had read on the subject. The gall and effrontery of mid-level British and French diplomats picking winners and losers (when not double-crossing each other) in the breakup on the Ottoman Empire is a reminder of the days when lesser breeds were assumed to know their place.
DeleteAlso: The only question Ignatius left out was: Did the joint touching, with the king, of wand to orb so twist the President's mind that he will never criticize employers of body-slammers?
Delete"Iran of course is the alleged sinister threat constantly trumpeted by Riyadh—and Israel—a policy designed ultimately to bring the US into a war with Iran."
ReplyDeleteYup. Iran, with its "death to America" chants, offers the Saudis a way to distract the U.S. from Saudi human rights repression. And it gives Israel handy visuals that illustrate Islam's purported hatred of the West. We are being played by both nations.
Many thanks, it's the best thing I've read so far on this incident.
ReplyDeleteThe Saudis are claiming that Khashoggi's death happened because of a physical alteration gone bad. According to this Trump is buying it. Alrighty then. I've heard it said that you shouldn't take a knife to a gunfight. What about bringing a bone-saw to a fist fight?
ReplyDelete"Alteration" should be altercation.
DeleteYeah, every journalist is willing to duke it out with 15 people named Abdul, Ahmed and Akbar, no last names, all of whom have been imprisoned and will shortly be beheaded for accidentally knocking the opposing pugilist down next do the consulate's dining room anvil, where he, alas, hit his head. That explanation works for Trump, and if it works for Trump, Jared is solvent.
DeleteCheck out the Times story (below). Yes, no names, no last names. BUT it suggests that there could be a family uprising...and the fifteen arrestees,who did what they were told to do! Maybe not that messy. Will they go quietly into that good night. Maybe. Maybe not.
DeleteOr...too much reading of espionage novels:
DeleteThe Saud family is offering all this info, facts, gossip, hints, opinions, as an invitation to Trump & Co. to depose the prince. They can't manage that, but Trump could! they seem to hope.
Of course, the Israelis could knock him off in a minute, but not likely. Honestly, if this were a movie it would get reviews such as: "not credible," "beyond the borders of reality, etc." "cheap theatrics," "chain-saw movie," etc.
Two NYTimes reporters, one in Istanbul and the other in Beirut give a pretty thorough run-down of the situation of the Saud family in responding to the murder. Good work. Good reporting. Strong hints that King Salman may have dementia.
ReplyDeleteThe reporters: Ben Hubbard and David Kirkpatrick.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/19/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-jamal-khashoggi.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Strong editorial in Washington Post: "The Saudi explanation for Jamal Khashoggi's death is a fable. Still Trump plays along."
ReplyDeleteI don't have the link.
This link to the editorial via the Stamford Advocate doesn't appear to be behind a pay wall.
DeleteMark Shields points out that Tiny's closest dictators in the whole world are, all three, men -- Putin, Kim and King Salman -- who have had people they don't like killed in other people's countries. Somewhere John Adams is crying.
ReplyDelete