tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post4637795103725170645..comments2024-03-28T08:00:17.624-04:00Comments on NewGathering: Some thoughts on DIY weddingsDavid Nickolhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17769931102661478298noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-34857033293195866652019-09-20T14:09:13.665-04:002019-09-20T14:09:13.665-04:00Thanks for the link, Jim. IMO they're trying t...Thanks for the link, Jim. IMO they're trying too hard to understand it. Sometimes a piece about a funeral is about (surprise), death. And fear of death. That last icy cold line, "And Finished knowing -then-". That's the fear that this is all there is, and when it's over, it's over. As John Donne put it, "I have a sin of fear, that when I have spun My last thread, I shall perish on the shore..."Katherine Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08309113327087187334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-45550487542557796572019-09-20T11:53:52.194-04:002019-09-20T11:53:52.194-04:00She (Emily) always leaves me feeling less secure i...She (Emily) always leaves me feeling less secure in my sanity coming out than I was going in.Jim Pauwelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11145374996943982385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-88773272532703900842019-09-20T11:52:09.158-04:002019-09-20T11:52:09.158-04:00Katherine, thanks for that Emily Dickinson referen...Katherine, thanks for that Emily Dickinson reference. I hadn't read it before. Here it is, along with one attempt to explicate it. I'd summarize it as, "Nobody really knows for certain what the hell it means." But still well worth reading - the imagery is arresting.<br /><br />https://interestingliterature.com/2016/11/01/a-short-analysis-of-emily-dickinsons-i-felt-a-funeral-in-my-brain/<br />Jim Pauwelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11145374996943982385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-55787603198077355262019-09-20T11:26:27.192-04:002019-09-20T11:26:27.192-04:00Makes me think of Emily Dickinson's "I fe...Makes me think of Emily Dickinson's "I felt a funeral in my brain..." Not one of my favorites , the last stanza being pretty bleak.Katherine Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08309113327087187334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-4760428691724915192019-09-20T09:35:18.603-04:002019-09-20T09:35:18.603-04:00"I hope by that time that I am done caring ab..."I hope by that time that I am done caring about that stuff."<br /><br />Same.Jim Pauwelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11145374996943982385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-13797350821592023122019-09-19T23:21:43.055-04:002019-09-19T23:21:43.055-04:00I understand that the funeral in my head will like...I understand that the funeral in my head will likely bear no resemblance to the funeral I will get. I hope by that time that I am done caring about that stuff. I really like that Newman prayer. I'm going to work it into my Compline devotions.Jeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14702081408526023197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-18952002299033198612019-09-19T20:07:14.555-04:002019-09-19T20:07:14.555-04:00The Trappist abbey sounds like a lovely place. And...The Trappist abbey sounds like a lovely place. And your funeral plan sounds like a simple, dignified ceremony.Katherine Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08309113327087187334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-34245243700260593942019-09-19T13:05:22.996-04:002019-09-19T13:05:22.996-04:00Katherine: Don't know why we would have heart ...Katherine: <em>Don't know why we would have heart failure!</em><br /><br />Maybe because the hymns suggested by most here were those like The Trumpet Shall Sound? <br /><br />The idea of the ashes being enclosed in jewelry...... oh dear.<br /><br />I don't like embalming or open caskets. The Jews and Muslims bury their dead as soon as possible - usually within 24 hours of death. <br /><br />I will instruct my survivors to keep me on ice until I can be buried in the natural cemetery of a Trappist Abbey in nearby Virginia - no vault, and I think no casket is actually required. Burial in a shroud, in a beautiful natural place, with only close family and a half-dozen handpicked friends invited - a simple, private service with readings selected ahead of time. Someone to say a prayer. One hymn sung by a good vocalist without accompaniment (don't know which hymn yet)...a place where I my earthly remains would rest in peace.<br /><br />No newspaper announcements, no obituary. No eulogy. But a lovely lunch or dinner in one of the beautiful country restaurants near the Abbey. My family and friends can then exchange stories, and, hopefully laugh more than they cry.<br /><br />I visit the Abbey about once a year. More often if there is turmoil in my life. It is serene, peaceful, beautiful - a truly holy place that "restoreth the soul". I usually go at a time when I can attend the sung Vespers after a couple of hours of sitting in silence in God's presence, surrounded by the magnificence of God's creation. No church, no cathedral, no work of art or piece of music conveys the wonder of God the way the natural world does. Francis knows this too.<br /><br />So much peace and beauty and serenity - only a little more than an hour from our home, but a different world completely.