I know I overdo promptness, but it seems as if society in general doesn't know such a thing exists. I am weary of being stepped on in passing while the show is in progress or sitting through a 20-minute recap of the first 20 minutes "for those who were late."
Back in the Grant administration, or so, I reviewed all the professional theater in Philadelphia and everything in New York that had a central Jersey connection. It was not too unusual to see a show in Philadelphia on Thursday, another in New York on Friday and sleep in my own bed both nights. Now, back in those days there were different rules for different theater towns.
(Stay with me; these thoughts will go to church.)
In Philadelphia people came late. It was not unusual for an 8 p.m. opening night curtain to rise at 8:20 or 8:25 as people mingled in the lobby, waited for someone who was parking the car and debated checking their coats.
In New York, the curtain went up at 8.p.m. ready or not. There may be a blizzard, King Kong may be climbing the Empire State building, it didn't matter. Starting at the stroke of 8 you couldn't get into the house until a scheduled slow-down in the action 15 or 20 minutes into the first act.
Sort of as an aside, the opening number in "42nd Street" had of the curtain rise slowly to show 50 pairs of dancing feet, 50 pairs of dancing knees, 25 dancing torsos... well, you get it. A nice effect in New York. In Philadelphia most of the audience missed it as the late-late audience blocked the view.
New Yorkers learned to be prompt. Philadelphians learned to be late. It can be taught.
I mention all of this because of a phenomenon I have been documenting for three years. At our parish, we close the doors when the entrance procession forms up and don't let people in until it is half way up the center aisle. That came about after a family embedded itself in the procession and then traffic jammed the whole thing while mama arranged and rearranged who was going to sit with whom in the first two rows. (Which, admittedly, were reserved for them because it was a special occasion. But still, there were supposed to be there when the procession started.)
At our parish we also have an usher count everybody at Mass. That's me at noon. I have found I can double the count when we close the doors to get within one body, plus or minus, of what the final count will be. Today it was 110 at the start of the procession and 220 on the head for the final count. During the winter season, you can double the numbers, but you will still get 220 when the procession starts and 440, plus or minus 1, at the end.
Since I hold the counter, I know who they are. They are precise in their lateness. Some came 15 minutes into the 12:15 Mass until 10 years ago when it was moved to noon. Now they are a predictable 15 minutes late -- or on time for the Mass they used to come late to.
A priest new to the parish preached on the subject once. I told him afterwards that 40 people had missed his admonitions because they came after the homily. He didn't try again.
So my questions are, Is this a Catholic thing? A Florida thing? A generational thing? Or am I just failing to flow?
Mea culpa, mea culpa. We were often late to Catholic mass, largely because of the unpredictable nature of getting three sons who absolutely did NOT want to go to mass, ready for mass.
ReplyDeleteOne of the first things I realized when we joined an Episcopal congregation about 10 years ago was that NOBODY came in late. Except, on occasion, my husband and I, still with RC habits even without sons at home.
The other thing I noticed was that the members of the congregation seemed very devout. No fussing with phones or bulletins or staring around the church to see who was there, or not there, or what people were wearing etc. Very, very prayerful. Most bow their heads when the acolyte carrying the bible passes, both in and out. Everybody sings and there is a lot of music. We go to the more formal mass, Rite I (because it's the latest one) and the hymns are mostly traditional (Mozart, Bach, Haydn etc), some in Latin. The service is 1 1/4 hours, sometimes longer and NOBODY leaves early.
In contemplating the devotion people show in that parish, I came to believe it is simply because they really want to be there. I think one reason too is that they did not grow up being told they would go to hell if they missed mass on Sunday. Sunday liturgy is not an "obligation", but something they do because it comes from their heart.
I suspect that the lack of tardiness in coming to church, and staying all the way until the last note is sung, and the priest says "Go in peace", has something to do with a way of looking at the liturgy as something to cherish, instead of as an "obligation" that people try to reduce to taking up a minimum of their personal time - reducing their time in mass to a legal minimum so that they fulfill their "obligation" and won't go to hell.
