Wednesday, October 11, 2017
Harvey Weinstein
Rachel Maddow discusses Harvey Weinstein (and Trump) and interviews journalist Ronan Farrow about his New Yorker article: From Aggressive Overtures to Sexual Assault: Harvey Weinstein’s Accusers Tell Their Stories ...
I first heard of Ronan Farrow when he wrote an essay in The Hollywood Reporter about his sister's allegations against their father, Woody Allen .... My Father, Woody Allen, and the Danger of Questions Unasked (Guest Column)
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There is something bizarre and troubling about this whole thing. It appears everybody who had anything to do with Weinstein knew of his reprehensible behavior, but with the disclosure of it to the general public, it is now expected for all those who knew to publicly condemn him.
ReplyDeleteThere's a question in my mind about how many times a "serial sexual harasser" should be able to pay off his victims to keep quiet, and there's also a question as to when it's the right thing to do to accept a private settlement. I very much don't want to engage in blaming the victim, but clearly it does not deter a rich serial offender to privately accept a monetary settlement. If Weinstein were a rapist instead of a "harasser," would we think it was acceptable for his victims to be paid off?
I know the above is very unsatisfactory, and it is extremely difficult to say anything rational about such a hot-button issue aside from joining in the chorus of condemnations. I haven't read anything about the whole mess that strikes me as thoughtful, dispassionate, and wise. But it strikes me there is something more to be said than that Weinstein was a bad man and that anyone who had any connection with him must now condemn him publicly.
I think you make some good points, David.
DeleteI don't very often find myself agreeing with the conservative columnist, Cal Thomas. But I did read an article of his this morning on the Weinstein thing that made some valid points. He said, in part: "Denunciations of Weinstein are coming from all quarters of the political spectrum, though the Hollywood crowd has been mostly silent. His critics presuppose a standard by which such behavior can be judged. But we are ridding ourselves of most standards faster than a snake sheds its skin. What did we expect the outcome to look like?"
Weinstein is of course guilty of his own actions. But the culture bears some responsibility. People were cynically willing to be oblivious to what was not even a secret in order to advance their own careers. Gee, does that remind us of any parellels in politics?
I think now he has been accused of three rapes.
DeleteBut yeah, I don't like the idea of making settlements that include the victim keeping silent - the Catholic church made tons of these kinds of settlements with sex abuse victims.
Some guy on the news did ask 'what the rules are' but I think it's pretty clear - some things are just illegal, like unwanted touching and workplace sexual harassment. Proving stuff is the hard part.
What I take away from all this is that human nature is really disappointing. The Greeks said 'the powerful do what they will and the weak suffer what they must' .... still true a lot of the time.
DeleteI have never been that impressed with Woody Allen, except he did have some memorable one-liners. I have been totally done with watching any of his stuff after the scandal with his step-daughter. And the story about Dylan, how tragic! A dirty old man basically ruined a girl's life.
ReplyDeleteI used to like his funny movies long ago until I heard the allegations against him. I haven't seen any of his films for a long time. He just gives me the creeps now.
DeleteThe basic problem is that the very rich are not accountable to the law and they know it. Trump said he could shoot someone out on Fifth Avenue and get away with it and that stars can do anything when it comes to sexual behavior.
ReplyDeleteWe should not only tax the rich, we should have heavy penalties for them when they break the law, e.g. losing all their money and living a subsistence life on some remote penal island.
The very rich only begin to become accountable when most of their peers are convinced that is the only way to satisfy the public.
Yes, I agree. It's people or organizations who are powerful too. I think the one thing that helps make these people accountable is wide public reporting about what they have done = that's what made the difference with the church and the cover-up of sex abuse.
DeleteI just don't care, I'm afraid. Harvey Weinstein, the unfortunately named Anthony Wiener, Elliot Spitzer, Bill Cosby, Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, Clarence Thomas. These guys are horn dogs, some of them perhaps to a criminal extent. There are laws. They should be punished. If women choose not to come forward or agree to a private settlement, it's hard for me to sympathize. We have bigger worries in this country than whether a Hollywood mogul felt up a starlet years ago. I don't know what was going on with the local news anchor in front of whom Weinstein reportedly masturbated, but I presume she was in a room with a door, and, unless it was locked or he had her tied up or was otherwise forcibly preventing her from leaving, I don't know why she didn't walk out or scream her head off.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why all these superannuated horn dogs are such a buzz now, when we are closer to nuclear war than we have been any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis. Please tell me they didn't give Trump the real codes.
DeleteWeinstein is a big man and from the articles I read, a lot of women were physically intimidated by him when he was assaulting them.
ReplyDeleteI know that very little seems important when compared with getting nuked, but some of his victims were raped. I think the more this stuff gets out in public, maybe the less it will be covered up and continue.
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ReplyDeleteSure it should come out. As part of a court trial. Taylor Swift took her guy court. Outed Mueller through channels and that seemed like enough for her. She was not, interested in attention seeking on Megan Kelly's show.
ReplyDeleteAnd what do condemnations from Famous Actresses do other than put them in the spotlight in little roles of Upright Outrage? Are they just hearing about Weinstein now? Or have they kept it secret and now that others are coming forward are expiating their silence by making statements. Judi Dench called Weinstein's actions "horrific" before the rape allegations were made.
Really? In the wake of Las Vegas, Puerto Ricco, the loss of CHIP, the crackdown on free speech by NFL players, this is horrific?
Let the criminal investigation be vigorously pursued. Bit it's the courts who decide his fate, not Entertainment Tonight.
I'd never even heard his name before all this came up. Maybe, because no criminal case is going forward, his only "trial" will be in the press.
ReplyDeleteI would not belittle rape or want these crimes to be covered up. I am reacting to major news sites which have had Weinstein as their lead article for at least 3 days now.
ReplyDeleteI am wondering about the non-disclosure agreements folks like Weinstein get victims to sign when they pay them off. It seems to put the victim in the position of a blackmailer. Which would make the offender a victim of blackmail? Only in America...
ReplyDeleteYoung Russ Douthat touted Weinstein as an example of liberal piggery. I had to wonder if Ailes and O'Reilly were guilty of liberal piggery then, or if there is some kind of conservative piggery that isn't as piggish. Then I remembered who is president.
I agree with Katherine. I have heard all I ever want to about Harvey. If he goes to prison, I won't shed a tear. But he has money so he won't. And whatever happens to him, the next rich guy with a little power is still at it, and his name is Legion.
Tom, I think there are lots of examples where victims of a powerful person or institution end up making a deal where they have to keep silent about what happened.
DeleteThe Catholic church made many of these kinds of deals with sex abuse victims. One example is that of Cardinal Sean Brady of Ireland, in which the children had to take an oath not to tell anyone what had happened, not even their parents ... http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-17894419
PS - when the Boston Globe investigated sex abuse under Cardinal Law, they found that numerous sex abuse victims had made these kinds of deals with the church in which they had to remain silent.
DeleteYeah, that seems to be an SOP if you have the money and power: Put up some money in exchange for keeping the victim from going to the cops or the media. In addition to the original crime, you are now paying for a cover up, obstructing justice and generally being a bad citizen. And there are usually members of the Bar on both sides of these deals. And, yes, including the Church.
DeleteSpeaking of which, there's an article at America magazine about the church and Weinstein - Five things Hollywood could learn from the Catholic Church after Harvey Weinstein
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