<br /><br />https://www.virginiatrappists.org/cemetery/<br /><br />John Newman's brief prayer says everything that I need as prayer when laid to my final rest.<br /><br /><em>May He support us all the day long, till the shades lengthen, and the evening comes, and the busy world is hushed, and the fever of life is over, and our work is done! Then in His mercy may He give us safe lodging, and a holy rest, and peace at the last</em><br /><br />Anne Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16206575088455015078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-89958958382739952542019-09-18T15:28:35.852-04:002019-09-18T15:28:35.852-04:00Had lunch with a friend who suggested selling it a...Had lunch with a friend who suggested selling it and donating the proceeds to an anti gun-violence group. I like that idea. <br /><br />Oh, yeah, forgot Chuck Connors played baseball.Jeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14702081408526023197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-71391190127595731522019-09-18T12:41:55.194-04:002019-09-18T12:41:55.194-04:00Chuck Connors could do wonderful things with that ...Chuck Connors could do wonderful things with that gun and retakes. He was a pretty fair first baseman for the Cubs while he was doing that, too.tom blackburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09617525711233538704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-61537481073431429742019-09-18T12:37:01.427-04:002019-09-18T12:37:01.427-04:00Jean, I hope your wedding back-stabbings are some ...Jean, I hope your wedding back-stabbings are some kind of Michigan thing. It's probably the water.tom blackburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09617525711233538704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-56019792242410707342019-09-18T11:42:12.142-04:002019-09-18T11:42:12.142-04:00Katherine is right. Not a murder machine except m...Katherine is right. Not a murder machine except maybe for varmints. Stanley Kopaczhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12133446714376982656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-90486155194628337342019-09-18T10:44:59.586-04:002019-09-18T10:44:59.586-04:00Sorry to hear about your uncle's passing, Jean...Sorry to hear about your uncle's passing, Jean.<br />If everybody stuck with 1940 Winchester rifles instead of Ak-7s, they couldn't carry out mass shootings. You have to do what you think is best about the rifle, but if it were me, I would sell it to a collector with a good reputation. Then use the money to do something you want to do, and lift a toast to your uncle.Katherine Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08309113327087187334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-60227819476548742022019-09-18T10:31:24.576-04:002019-09-18T10:31:24.576-04:00My uncle's memorial service was Saturday, and ...My uncle's memorial service was Saturday, and I was shocked to be given a Ziploc bag of what I estimate to be about a third of his ashes. I know it's not kosher by church standards, but I'm taking them to his favorite trout stream to scatter. The DNR said they have no objections as long.<br />as "you don't make a habit of it." (?)<br /><br />I also ended up with his model 94 Winchester lever action rifle ca 1940. (Like on The Rifleman!) I can hardly lift it. Raber wants to chop it up so it can never be used. But it's worth some money, so I am deeply conflicted.<br /><br />We are each other's joys and burdens.Jeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14702081408526023197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-32440708257855823182019-09-18T10:17:25.330-04:002019-09-18T10:17:25.330-04:00Turns out Amazon has a plethora of options for wea...Turns out Amazon has <a href="https://www.amazon.com/s?k=cremation+jewelry+for+ashes&crid=1E6G10CRUAQLF&sprefix=cremation%2Caps%2C218&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_9" rel="nofollow">a plethora</a> of options for wearable ashes (gives a new meaning to sackcloth and ashes?). Or, if one would prefer, the departed's ashes can be turned into <a href="https://www.spiritpieces.com/?msclkid=be75b6319830195a3d19ebb3a3b5673b&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=**BING%20WIDE%20AND%20OPEN%20CHEAP%202&utm_term=turning%20ashes%20into%20crystals&utm_content=Cremation" rel="nofollow">crystalline art forms</a>. I actually prefer these options to scattering the ashes. As for divvying up ashes 36 ways, Catholics don't have much room to criticize, given our habit of parting out saint relics like a vintage Mustang in a salvage yard.<br />Katherine Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08309113327087187334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-63092937512872822242019-09-18T10:14:06.171-04:002019-09-18T10:14:06.171-04:00Should be: "that isn't in your" will...Should be: "that isn't in your" will will be ignored..." I might add that it's the law in Florida that the survivors wishes supersede anything that isn't written down and attested to.<br />tom blackburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09617525711233538704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-9603426436936266762019-09-18T09:03:55.238-04:002019-09-18T09:03:55.238-04:00DIY funerals, it turns out, are all the rage in Fl...DIY funerals, it turns out, are all the rage in Florida. Or whatever. One of my favorites was the one in which Grandma's ashes were split up 26 different ways and stuffed into lockets, earrings and bracelets. The 26 proud owners of Grandma wanted to process up the aisle with their Granny bling. The pastor said it wouldn't be necessary.