Yes. I was afraid someone would say that.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI was an Episcopalian for 26 years, and I saw plenty of gawking, nudging, bulletin fiddling, whispering, and etc.
ReplyDeleteI did not observe leaving after communion, ever, or tardiness, possibly because Sunday school started 15 minutes before the Eucharist. Catholics in my area resist Sunday school, and so are dealing with kids who do not understand or care about what's going on and balk about going.
I find lateness rude and am a bit obsessive about being on time. For that reason, I would never want to be an usher. Too much falling into calumny about latecomers.
Not many people here come in late, but a lot of them roll in during the last five minutes prior. You can always find a seat up front, that's the last one to fill up.
ReplyDeleteNot many leave early, they stay for the little prayer of thanksgiving that we recite after the last hymn. It's the only parish I've been in where they do that. I guess the Fransiscans who used to staff the parish started that custom a hundred years or so ago.
When I was on pastoral council one of the most frequent complaints from parish members was about the people who come late and the people who leave early.
ReplyDeletePart of the problem is that the parish gives people little reason to come early or to stay late. If you come early it is not a quite time for prayer since people are noisily preparing for Mass. Likewise after Mass.
Another parish which I frequent because of its good liturgies has solved much of the problem. The choir practices before Mass in the church; the people like that and so many come early. When a new choir director proposed moving the practice to another location, the parish voted 2 to 1 to keep it where it is.
After Mass there is coffee and donuts in the spacious narthex. So there is not a mad dash for the parking lot. The parish has a room with coat racks so people are encouraged to be more leisurely about their comings and goings.
I'm not a late-comer to Mass, but I don't like to show up really early, because some people in our parish think you have to say a communal rosary beforehand. Not that that's bad, but you can't end with Hail Holy Queen. You've got to say The Rosary Prayer, the Prayer for Vocations, the Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, and an Our Father, a Hail Mary, and a Glory Be for our country, for peace in the world, for storm free weather, and a bountiful harvest. It's all good. There's just a lot of it.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Jesus say that the workers who came late to the vineyard would go to heaven just like the ones who showed up on time?
ReplyDeleteAs the parent of a "live wire" once, I feel for the woman whose brood was late and got caught up in the procession. The disapproving Church Ladies and oldsters are often a discouragement to show up at all.
I like rosaries before Mass. Stops Mrs. Grundy from commenting about who's showing up regularly. Filling the mouths of the critics with prayer is an excellent idea.
One or two late groups qualify as families with "live wires." But when the youngest is 17 or 18, that excuse doesn't cut it. My wife says bus schedules are iffy. Yeah, so when the church starts filling up at 12:10 for the noon Mass, it's a Stephen Sondheim event: "And another hundred people just got off of the bus."
DeleteComing late and leaving early is an issue in our parish, too. I don't know if it's getting worse, but it feels like it is - maybe it just feels that way because there are fewer people now so the latecomers and early leavers are more visible.
ReplyDeleteOne aspect I've heard called out is that promptness is sort of a European virtue that isn't necessarily shared by all cultures.
Another one, which may either complement or substitute for what I've just mentioned, is that people from certain cultures may feel uncomfortable at our mostly-Anglo parish and so come later in order to be more anonymous. Those who hang out in the narthex rather than coming into the church tend to be from those groups.
There are a few young families who are frequent latecomers. I truly don't know what is going on in their households that causes this, but I'd wager that they are not late in getting their children to preschool or elementary school during the week. If I had to guess why they're late to mass, it's that the parents want to minimize the time their children have to be at mass. That opens up another perennially argument-laden topic: what behavior should be expected of children at mass. But I do know that some parents are extremely self-conscious about how their children behave at mass.
We went to different Masses when we had wiggly kids, but we were only a couple of blocks from church. Not everyone can do that. A smart Franciscan nun once told me, "If those kids are baptized, they have the same right to be at Mass that you have." Sometimes I need to remember that.