<br /><br />Of course now Granny will go trough 26 Dumpsters on her way to her final repose.<br /><br />The subject of DIY funerals (or not) came up at the men's group this morning. The operations manager of the big Catholic cemetery is a member, and two deacons. They just happened to swap stories.<br /><br />In the past six years, the cemetery has interred more than 1,000 boxes of ashes the family paid for but didn't want to mess with finding a funeral plot for. Sometimes there is reconciliation and the family wants Granny's ashes. A couple of times a year, one priest comes out and conducts an interment ceremony for a bunch of them.<br /><br />And anything you want that isn't in your rule will be ignored by the ruling survivor.<br />Among the things I learned today.tom blackburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09617525711233538704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-12157849009482876262019-09-18T08:20:32.206-04:002019-09-18T08:20:32.206-04:00I don't think we were Norman Rockwell-esque (t...I don't think we were Norman Rockwell-esque (that was more eastern, Protestant, and not ranch/farm). But my mom had a charism of hospitality. My husband's family was much smaller, and not as close with one another. After my mother-in-law was a widow, Mom always invited her to Thanksgiving, as well as any guests of us kids, and any stray relatives who were at loose ends.Katherine Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08309113327087187334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-44839723281856484652019-09-18T07:55:33.326-04:002019-09-18T07:55:33.326-04:00Just mention the title, "And the Trumpet Shal...Just mention the title, "And the Trumpet Shall Sound", and I get goosebumps.Stanley Kopaczhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12133446714376982656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-64644348898427857222019-09-17T23:58:16.350-04:002019-09-17T23:58:16.350-04:00Anne- many thanks, I always appreciate your perspe...Anne- many thanks, I always appreciate your perspective, and you always write it so clearly.<br /><br />I don't know if my family was a Norman Rockwell family (we were Catholic, after all :-)), but you're right that I grew up in a two-parent household. We had issues, problems, stresses - I am sure all families do, although some more so than others, and I don't want to trivialize the really permanently wounding things that happen to some family members. For some reason I seem to have emerged from my family experience more unscathed than some of my siblings.<br /><br />My siblings all are scattered now. As a matter of fact, three of them have migrated to California :-). We text, but that's kind of superficial. It's difficult to get everyone together. <br /><br />My mother celebrated her 80th birthday earlier this year and we sensed she was disappointed that more of the children didn't come in for the celebration. But everyone's busy (as in the old song "Cats in the Cradle"), travel is expensive, and so on. My mother is one who really has worked hard to cultivate and maintain ties with her extended families (on both her mom's and dad's sides) - she still regales me with news of cousins of hers and their descendants, but honestly I can't keep track of who is related to whom, which former husband is the father of which child, etc. And it is hard work to keep up with a family. I think one of her secrets is writing letters (old-fashioned snail mail). There is something about a letter that makes for communication that is qualitatively different, even from an email. Or so it seems to me. <br /><br />In the last three years, I've been invited to two family reunions, one on my mom's side (in Indiana which is where her dad is from; they're all Protestant and some of them don't drink, so there was no beer at this family reunion - what kind of a family reunion is that?!), and on my dad's side in my hometown in Michigan (that's the more overtly ethnic part of my family - all the drink one could wish for). There is a lot to be said for those get-togethers, I think.<br />Jim Pauwelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11145374996943982385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-52017506880397568742019-09-17T22:40:58.127-04:002019-09-17T22:40:58.127-04:00Katherine and Jean - I'm glad you like the hym...Katherine and Jean - I'm glad you like the hymn. It's one of my favorites and expresses my personal beliefs on who the "real" saints are (often not those who are the canonized!)<br /><br />Jim: <em>the upshot is the same: the two extended families are now affiliated, both legally and socially. The joining of husband and wife has social implications beyond the two spouses.</em><br /><br />Well, I'm not sure that anyone in the families are joined legally except for the married couple themselves. <br /><br />I think that we all bring our own personal experience and backgrounds to these matters. It has been my sense that Jim P and Katherine grew up in pretty Norman Rockwell kinds of family environments. Maybe Tom also, at least the Catholic version of it.. Jean and I did not. Our families were more dysfunctional.<br /><br />I know that I have lots of cousins in California, but I have no idea who they are, where they live, or anything about them - except for one cousin on my mother's side. Mom was one of four, my father was the youngest of nine. So, there are more cousins out there somewhere. As you might surmise, the families were not close - not even the members of the same nuclear families. <br /><br />So, I did not grow up with a model of two families joined at the hip legally and socially when their kids married. I did not even know families like you describe even among my friends. Calif was a state of immigrants. Both my parents were born in Calif and grew up there. Their parents had moved west, but none of their parents' sibs or extended family did the same. This was typical of Californians for a very long time.<br /><br />In one of my college classes, the prof asked how many of us had been born in California. There were two of us - out of 45. Most people left their families of origin somewhere to the east of California, and so big, connected families were pretty rare. No culturally ethnic parishes either, except for the Mexican parishes downtown. No Irish, Polish, German, Italian etc parishes Just a big mishmash of everyone from everywhere.<br /><br />I am still in contact with the one cousin I knew growing up though and usually have seen her when in LA. ;) <br /><br />I grew up in CA, my husband grew up in MD. Needless to say, after we married, his family and mine did not socialize much. I think maybe my mother and my husband's parents had a family dinner with us 6-8 times, over a roughly 20 year period. They ALL died in 1992 (and that was the end of the socializing.<br /><br />Our oldest son and his family live in LA. His wife's mother lives in Florida. We have seen her once since the wedding 7 years ago - a few years ago in Florida. Our youngest lives in Sydney. His wife is French. So, although we feel we are fairly compatible with her parents on a social basis (and they speak fluent English), they live across an ocean from us. We have seen them for a few days at a time, as guests in their home, twice since the wedding in 2015. We see our middle son's family a bit more often since they live next door to our son and his family. They are Viet Namese, and they are part of a HUGE extended clan of Viet Namese Catholics - relatives and non-relatives. But, we aren't in San Jose more than a couple of times/year, their accents are thick and with my hearing loss I have great difficulty understanding them. They are lovely people, but even if we lived there, I doubt seriously that we would socialize with them very often outside of the kids' events maybe.<br /><br />But even if all of our children lived in the DC area, and all of their own nuclear families did too, I don't think that it's wise to assume that the two families will be close - "legally and socially". If everyone can behave at least at shared family events (kids birthdays etc), that's probably as good as it gets in most families, brought together occasionally through the marriage of their children.<br />Anne Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16206575088455015078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-8875205145140192072019-09-17T21:12:57.392-04:002019-09-17T21:12:57.392-04:00The best souvenir of our wedding, all these years ...The best souvenir of our wedding, all these years later, is the guest book that everyone signed. So many of the people are gone now, more of them than are still alive. My grandparents, parents-in-law, aunts and uncles. My paternal grandma was in charge of riding herd on my little sister. She was only three, and managed to sign an E (her initial) under grandma's signature. Now she is 50. It doesn't seem like all that time went by. I still remember that it was 95 degrees in the shade. My husband was 25, I was 21. We thought we were grown up (we weren't, not all the way). And yes, it was about two families that were affiliated from that day forward.<br />Katherine Nielsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08309113327087187334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-82139804304449537962019-09-17T20:05:17.766-04:002019-09-17T20:05:17.766-04:00>>At funerals, everyone is thinking s/he sho...>>At funerals, everyone is thinking s/he should have been nicer to the deceased and is atoning by being nice to everyone else.<<<br /><br />Whaaa? I have seen more backstabbing and nastiness at funerals than anywhere. Family may not be all together again, so last chance for the grudges and grievances to come out and get a good showing.Jeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14702081408526023197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-22561295483474922622019-09-17T19:25:24.782-04:002019-09-17T19:25:24.782-04:00Yeah, it's the couple's wedding. That'...Yeah, it's the couple's wedding. That's why one of my favorite priests prefers doing funerals. At weddings, something does not go perrrrrfectly, and someone -- usually the bride or her mother -- is devastated and needs everyone to know it. At funerals, everyone is thinking s/he should have been nicer to the deceased and is atoning by being nice to everyone else.tom blackburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09617525711233538704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1315362208709650810.post-70827189975288289492019-09-17T19:16:11.546-04:002019-09-17T19:16:11.546-04:00Katherine, Sing "The Trumpet Shall Sound"...Katherine, Sing "The Trumpet Shall Sound"?! Probably not impossible. But where, even in a big city, would one find a trumpet virtuoso who could handle it? I do love the thought.tom blackburnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09617525711233538704noreply@blogger.com