DeleteJim, perhaps some European cultures prize promptness (Germans?) but not all. The Mediterranean countries of Europe have a more relaxed way of approaching life than most northern European countries. As do most Latinos....
ReplyDeleteI don't know why young kids should have to be at mass to begin with. They neither know nor care about what it is all about, and it becomes a weekly experience of negativism as they are hushed and scolded to act like mini adults instead of little children. But many parishes don't offer child care during mass so minimizing the agony of dealing with young kids at mass may mean coming late and leaving as soon as possible. Older pre-schoolers (3 and 4?) might simply be told they need to learn to sit still when needed so give them a little picture bible or something to help them keep still. But 2 years and younger are too young even for that in my experience. Forcing young kids to sit through mass (and for many, any age before 5 may be too young) simply instills the notion that mass is a form of punishment, so it's no wonder they don't want to go.
Anne, I agree with you that there is really no need for children under 2-4 years to be at Mass. Mine weren't, except once in awhile. However we were fortunate at that time to live near family members who were able and willing to stay with them. And we sometimes did "split shifts". It never has bothered me to go to church by myself. Sometimes I prefer it. It doesn't seem to have affected the kids adversely, both are practicing Catholics.
DeleteI was usually playing piano, so sometimes my wife brought the kids. Sometimes we did split shifts.
DeleteMass is something to which kids need to be acclimatized. I'm definitely not an expert on child development, but I do think that children need to be taught to behave appropriately in public (and in the house for that matter). That doesn't mean you have to spare the rod and spoil the child, and maybe it means you sit there for a while and then give the kid a break - take him/her outside for a while if weather permits, or to the back if there is a narthex or parish hall or basement or some such that they can run around in.
Sorry, didn't say that right - I'm always in favor of sparing the rod, and even moderately spoiling the child.
DeleteMy mom employed a little reverse psychology with me; starting about age four. "If you are very, very good, I might let you go to church with me." And if I wasn't good, it was " Sorry, you have to stay home with Nana and baby brother next time. " I guess it sort of worked.
DeleteKatherine, Did you and I have the same mother?
DeleteI guess I come at this as an outsider who doesn't understand Catholic culture. I have heard umpteen homilies from deacons and priests about their sainted mother's with 30 children who all behaved at Mass or were beaten with a belt buckle and starved when they got home, and by golly, they all turned out to be president!
ReplyDeleteI exaggerate for effect.
However, none of us knows why these people are habitually late or whether they wouldn't show up late for anything but mass.
If this is really bugging you, maybe you could call these people and offer help: I notice you folks are often late for Mass. Can we give you a lift or help with the kids?
And don't underestimate your ability to help. We had lector, retired state cop, who used to invite one of the squirmy kids to sit with him up front. He'd tell the kid to give him a thumbs up if he did the reading OK. The kid's mom, who had other children and whose husband was usually sleeping off a hangover, was deeply appreciative.
How can Catholics evangelize others when they're such critics of each other?
I don't think kids under 10 belong at the entire Mass. Put kids in age appropriate catechises until the offeratory.
Catholic culture...that would depend on which Catholics you're talking to. I agree that we could be more helpful to one another.
DeleteI guess. I'm just feeling that most of the concerns on this thread about lateness and rosaries and the appropriate place, if any, to insert prayers about sex abuse are just super petty.
DeleteThe liturgy was made for people to connect with God so they could better do God's work. The liturgy is not an entertainment, and I always assumed that Jesus would want us to welcome the clods of the earth as well as those who understand the etiquette of a New York stage show.
My question: Are the folks who come late to Mass,late for everything in life? Or are they punctual people who only come late to Mass?
ReplyDeleteI think people have always come late to Mass (I think I once heard it "counts", back when people still worried about their Sunday obligation, so long as you get there by the Readings. And people always left after Communion.
I assume people have their reasons, and not knowing the specifics, give them the benefit of the doubt its good ones. But if there are people who just come late or leave early on purpose, yeah, that's inconsiderate, just like people you're meeting for dinner who routinely show up late for no good reason.